Title: An Organizer whom does not Honor his Words.

[spiker]

Sure will not appear one. $10! Lai ah! :bsmilie:

Lai lai ... come $10!! ... :bsmilie::bsmilie:

 

[happyfrog]

Sure will not appear one. $10! Lai ah! :bsmilie:

Lai... me too.

 

[vince123123]

But both of you never accepted his bet leh; can't be wait until lottery results open then buy ticket rite

HEHEHE

Lai lai ... come $10!! ... :bsmilie::bsmilie:

Lai... me too.

 

[HeiPiGu]

But both of you never accepted his bet leh; can't be wait until lottery results open then buy ticket rite

HEHEHE

Yah lor, how can like that one, not pro :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

 

[spiker]

Yah lor, how can like that one, not pro :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

haha... chey.. thought was open free bet mah ... ;p:bsmilie:

 

[Cheesecake]

since the organiser has somehow appeared...

can the organiser pls explain...

what is a clubsnap organised photoshoot appearing in a website like sammyboy?

 

[Rashkae]

This Thead is Created to Show Awareness to all, Especially for NewBie Models, to prevent being con again.
Learned from Other Models, they have Similar Experiences too.
If we remain Silent, there is No Surprise that this issue will Not be Repeated again.
Its Time, for us, the Models to stand up for Our Right!.

Meh. Newbies don't even read Newbies Guide stickies, you think new models are going to bother reading this? Nope. They'll just straightaway post their ad up as soon as they can.

 

[Rashkae]

To Tracy:

I'm actually surprised at your "Don't post without my permission" request. In a paid shoot, the photogs own the pics, they can do what they want. The most you could hope for is that the nicer ones will agree to let you "veto" any pics, but realistically, they have no reason to ask you for permission.

 

[happyfrog]

Yah lor, how can like that one, not pro :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

aiya. just kidding only la.

that aside, i think this is just miscommunication between organizer and model.

this happens usually on last minute agreements. T&Cs not laid out clearly, especially regarding the duration of the shoot (inclusive time delay etc or not).

best to prepare contract. also, i think it's unfair to the model to be refered to a particular thread on CS. i don't think she knows it's a 2-part shoot (1 outdoor and 1 indoor), especially it's last minute. well, it's clarified by happyranchu now. i think she arrived there a bit late... by then, the group has moved to the hotel for the 2nd part of the shoot. i understand the organizer is sometimes busy and have a lot to do during a shoot, and i think he may missed out that particular point, but it's still important to lay it out clearly to the model.

reading happyranchu's comments on the photo usage, i think it's not the organizer's fault. best to have model release form next time. i learnt my lesson the hard way too. but since it's a paid shoot (paid to model), usually the photographer have all rights to the photos.

for the model, if she feels not comfortable with a particular organizer... she can always refuse the deal. plus, i feel that things should be clarified between the organizer and model privately before blowing things up.

my comments are based on this particular case and do not refer to previous cases. i'm not sure if there are other disputes previously on the organizer side.

 

[spiker]

Reply to Tracy :

The last reply in Private Message between Emptyform and me was as follows (downloaded in XML format) :
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
- <!-- ClubSNAP Photography Forums;http://www.clubsnap.com/forums
-->
- <!-- Private Message Dump for User Artemis; 29th July 2009 01:12 AM
-->
- <privatemessages>
- <folder name="Inbox">
- <privatemessage>
<datestamp>2009-07-27 21:17</datestamp>
<title>Re: 25th morning shoot</title>
<fromuser>emptyform</fromuser>
<fromuserid>93522</fromuserid>
<touser>Artemis</touser>
- <message>
- <![CDATA[


apologies, didn't know that need her prior approval, if she doesn't like them to be posted, let me know, i will have them removed.

cheers,
emptyform

]]>
</message>
</privatemessage>
</folder>
</privatemessages>

Let me explain the sequence of event that took place that day.
The photoshoot event was of a 2 part series in which the first hour was a fashion theme outdoor and the other is a lingerie theme indoor. As the group of photographers turn up early on 25th July morning I were informed that the main model was unable to attend and the second model was sick, so had to call Juan which was the backup model for the day. And also later called Tracey coz as there are 7 pax in the group, it was better to have 2 models in which the group agreed. The first model Juan arrive late, so the first part of the photoshoot started at almost 10am.
At about 10:30am the group decided to do the indoor theme which is at a nearby hotel. Checkin to first room and started almost at 1045am and continue fashion shoot for remaining half hour for Juan. Tracey arrived and i pay the cab fare for her. I then checkin the second room and split the group into 2 with 4 pax in the bigger room and 3 pax in the smaller room. One room with Juan doing lingerie theme and second room with Tracey doing uniform / sexy outfits theme. After half hour, the models swap room. Due to some break time and delay the shoot may seem like 1.5 hours and instead of 1 hour in the room.
After the shoot, pay the respective models and I thought everything was settled.

I did SMS you to try to clear the misunderstanding but you didnt reply to me.

If the photographer who claims that there is only indoor shoot held, can Tracey you tell me who he is so as to clear the misunderstanding?

As far as the pics were posted by Emptyform, I had already downloaded for your reference and shown in this post. I can ask him to reply in this thread should you want him to do so.

I sincerely apologised for what has happened and don't hestitate to contact me if you feel that I did not honour my words. I am willing to top up $20 more if the time has exceeded your hour to 1.5 hour.

wow!... guts dude.. guts!! .. but hor ... how come i find alot of things dun look quite right har?..

such as the PM with you and EmptyForm... XML download... ahya.. anyone can also XML download lei .. text format somemore... it could be editted when you put up lor ... and then how come some italic and some normal text ah?... hmmm...
and then hor .. how come EmptyForm was the only one so far that got the PM not to post till prior approval ah?.. happyrancho also never received any notice needed for prior approval lei .. but he remembered Tracy telling him during shoot wor as he has mentioned ...
oh ya... in ur PM to emptyform u got write down for link and approval.. but his next reply is posted in CS lei ... y har?.. mis-comm?... :dunno:

and then also hor ... shoot at 10am.. 30min decide to change location ah?.. thought kenna chased out?.. but sound like happily shooting and decide to move location?.. but as an organizer doing this should know some places might need to seek some approval ba?...

oh oh .. another thing hor ... 1.5hrs become 1hr issit because of the delay and break?.. if it is hor... for your day job right?.. can your daytime company deduct your pay for lunch and tea break also?... this dun look too right to me lei ... cheapskate! ...

oh ya.. also ... only intro'd once and ask her to identify which one was the one that say reached at 9... wah .. i also wun remember who is who wor ... maybe you will cuz you have all the names written down while organizing.. hor?.. correct bo?...

hmmm... oh oh ... how about doing a proper snapshot of your PM with emptyform ah?.. maybe both do a snapshop and let's see how it looks?...

and then hor... how come NOW then agree to pay what is rightfully the model's pay .. when you didn't want to pay in the first place?.. must they make noise for everyone to see before you pay them accordingly?... very interesting sia ...

and you know what i find best .. i dun think you replied this message yourself lei ... how come in the PM with emptyform you know how to write Tracy's name correctly .. but in the post of the reply you spell her name wrongly all the way har? .. "Tracey" ???.. someone help you write this reply ah?.. then you again copy and paste ah?... wow .. so far to me, u still seem to be a sleaze and phony lei ...

i may be new to photography .. but i'm not new in forums as i am also in alot of other forums.. .. and it's too easy to see and pick out all the mistakes you have in your reply ...

 

[HeiPiGu]

You confirm is competitor lah! :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

 

[spiker]

You confirm is competitor lah! :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

haha.. organizers need competitors ah?.. haha... i dun like to organize... i only like to shoot.. but never can shoot well with a cam... either color problems or exposure problems... :S ...

 

[Canonised]

haha.. organizers need competitors ah?.. haha... i dun like to organize... i only like to shoot.. but never can shoot well with a cam... either color problems or exposure problems... :S ...

For someone who "haven really had time to look around CS ...now and then got login ... surfing around ... looking around ... don't have too much time due to work ..." .... it looks quite obvious with the long and meticulous point on point rebuttal that you have a rusty axe to grind ....:sweat::sweat::sweat:

i may be new to photography .. but i'm not new in forums as i am also in alot of other forums.. ...

like Ed master, you also from that other forum?

 

[happyfrog]

You confirm is competitor lah! :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

haha... if he/she is competitor, he can use her as his/her model in the future.

if he/she is photographer, also can attend her other organized shoots...

anyway, i feel that this is only a small matter. fight over 20 dollars. aih... why make it till so big. should solve it themselves privately. i know ppl who fight over 1000s of dollars, some also jz let it go.

 

[spiker]

For someone who "haven really had time to look around CS ...now and then got login ... surfing around ... looking around ... don't have too much time due to work ..." .... it looks quite obvious with the long and meticulous point on point rebuttal that you have a rusty axe to grind ....:sweat::sweat::sweat:
very rusty axe to sharpen is more like it... :bsmilie::bsmilie: .. but this one really got me interested... very interesting ...


like Ed master, you also from that other forum?

crazy ... not THAT other forum .. carforums lei ...

 

[spiker]

haha... if he/she is competitor, he can use her as his/her model in the future.

if he/she is photographer, also can attend her other organized shoots...

anyway, i feel that this is only a small matter. fight over 20 dollars. aih... why make it till so big. should solve it themselves privately. i know ppl who fight over 1000s of dollars, some also jz let it go.

i dun think it's over the $20 bucks.. more like during the last min prep ... organizer never say exactly where the shoot is taking place... kept saying something about dunno where location is yet... something like that .. model rushes down and in the end kenna indoor shoot .. and in the end kenna short paid... double whammy sia! ... hmmm... 1000s of dollars. can i fight for it too?.. hahaha.. :bsmilie::bsmilie:;p

 

[spiker]

crazy ... not THAT other forum .. carforums lei ...

hmmm.. how come i can't do multi-quote properly ah?.. duhhhhh ...

 

[Rashkae]

hmmm.. how come i can't do multi-quote properly ah?.. duhhhhh ...

You haven't been posting enough! Out of practice! :nono:

 

[spiker]

crazy ... not THAT other forum .. carforums lei ...

You haven't been posting enough! Out of practice! :nono:

haha.. ok ok ... will practice more on postings!.. haha... :bsmilie:

 

[happyfrog]

i dun think it's over the $20 bucks.. more like during the last min prep ... organizer never say exactly where the shoot is taking place... kept saying something about dunno where location is yet... something like that .. model rushes down and in the end kenna indoor shoot .. and in the end kenna short paid... double whammy sia! ... hmmm... 1000s of dollars. can i fight for it too?.. hahaha.. :bsmilie::bsmilie:;p

if it's last min prep... i think also cant blame on organizer cos it seems like the main model pulled out last min. i can see that the organizer's desperation. so, can't really blame the organizer also la.

model rush down... she can turn down if she is tired from late night sleep.

indoor shoot... i dont see why it matters, cos she brought her sexy outfits for the theme. regardless indoor or outdoor, she was shot in her own clothes. organizer requested her to wear some other outfit, she turned down. organizer stopped pursuing the matter. case closed.

short paid... the hours not clearly defined. organizer's fault on that for not defining the time paid. but for only 20 dollars? model shouldn't blow things up la. if it's 1000s of dollars, then different case. but it's weird some of my friends would just let it go. maybe weak case? i don't know.