Please Help Me!

[rhino123]

thanks pinholecam! I realize that the Canon viewfinder is about 95%?! :lovegrin:

Not true. It depends on the model you are looking at.

60D - 96% coverage
70D - 98% coverage
7D - 100% coverage
700D - 95% coverage

Canon tends to be abit stingy when it comes to offering goodies in their camera unlike many other brands like Sony, Olympus, Panasonic and Pentax.

 

[Ah Keong]

Because of weight and size, I only use Olympus micro4/3 for casual outdoor use and Nikon DSLR for serious work or paid job.

As a beginner, u also won't know how deep u will go. But I think smaller and lighter gears will keep u going and going far.

I have the em10. It is very competent, but of coz lacking in some department to the DSLR. Though that should not put you off as most of your needs will be met by this little gem. The current $998 is a very good promotion for em10, with pancake kit lens, 1 fast prime lens and a spare battery + a $50 voucher. If u need more battery, just buy 3rd party at later stage. If you need more lenses, just buy 2nd hand from Clubsnap. But u can try using the 2x e-teleconverter that's built into Olympus. Pls research about it; I won't waste time explaining. The 50 bucks voucher u can go to any capitaland mall buy dry cabinet.

Once your skills surpass the camera, then u decide whether to migrate to DSLR or stay with micro4/3. If u are not turning professional, like being paid for shooting events or wedding, u should be safe with micro4/3. Even if u turn pro, the micro4/3 can be a spare system for casual use or even work alongside your DSLR for paid work. For me, I use it for causal, and sometimes I use it together with dslr for events and weddings.

Hence in overall, I think em10 package suits u more, considering u are also used to shooting through LCD panel, but u can easily switch to viewfinder on em10.

thanks sin77! I think the EM10 is cool! but just that the holding kinda feel a bit awkward when compared to the EOS 70D (maybe the grip is better for newbie like me?). I personally think the EM10 is personally more stealth for street shooting compared to the EOS 70D.

think the skills is more important than the camera itself. maybe I should look at older second hand model. :lovegrin:

 

[Ah Keong]

If you are talking about full frame, then the FOV is indeed 90mm. However, if you are looking at the 70D like you mentioned, you have to multiple the focal length by x1.6.

As for aperture (f stop), the opening of the lens f1.8 in this case is the same no matter which format you mount it on.. And I believe this was already brought up by one of the experts here earlier on.

So to say, a f1.8 lens on a Canon FF DSLR have the same opening in the lens diaphragm as a f1.8 lens on an iPhone. The difference would be in DoF due to the sensor size...

Hope I'm not confusing you here...

Thanks KonTrol! Sorry I mixed up my friend's EOS 5D and the EOS 70D.
Think he mentioned EOS 5D is 2.0x and EOS 70D is 1.6x.
I mixed up the actual F1.8 and the 'feel' F1.8.
From what I read in the web (if I did not misunderstand) the actual F1.8 is for lighting and exposing purpose while the 'feel' F1.8 is due to the different design of the Canon EOS 5D and EOS 70D and are different. :lovegrin:

 

[Ah Keong]

For the field of view, yes. But the dof will be different.

For aperture, they go by f stop, so it's not really taking the number times crop factor.

I personally really feel that you don't have to get too concerned about the field of view when first buying a system...

Back When I was using a compact camera, I didn't even care what focal length

You will take time to understand it after using it. (Then eventually kenna poison deep deep)

Thanks SkyStrike!

Didn't know there are so much science and maths in the shooting. Not to mention the art behind the live view LCD.
this poison is expensive!!

chim. :lovegrin:

 

[Ah Keong]

There are a few "kit lenses" available, but I recommend starting with the 14-42 EZ, not the 12-40 f2.8 (significantly more expensive and heavier). If you want to compare sizes of cameras, I recommend using this site: (It also tells you the weight of the setup when you hover your cursor over the camera)

You can see here the E-M10 with 14-42 EZ is significantly smaller than a 70D plus the smallest kit lens available for it, the 18-55 IS STM:

Thanks brapodam! I mixed up the EM10 beginner kit lens and the EM1 PRO kit lens.
The EM10 is more stealth for street shooting but I feel that if got the grip like the EOS 70D would be better to hold for beginner like me. :lovegrin:

 

[Ah Keong]

Yes and no.

For the same distance between you and subject, then yes, its equivalent to a 90mm FOV.
For light gathering, no, its f1.8
For DOF, for the same field of view, then yes, DOF is equivalent to f3.6


Whether this is important to you or not, depends on the genre and style you shoot.
As a rough an example, to get a full body shot with the 45/1.8 on m4/3, you need to stand 12m away. (can be a tad tougher with ppl milling about in betwwen you and subject)
You'd also get the equivalent f3.6 DOF in terms of subject isolation.
On a FF camera with 45/2.8 lens, you'd only stand 6m for that same full body shot with a f2.8 DOF
Some folks don't shoot that much for isolation, in which case, all this does not matter.


In my case, I have used m4/3, aps-c, FF (and compacts).
I never lament at what I have and what I am using.
I just frame with the focal length I have at hand for what it can give.
But then, its really an individual thing/preference.

thanks pinholecam! I shall consider what you mentioned for street shooting and night shooting.
I read from somewhere that the Olympus is not so good for night shooting. :lovegrin:

 

[Ah Keong]

Not all is 95%... some higher end ones have 100% (not sure why Canon made it a novelty thingy)

Thanks SkyStrike! I am looking at my friend's 4 year old EOS 7D (and touching tonight!) where he is selling and the viewfinder scope is 100% and feel the same as the EOS 70D (think got 19 black(day) and red(night) square sensors)

But he mentioned that the live view LCD is slower than the EOS 70D. :lovegrin:

 

[Ah Keong]

Not true. It depends on the model you are looking at.

60D - 96% coverage
70D - 98% coverage
7D - 100% coverage
700D - 95% coverage

Canon tends to be abit stingy when it comes to offering goodies in their camera unlike many other brands like Sony, Olympus, Panasonic and Pentax.

thanks rhino123! thinks Canon camera viewfinder scope is expensive to make it 100%. :lovegrin:

 

[brapodam]

Thanks brapodam! I mixed up the EM10 beginner kit lens and the EM1 PRO kit lens.
The EM10 is more stealth for street shooting but I feel that if got the grip like the EOS 70D would be better to hold for beginner like me. :lovegrin:

There is a grip you can get for the E-M10 which will make it become like that:

I believe the E-M10 also has a larger viewfinder magnification (1.15x vs 0.95x) and coverage (100% vs 98%) than 70D. I feel these 2 aspects of the viewfinder are very important. 100% coverage is very useful when you want to make sure something isn't in your shot (e.g. a stray tree branch in the corner of the frame - the branch may actually be in your shot but your viewfinder won't show it if it's not 100% coverage). However, EVFs may have some lag, but I think technology has improved to the point where the current mirrorless cameras have very good EVFs already.

TBH with the current technology, mirrorless cameras are the way to go if you're not going for the high end DSLRs. I also don't like Canon's current strategy of continuously removing useful features from the 70D line. I believe this is to force people to go for the 7D, and I don't like it.

 

[SkyStrike]

Thanks SkyStrike! I am looking at my friend's 4 year old EOS 7D (and touching tonight!) where he is selling and the viewfinder scope is 100% and feel the same as the EOS 70D (think got 19 black(day) and red(night) square sensors)

But he mentioned that the live view LCD is slower than the EOS 70D. :lovegrin:

Just a small note, even if it's 100% coverage, the size of the viewfinder may still vary.

And, if you are buying 2nd hand stuffs, consider checking out the avg price the market is selling.

 

[Ah Keong]

There is a grip you can get for the E-M10 which will make it become like that:

I believe the E-M10 also has a larger viewfinder magnification (1.15x vs 0.95x) and coverage (100% vs 98%) than 70D. I feel these 2 aspects of the viewfinder are very important. 100% coverage is very useful when you want to make sure something isn't in your shot (e.g. a stray tree branch in the corner of the frame - the branch may actually be in your shot but your viewfinder won't show it if it's not 100% coverage). However, EVFs may have some lag, but I think technology has improved to the point where the current mirrorless cameras have very good EVFs already.

TBH with the current technology, mirrorless cameras are the way to go if you're not going for the high end DSLRs. I also don't like Canon's current strategy of continuously removing useful features from the 70D line. I believe this is to force people to go for the 7D, and I don't like it.

Thanks brapodam!! I feel that the Olympus viewfinder LCD is better than the Canon viewfinder scope.
My friend ask me to consider the EOS 7D (think have two more autofocus modes than EOS 70D). I shall reconsider everything after touching the EOS 7D tonight!! :lovegrin:

 

[Ah Keong]

Just a small note, even if it's 100% coverage, the size of the viewfinder may still vary.

And, if you are buying 2nd hand stuffs, consider checking out the avg price the market is selling.

Thanks SkyStrike! My friend offering friend friend price of $1188 for EOS 7D and a Sigma lens for $288. :lovegrin:

 

[KonTrol]

Thanks SkyStrike! My friend offering friend friend price of $1188 for EOS 7D and a Sigma lens for $288. :lovegrin:

$1188 brand new or 2nd hand?

 

[SkyStrike]

Thanks SkyStrike! My friend offering friend friend price of $1188 for EOS 7D and a Sigma lens for $288. :lovegrin:

A simple search in this forum says that the price of 7D (body) used is about 900-1000++ So.... it's up to you lar.

Focusing, I heard better things from 70D users than from those using 7D. And if you don't shoot sports, those AF modes means nothing.

And, I agree with what brapodam had mentioned about Canon's strategy of new products. Constantly crippling models by removing useful features here and there. Being a Canon user, it can really get on one's nerves when competing brands looks so generous in those features. E.g. timelapse mode, metering based on focus point etc.

For choices of camera, dun rush to buy one. Slow evaluate. There may be more than one factor affecting your buying decision.
E.g.
- The weight of the camera. For 1 - 5 mins, it don't feel big and heavy, after 3hours of carrying it, it may weigh like lead.
- Size: The bigger the camera/lens, other than adding to the weight, one will need a bigger bag to carry it out. Which one may find it a hassle if it's just a simple gathering or walk about shoot. Compare a FF (e.g. 5D3) + 24-70, it's going to weight easily 2kg. Compared to m43 offering which weighs much lesser

 

[rhino123]

Thanks brapodam!! I feel that the Olympus viewfinder LCD is better than the Canon viewfinder scope.
My friend ask me to consider the EOS 7D (think have two more autofocus modes than EOS 70D). I shall reconsider everything after touching the EOS 7D tonight!! :lovegrin:

Not sure what you mean by viewfinder LCD. Do note the different, Canon viewfinder or viewfinder of all DSLR are basically optical viewfinder, the viewfinder found on Olympus camera such as the EM5, EM10 and EM1 are all digital viewfinder... and there will be a slight lag (even my EM5 experience that) after taking the photo, optical viewfinder will not experience such lag, although to be true... I don't really find the lag that annoying.

 

[rhino123]

Thanks SkyStrike! My friend offering friend friend price of $1188 for EOS 7D and a Sigma lens for $288. :lovegrin:

Er... wait... was it 7D or 7DmkII? If it is the mkII, it is a lovely lovely price. If it is the mk1... I find it a little expensive since the mk1 is kind of old now.

 

[brapodam]

Er... wait... was it 7D or 7DmkII? If it is the mkII, it is a lovely lovely price. If it is the mk1... I find it a little expensive since the mk1 is kind of old now.

Pretty sure it's the Mk1; doesn't make sense to sell the Mk2 for so low, even to a friend.

 

[rhino123]

Pretty sure it's the Mk1; doesn't make sense to sell the Mk2 for so low, even to a friend.

Makes lots of sense. There are people who buy on impulse, and later regret and wanted to get rid of the item. Anyway, since none of us is TS, we will not know.


(Look at the mentioned and it will give you a rough idea how much the 7D mkI is being sold for second hand.)
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/search.php?searchid=11024520

 

[Ah Keong]

$1188 brand new or 2nd hand?

Its 2nd hand! Comes with 15-85mm kit lens. If no lens it would be $888. :lovegrin:

 

[Ah Keong]

A simple search in this forum says that the price of 7D (body) used is about 900-1000++ So.... it's up to you lar.

Focusing, I heard better things from 70D users than from those using 7D. And if you don't shoot sports, those AF modes means nothing.

And, I agree with what brapodam had mentioned about Canon's strategy of new products. Constantly crippling models by removing useful features here and there. Being a Canon user, it can really get on one's nerves when competing brands looks so generous in those features. E.g. timelapse mode, metering based on focus point etc.

For choices of camera, dun rush to buy one. Slow evaluate. There may be more than one factor affecting your buying decision.
E.g.
- The weight of the camera. For 1 - 5 mins, it don't feel big and heavy, after 3hours of carrying it, it may weigh like lead.
- Size: The bigger the camera/lens, other than adding to the weight, one will need a bigger bag to carry it out. Which one may find it a hassle if it's just a simple gathering or walk about shoot. Compare a FF (e.g. 5D3) + 24-70, it's going to weight easily 2kg. Compared to m43 offering which weighs much lesser

Thanks SkyStrike! I forgot to say that the price include a kit lens. without lens would be $888. I will consider a 1st hand then if the price difference is not much.

I see the weight difference between EOS 70D and EOS 7D is about 200g? I was told for street shooting after hours of shooting, 200g difference will 'feel' like 2000g.

For size wise, the Olympus is better. more stealth for street shooting, wondering if the EM10 grip is nice to hold compared to EOS 70D for newbie like me. :lovegrin: