Title: An Organizer whom does not Honor his Words.

[SharpShooterZ]

I did that to him once... but only $10, and share with another photographer, so 5 each.
:bsmilie: :bsmilie:

Haha u still remember. Which reminds me i still owe you 5$ from that time :sweat:

Anyways, i dont want to get involved here but while we on the subject....last time this Ed is famous for asking models to do TFCD shoots with him.....then he gather us photographers telling us that its actually a "paid" shoot. So, we actually paying him 100% while the models gets NOTHING. Zero. Zilch. Nada...

The models that day then complain to us and refused to continue the shoot because they felt cheated by ed. After a while, we managed to settle with the models, but Ed still insist that we still had to pay him off because he already "wasting his time" for bringing the models over. (Geez, we should be the one asking for compesation btw, lucky that time we havent paid him yet. So he got away with 10$ only and we paid the models directly)

This is not the first time he done this btw, you can ask other photographers/models as well.

 

[night86mare]

In short, clubsnap appears sleazy because pictures coming from its members ARE sleazy. Don't blame it on other forums.

i will be fair on this one.

there are sleazy pictures coming for clubsnappers, yes..

but no, i have seen some of these funny things going on (mainly in hwz, where leeching is also done), not all these are sleazy. it is like what they say, if there is filth in the mind, anything goes. even an innocent picture of an innocent schoolgirl can be great er, midnight entertainment material for a filthy-minded pervert. it doesn't really matter how sleazy the material is, the mind is a powerful thing.

anyways, that said, i do hope that our members take the effort to polish up their photograph and not just shoot models/females just to socialise, try to get numbers, date them, buy green tea for them, give them prints. sometimes, we have to ask ourselves what we are, camera socialisers? or photographers? if we are PHOTOGRAPHers, then the emphasis are on the photographs, delivering them well, and in good form, and giving the effort to improve.. that is what we want.

if you are a camera socialiser who jsut wants to snap pretty girls and nosebleed after that.. then at the very least, admit it, and you can stop bothering from posting up pictures after a while, since no one will be able to appreciate them except perhaps yourself, or like minded camera socialisers looking for potential dates.

cheers.

 

[liarliar]

Once a freelance model i will not say very professional i met for the first time told me about her experience with someone whom called her for TFCD but once at location a lot of GWC there she felt very cheated also.

But really want to read their minds i mean take so many photos of the same mollers over and over again for what use? Post at Sammyboyforums? :bsmilie:

 

[thelighter]

I have seen some of CS's model nude photos in sammyboy picture exchange section too. But not sure who posted. :bigeyes::bigeyes::bigeyes: Even I heard the organized used this photos to control his models and sent to others via online too.

 

[HeiPiGu]

I have seen some of CS's model nude photos in sammyboy picture exchange section too. But not sure who posted. :bigeyes::bigeyes::bigeyes: Even I heard the organized used this photos to control his models and sent to others via online too.

Another 0 post count mystery poster. What were you doing in Sammyboy's picture exchange section in the first place?? :dunno: :nono:

 

[bEnd1ck]

Haha u still remember. Which reminds me i still owe you 5$ from that time :sweat:

Anyways, i dont want to get involved here but while we on the subject....last time this Ed is famous for asking models to do TFCD shoots with him.....then he gather us photographers telling us that its actually a "paid" shoot. So, we actually paying him 100% while the models gets NOTHING. Zero. Zilch. Nada...

The models that day then complain to us and refused to continue the shoot because they felt cheated by ed. After a while, we managed to settle with the models, but Ed still insist that we still had to pay him off because he already "wasting his time" for bringing the models over. (Geez, we should be the one asking for compesation btw, lucky that time we havent paid him yet. So he got away with 10$ only and we paid the models directly)

This is not the first time he done this btw, you can ask other photographers/models as well.

Wah bro, so fast replied. I didn't know that you are watching this thread too. haha.
No worries about the small sum bro. Or maybe buy me a coke the next time we shoot together.
So it seems the organiser has improved slightly eh? From paying nothing, to just underpaying. haha. Well done!
Besides my own experience, and tracy's encounter here, I've heard complaints from a few other models with similar bad experiences. . I think its happening too often to always blame it on miscommunication.

 

[Cheesecake]

I have seen some of CS's model nude photos in sammyboy picture exchange section too. But not sure who posted. :bigeyes::bigeyes::bigeyes: Even I heard the organized used this photos to control his models and sent to others via online too.

CS do not have organised nude fotoshoots.


if yes, pls provide us with the relevant evidence. we will look into it.

 

[Rashkae]

CS do not have organised nude fotoshoots.


if yes, pls provide us with the relevant evidence. we will look into it.

There are a lot... Just a search for "Nude" in the photoshoots section will get results.

 

[night86mare]

There are a lot... Just a search for "Nude" in the photoshoots section will get results.

not nowadays, i think.

see this

this

and this

 

[Cheesecake]

There are a lot... Just a search for "Nude" in the photoshoots section will get results.

show me such nude fotoshoot threads if there are. show me.


now. not before the TNP incident.

 

[Cheesecake]

ClubSnap have stopped allowing fotoshoots that feature nude models, or those whom we feel are too inappropriate in terms of concept, attire etc, ever since the sensationalisation of the TNP-Averral Incident.

we have been trying our best to moderate n regulate all fotoshoots but if there is any, that somehow slipped off the net, do inform us. we will see to it that the appropriate actions are handed out.

 

[sunshinetracy]

1) - Title: An Organizer whom does not Honor his Words.

"To All:
It’s not about the Money Issue that brings me to write this Thread. However, it’s the words being promised, but never being honored and the lies that he has said.
P/S: All SMS’ being stated below are saved in my HP as History Evidence."

As stated on the start of my story, this thread is not created to “quarrel” about the $20, but is the words one man said and that he should honor. Over the years, being an organizer, if he can underpay my session, what about the rest of the girls? And if I never reveal his acts, this incident will be a never-ending issue.

***********************************************

(#40) – Artemis
“The photo shoot event was of a 2 part series in which the first hour was a fashion theme outdoor and the other is a lingerie theme indoor. As the group of photographers turn up early on 25th July morning I were informed that the main model was unable to attend and the second model was sick…

At about 10:30am the group decided to do the indoor theme which is at a nearby hotel. Checkin to first room and started almost at 1045am and continue fashion shoot for remaining half hour for Juan. Tracey arrived and i pay the cab fare for her."

All this while, during preparation, I was not aware that the So Called OUTDOOR shoot will move Indoor. Being a Responsible Model, once I agreed for photo shoot, it’s my nature to honor my words and proceed. For 2 models to “Back out” so suddenly when Shoots are organized for them, won’t they worry that its will ruin their reputation in a Way? Unless, they have heard or realized something is not right in the first place.

"After half hour, the models swap room. Due to some break time and delay the shoot may seem like 1.5 hours and instead of 1 hour in the room."

This photo session continued WITHOUT any Break-time, and only 5mins or less to change to next outfits.

“I sincerely apologised for what has happened and don't hestitate to contact me if you feel that I did not honour my words. I am willing to top up $20 more if the time has exceeded your hour to 1.5 hour.”

All the explanation stated, was very obvious that from beginning to end, he has not realized the words that he should honor. Will a Model create this Thread, just because to Demand for this $20?? Won’t I worry that it will ruin my Reputation in CS? It’s all about principles one should have. Come to think about it, if I was being underpaying for this Incident, over the years as an organizer, how many girls he had underpaid in every session too? And I have learnt from other Models that they have similar experiences too.

***********************************************

(#60) – Happyfrog
“short paid... the hours not clearly defined. organizer's fault on that for not defining the time paid. but for only 20 dollars? model shouldn't blow things up la. if it's 1000s of dollars, then different case. but it's weird some of my friends would just let it go. maybe weak case? i don't know.”

As mentioned in the Thread header, this thread is created, not about the money issue. Will a model created this issue big, just because of this money? There is reputation for one, to continue in the line of modeling. Over the past few years as an organizer, he has gotten away for underpaying the models, if one never stood up to mention about this issue, won’t he continue with this acts? Please look thru the rest of acts written from the rest of photographers, all the deeds he has done.

***********************************************

(#37) – happy ranchu
"2) I don't remember any request not to post any photo on CS. i remember you have requested us to PM you the link. anyway have not started editing the photos so no chance to upload to my flickr acc. yet. when done will PM you for permission to post at CS with the link from my flickr acc."

(#48) – Rashkae
"To Tracy:
I'm actually surprised at your "Don't post without my permission" request. In a paid shoot, the photogs own the pics, they can do what they want. The most you could hope for is that the nicer ones will agree to let you "veto" any pics, but realistically, they have no reason to ask you for permission."

(#63) – Spiker
"but seems like he already had the indoor shoot planned for 2nd place of shoot.. despite the organizing post that it will be outdoor... and i believe the model is specific for outdoor shots?.. but ended up at the location already?.. so what to do?.. now waste taxi fare going up and down the place?.. who will really fork out the $$ for that now?.."

(#67) – nemesis32
"For me there's 2 issues that should be highlighted. 1 is that the model needs to approve the photos prior to posting.. i think this is not quite right. Sure, if it's out of courtesy but photographer has no such obligation since they have paid the compensation by joining the shoot. If it's TFCD, unless the model explicitly says her approval is required, otherwise the photographer has the rights to the pics and the model is the one who should ask the photographer for permission to use in future blogs, shoots etc".

Being a model, I understand that it’s rightful for photographers to post up the photos. Especially, its will boost up the Model’s popularity in CS. She will be well-known by many more, and might increase on more enquiries for photo-taking. Its will be an Advantage for her... Why not?

However, due to this Special incident, I was being called down for this “OUTDOOR” Shoot, without knowing that its will “Suddenly” change to Indoor. This shouldn’t be the way, as the Organizer has already planned for the major shoots to be Indoor. If I would have known that its will be an Indoor shoot, I would have turned down this offer.

Being born in a Strict Family Background, with photos that are too expose or shooting indoor (hotel), this is will call to my End of Modeling career. Despite
Knowing the “Final” Location, I will have to honor my words to do this Shooting.
Under this special circumstance, asking for photos viewing before posting up is to minimize the cases to happen in my modeling passion. One should have their right to proceed what they want in life. Don’t you agree?

Despite stating in my Thread, and even our Agreement Form, I have mentioned that I won’t be doing any Lingerie Assignment. However, Artemis keeps on pestering me to do, and saying that he will be able to get many Assignment for me during weekday. Doesn’t he understand what I’m trying to say.. about NOT doing any Lingerie outfits?

Lastly, I will urge All models whom has Similar Experience with Artemis, to come forwards and share their experience in this Thread. Thanks.

 

[sunshinetracy]

My Apoloyise, I really can't figure how to use the Multi-Quote to reply Msg... Please advise.. Thanks..

 

[Cartman2000]

Under this special circumstance, asking for photos viewing before posting up is to minimize the cases to happen in my modeling passion. One should have their right to proceed what they want in life. Don’t you agree?

The photographers paid money for the shoot, and they have the ultimate rights to the photos. Even if you get shot on the street by a street photographer, he is by no means obliged to delete the photo upon request, though most of them will do it out of goodwill. To be very blunt, they could post up all the shots of you if they so desired, and you'd be unable to stop them.

 

[bengchiat]

I cannot assess sammyboy forums - somehow my dad had my computer lock away from connectivity to adult and sites that encourage sexual acts and activities. :think:

just curious,
is he training u to be a monk?
or is that a lie, u liarliar

anyway,
whats wrong WITH THE OTHER FORUM?
put ur hands up,
all those who don't visit THE OTHER FORUM or similar.
i know for a fact that 4 of my mates from CS r a registered member there.

 

[bengchiat]

not nowadays, i think.

see this

this

and this

LOL!

i was drooling b4 the new window pops out.
now must head on down to THE OTHER FORUM!

 

[limwhow]

To Tracy:

I'm actually surprised at your "Don't post without my permission" request. In a paid shoot, the photogs own the pics, they can do what they want. The most you could hope for is that the nicer ones will agree to let you "veto" any pics, but realistically, they have no reason to ask you for permission.

The photographers paid money for the shoot, and they have the ultimate rights to the photos. Even if you get shot on the street by a street photographer, he is by no means obliged to delete the photo upon request, though most of them will do it out of goodwill. To be very blunt, they could post up all the shots of you if they so desired, and you'd be unable to stop them.

I totally agree with the above.
As had been discussed in a recent thread, the model release regulation does not apply strictly in Singapore as in, say, US or UK. So if the model is being paid, then the rights go to the photographer.
It is almost impossible, not to mention vaguely naive, to request all the photographers to ask for permission from the model before posting.
In saying the above, I come purely from a photographer's point of view.

 

[sunshinetracy]

The photographers paid money for the shoot, and they have the ultimate rights to the photos. Even if you get shot on the street by a street photographer, he is by no means obliged to delete the photo upon request, though most of them will do it out of goodwill. To be very blunt, they could post up all the shots of you if they so desired, and you'd be unable to stop them.

I totally agree with the above.
As had been discussed in a recent thread, the model release regulation does not apply strictly in Singapore as in, say, US or UK. So if the model is being paid, then the rights go to the photographer.
It is almost impossible, not to mention vaguely naive, to request all the photographers to ask for permission from the model before posting.
In saying the above, I come purely from a photographer's point of view.

My Apoloyise to All Photographers for having that Special Requests during that Moments. All along, Being a model, I understand fully that it’s rightful for photographers to post up the photos, on whatever pics they want.

However, due to this Special incident, I was being called down for this “OUTDOOR” Shoot, without knowing that its will “Suddenly” change to Indoor. Knowing my Strict Family's policy, I have no choice but to ask this Special requests from the Photographers there. I know its wrong for this Requests, but Its my Passion in Modeling Line. Its will be sad to remove something that one want to be in life. Hope you can understands the feeling and my point of view at that moments. Thanks. :bheart:

 

[happyfrog]

I just don't think it's right to destroy someone else's rice bowl just because of this small issue.

You can decline to shoot when you've arrived at the place and go home. But you chose to continue with the shoot.

He pester you to do lingerie, you declined. Even though you clearly stated and said you won't do lingerie shoots, but he have the right to ask. You have the right to agree or decline. You declined. Case closed. He did not use any criminal force to get you in the act. All the clothes are of your choice. All the poses are done of your own free will. Therefore, Outrage of Modesty is out of the picture. To paint a picture of this sort onto a photographer/organizer/individual for the public eye is just taking it to another level.

Yes, I understand why u created the whole thing. He said it's outdoor but changed to indoor. This may be due to changes in circumstances during the shoot. To me, I don't see anything wrong with outdoor or indoor as long as no hanky panky stuff is done. They did not take any of your nude/semi-nude photos. If you're not comfortable with shooting indoors, just go home. Take it as a lesson learnt and blacklist this person from your contact list.

If you are forced into any situations to do nude/semi-nude against your will, you may report to police. Just make sure you have a strong case. The way I look at it, there is no case.

As for the rights to the usage of photos, please bear in mind that the photographer has all rights to the photos, especially if you are paid. What is so special about that "Special Incident"? The only incident I know is the change of location from outdoor to indoor. Which as abovementioned, you have chose to proceed with the shoot indoors. You have the choice to go home.

Strict family or not, ultimately, it is still your choice to proceed with a shoot or otherwise.

 

[Rashkae]

ClubSnap have stopped allowing fotoshoots that feature nude models, or those whom we feel are too inappropriate in terms of concept, attire etc, ever since the sensationalisation of the TNP-Averral Incident.

That's good to know. But what's the line that would need to be crossed? Lately there even have been "wet lingerie" shoots too.