Why foreign talents are preferred over Singaporeans (in my friend's friend's company)

[Foxshade]

Loyalty goes both ways.

An ex colleague of mine has been working with the company for say 20+ years.

He got some eye disease, and had difficulty in sight. He had used up all his leaves (medical and annual) and even starting to take unpaid leaves to cure his eye. Knowing that he is a burden to the company, he offered his resignation.

The Company rejected his resignation, citing he has been with company for so long and blah blah blah, and offered him an assistant to help him.

About a year later, he got sacked by the company citing performance issues, and all his task is now handled by his assistant.

What do you think of that?

Here's what I think. He has been with the company for 20+ years, his expertise is priceless to the company. When he offered his resignation, the company is not ready to lose him, so hire an assistant to learn the rope. After the company thinks the assistant can handle his task, off he goes.

Is there a loyalty? I would offer the same degree of loyalty as what the company offer me.

Foreigners might be preferred here maybe because they are still naive and believe there is such thing as loyalty in working place.

To simplify stuffs, here's the question: Would the company keep me if I am not performing?
Would I keep working here if the company is not giving me the benefit on par with outside market?

 

[SilentSeth]

IMHO, believing that foreigners are naive is... naive

If one is loyal, appreciate it, if one is not, live with it (Or don't. It's up to you)

 

[Zenten]

IMHO, believing that foreigners are naive is... naive

If one is loyal, appreciate it, if one is not, live with it (Or don't. It's up to you)

Bro , you beat me to it ..... I was just going to say the same thing. Hear hear.

Don't ever let your guard down ....... or they might just hit you where it hurts the most.

 

[SilentSeth]

Bro , you beat me to it ..... I was just going to say the same thing. Hear hear.

Don't ever let your guard down ....... or they might just hit you where it hurts the most.

What I said is applicable for all

You can find loyal locals as well as loyal foreigners.

You can also find not-so-loyal locals as well as not-so-loyal foreigners.

 

[Sion]

Yes, that is your style, since many years ago....

but I don't recall I had ever finish reading any of your posting before, sorry about that. :embrass:

Four words to describe him: :bsmilie:

臥虎藏龍

 

[cirenaiht]

Can you share a few more details? What industry is this? What jobs were to be filled? In which way did they lack competency? (Interviews are done based on CV, so was it all faked?) What bad attitude did your boss notice?

I'm in creative industry, doing publication design and photography.
I'm not the done doing interview so I can't tell much about CV. This is a small company and part of my duty is too guide those newcomers…They were mostly fresh grads, starting point is the same for all. Most foreigners are willing to listen and learn, the other way round with singaporeans I met. They thought they knew best and simply ignore your advise, till they made mistake and u had to cover their ****.

Well, not all I have to say. There were 1 singaporean who worked really hard and I respect her. Too bad she's not with us anymore. But mostly, they somehow similarly stubborn.

The latest addition to my company is a malaysian. He got no experience BUT he's a pleasant guy to work with.
Yes he made mistakes but at least he's willing to listen.

Much gap in motivation I guess? some really need to survive while the other still have parents' house to stay.

I'm not trying to provoke or anything here. I'm just sharing my experience from my point of view.

 

[G-man]

I'm in creative industry, doing publication design and photography. I'm not the done doing interview so I can't tell much about CV. This is a small company and part of my duty is too guide those newcomers…They were mostly fresh grads, starting point is the same for all. Most foreigners are willing to listen and learn, the other way round with singaporeans I met. They thought they knew best and simply ignore your advise, till they made mistake and u had to cover their ****. Well, not all I have to say. There were 1 singaporean who worked really hard and I respect her. Too bad she's not with us anymore. But mostly, they somehow similarly stubborn. The latest addition to my company is a malaysian. He got no experience BUT he's a pleasant guy to work with. Yes he made mistakes but at least he's willing to listen. Much gap in motivation I guess? some really need to survive while the other still have parents' house to stay. I'm not trying to provoke or anything here. I'm just sharing my experience from my point of view.

I completely agree with you. Being in the same industry, I have seen similar traits too. Perhaps it's a false sense of superiority they have. Being fed the belief that because they are SLIGHTLY (at best) more educated academically they are better. I beg to differ.

 

[UncleFai]

I completely agree with you. Being in the same industry, I have seen similar traits too. Perhaps it's a false sense of superiority they have. Being fed the belief that because they are SLIGHTLY (at best) more educated academically they are better. I beg to differ.

I have heard things the other way: fresh grads say the old timers in the companies often (a) "kay kiang" and (b) feel insecure and tries to bully the new comers.

 

[Foxshade]

IMHO, believing that foreigners are naive is... naive

If one is loyal, appreciate it, if one is not, live with it (Or don't. It's up to you)

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't generalize like that.

 

[ed9119]

A recession with high unemployment rate will make employees very loyal no?

 

[G-man]

I have heard things the other way: fresh grads say the old timers in the companies often (a) "kay kiang" and (b) feel insecure and tries to bully the new comers.

Or could it be the fresh grads' pride messing with them. I was a fresh grad once and I was like that once. I don't think I am the only one.

Sure there are a-holes in every industry. Having said that, we don't call the current generation strawberry generation without good reason.

Just sayin'

 

[kandinsky]

Or could it be the fresh grads' pride messing with them. I was a fresh grad once and I was like that once. I don't think I am the only one.

Yeah... It could be just plain human nature to perceive ourselves as better, kinder, more hardworking, etc... than others. Like how everyone is a terrible driver except ourselves. So when we're fresh grads, we view old timers negatively, when we become old timers, we view fresh grads negatively. The cycle of life ;p

 

[Foxshade]

A recession with high unemployment rate will make employees very loyal no?

Loyal till the recession is over. :bsmilie:

 

[Kit]

Well, wwwwhhhhhaaatttddaayyyyyaaaknoooowww!!! Retrenchment season is back and I am tasked to "give 3 names". Singaporeans, market is slowing down faster than you can sip that morning kopi o. Buck up or get ready to be shipped out!

 

[ninelives]

Jedi, registered 2002, dont think you are young but you are definitely wrong. i work in IT sector, as you know, IT sector lot of FTs....they also same same as Singaporean lar, if got good offers, they will leave the company.

 

[SilentSeth]

I usually try to stay for at least a year in a company. Less than that I don't feel like learning or contributing anything. Not good for both parties.

But then again, once I left a company after just 3 months. And no, it's not because of I received better offer.

 

[sammy888]

Not on this topic but I use to spend time writing to talk about photography topics to some of the folks...if you were involve with the second PhotoAid that about the time we both join clubsnap.

 

[sammy888]

In my job before last I was tasked with the general interview of staff especially first round? I get them to touch the company logo. I said what do you feel? They say cold metal. I say yes. The company is a unfeeling cold entity with a name. There is no such thing as loyalty at least not the kind you associate it to mean like a cute little puppy dog. But it does reward those who can get the job done I told them.

Without giving history lesson, I will just say the 21st Century is the internet age, fast paced and ever changing. More people join the work place every year with a good number having better skills and newer ideas/approaches to get work done in a shorter time or it's been done by computers. Even computer are taken over by newer ones faster then dust ball can settle on the CPU !

Loyalty goes only so far but still not get you the promotion and increment you seek even after a long service with them. You want those incentives, you have to show you can do more and better consistently then the next person or group. A company unless stated, is NOT A CHARITY organization. You earn your keep or someone keeps your earning. You are fulfilling a contract, work for money.

I feel everyone should have a chance to be their own boss once. Show you what's life is like establishing a company. To know how making any decisions is hard and not always the most popular ones. The flip side is it also show you what makes one a bad boss too.

The moment you think another outside company can pay more and why my boss is not, you are already no longer thinking loyalty. That is not wrong, you are still free to leave. Boss can use that against you of not being loyal too. But he will get over it and hire a new one eventually. heh. Boss don't do this because they are cold and not loyal to their staff. They do this in order to keep the company existing. LOYALTY works both ways. If you are loyal you also have to do everything in your power to keep improving and bring added value to the company. Just by not leaving does not mean you are loyal. It could very well mean you are too comfortable there.

So that is why I hate to use the word Loyalty in work. It really is such a misunderstood and abused word in the work place.

I would hope more people from various industries to share what they face in their own. By knowing what we know from the various places we work, we can see more clearly which section are effected. And if what is said about them are truly real, partial or happening more in one sector over another..etc.. But of course you have to be objective in your observation. The problem I see is someone found a bad apple in a basket and from that he/she conclude the whole basket is bad.

Yes I have seen bad apple (FW, FT and Expats). I have seen locals being as shi*ty too. Apart from the obvious I see newer type of bad acts from foreigners. I guess those were things they do in their own countries and they now try to do it here and get away with it. That kind of problem is a little harder to discover till it hits you. But that's part and parcel of life when cultures meet. can more be done? Yes I think so and I have my grievances ( with the govt,irate bosses eg) over them but to say it is epidemic? No.I think we need to break it all apart and then look into further.

 

[petetherock]

I have spent a lot of time in China and other countries.

They love SG.

Safe, clean, and minimal corruption compared to their countries. A place where people can work hard and get their wage fairly and a chance to have a decent living.
It's like us going to Australia, work reasonably hard and they get rewarded for their sweat and toil.

Now compare that to Singaporeans, who want a 'work life balance' - a euphemism for working less and getting paid more. Our productivity is far below Germany, less than China, and yet we complain when we are replaced.

We do deserve a good standard of living, but it means that we need to work smart and work hard, then go home and rest or play hard. There's no free lunch. When we keep asking for more wages, and the whole cycle of expensive wages, rentals, food, and transport will only get worse. Unless we keep things affordable, keep things efficient and we are competitive on the global front.

Otherwise we will be eaten alive in the world. And it's not the fault of the 'foreign talent'.. it's easy to blame others, but we should start at home, then see how we can help ourselves.

My 2c worth.

 

[Sion]

I have spent a lot of time in China and other countries.

They love SG.

Safe, clean, and minimal corruption compared to their countries. A place where people can work hard and get their wage fairly and a chance to have a decent living.
It's like us going to Australia, work reasonably hard and they get rewarded for their sweat and toil.

Now compare that to Singaporeans, who want a 'work life balance' - a euphemism for working less and getting paid more. Our productivity is far below Germany, less than China, and yet we complain when we are replaced.

We do deserve a good standard of living, but it means that we need to work smart and work hard, then go home and rest or play hard. There's no free lunch. When we keep asking for more wages, and the whole cycle of expensive wages, rentals, food, and transport will only get worse. Unless we keep things affordable, keep things efficient and we are competitive on the global front.

Otherwise we will be eaten alive in the world. And it's not the fault of the 'foreign talent'.. it's easy to blame others, but we should start at home, then see how we can help ourselves.

My 2c worth.

A most sensible post.

Have you ever thought of joining politics?