My Personal Crusade

[KNIGHT ONG]

English :mad2: Singlish :devil: Queenlish :angel:

 

[nightbreed]

I never say Singlish is wrong or bad what!

And look what I came across in this forum!

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=18698

A sticky, no less!

 

[Witness]

I used to be a debater, and now i am a writer of sorts. Thus I know how important the use of proper English can be. However, this is an Internet forum, not an article to be submitted to the publishers. To correct every single word basically just defeats the whole system of using forums.

As long as everyone understands one another, there is no particular need for the use of the "Queen's English" here in clubsnap. Furthermore, i believe the Queen's English is more of a spoken form than written. This just makes things difficult for everyone. Remember, this is a photographic forum, not a linguistic forum.

As for the Kopitiam issue, there have been countless times French has been "imported" to be used as English. So what would the problem with Kopitiam be.

Please reflect on the priorities of your usage of the English Language.There are people out there in clubsnap who are way better than both you and me put together in the area of linguistic prowess. They just choose to use the Internet language in place of their spoken and officially written form of English.

i.e. yup....kopitiam stays man... ahahz..

 

[Dennis]

Ha ha OK OK Kopitiam stays, I also like the name.
Another suggestion how about Go Ka Ki (5 foot way, not very good at the translation leh) :bsmilie:

 

[jbma]

What is a MYOB? :embrass:

Hey...since we are talking abt "crusades"...how about a crusade against acronyms? For e.g "My 20 MP DSLR's DOF using the WA lens with i-TTL flash with CLS is better than your P&S cam with TCs with its small FOV and dim EVF." Show that to any layman and chances are he'll end up scratching his head. :bsmilie:

So the corrected version would be, "My 20 Mega Pixel Digital Single lens Reflex camera 's Depth of Field using the Wide Angle lens with intelligent Through The Lens flash with Creative Lighting System is better than your Point & Shoot cam with Tele Converters with its small Field of View and dim Electronic Viewfinder".

I'll vote for that.

 

[jbma]

nightbreed, you as a relative newbie, IMHO, pls learn to keep your head down and learn more abt the rules of posting. posting demeaning comments of CSers' use of the English language will only invite flaming and condemnation from the seniors and pros out there.

i'm a relative newbie, like you. i spent a lot of time observing how to seniors posted b4 even venturing to make my 1st post. so, do learn and not to make too much "enemies" out there? else you might not have too many CSers who are willing to give constructive comments to your pics or to be your shoot-buddy.

Same here. I'll drink to that.

 

[zekai]

If you are so inclined, please point out my language errors. I'm sure there are!

In the written form, it should be "I am sure there are!"

Haha! :blah:

 

[Darren]

Taken at face value, your sentence would mean that I have not done anything wrong, since my crusade 'barely falls' into any form of error.

Let me rephrase and re-clarify what I meant in my post in simpler terms - your so-called crusade is almost violating on our Term #7 (see here for complete Terms of Use) and subjectively, if members take issue with your insistence in correcting their English, you would be in violation of #1 as well.

I say "almost", "if" and "would" here because, for now, your "crusading"/posts have only been in Kopitiam which, by definition, allows for such OT posts.

The situation changes once your "crusade" starts appearing in posts which are outside of Kopitiam as they would not necessarily be adding or contributing anything photographically-speaking to the discussion.

Please remember and take to heart that this is a Photography Forum and not an English Tutorial/Remedial Forum.

 

[Wolfgang]

Edited:

"Nobody has requested for his "services". " - some public services were not requested for, but they are still carried out. When they are not carried out, people will make noise.

Yes indeed.

"posting their rants and be really anal-retentive and start harping on other's way of expressing themselves in the English language." - Sorry, was I ranting? I didn't mean to. And as far as memory serves, this is the first time I've been called an anal-retentive. Maybe the Minister for Education would like to rename all teachers as Anal-retentives and call September 1 as Anal-retentives' Day.

Teachers being paid professionals, points out their charge's mistakes in school. Please do not try to associate yourself to such a noble profession.

Food for thought. You hide behind the anonyminity of the screen, correcting grammer, sentences and spelling and all the while being quite patronzing. Maybe, one day, you should join us at one of our outing and if we happen to have an on-going conversation, why don't you try to butt in and correct whatever mistake you spot. Lets see how many times you can do so before someone finds you a pain.

Linguistic skills, you might not lack, but EQ wise, you seriously need to get in touch with reality.

It is acceptable and even inevitable that mistakes are made from time to time while speaking and writing English. However, is it acceptable when whole conversations and essays are littered with errors? Common mistakes include the incorrect usage of tenses and errors in concord. If you have a reasonably good command of English, try speaking and writing it badly. It is difficult. Therefore, those who speak and write it badly all the time really need help and guidance.

It's good to see someone who has an idea of what they want to do...

I cannot agree that it is offensive to correct someone else's English. Tetrode’s suggestion to PM the edited version to those involved is a good idea, but I will not take it up. It would defeat my purpose. Therefore, I will carry on with what I do, not in defiance of forum rules, but in keeping with my objectives. However, I understand that I may be barred from the forum as a result of my actions. If this should happen, I will bear no animosity to those responsible. But then you will have lost a supporter of this forum and closed the door in the face of one who only sought to instruct and enlighten.

Once again, you claim you seek to instruct & enlighten. Why would PM-ing the person defeat the purpose? After all, if you only wish to instruct & enlighten, an audience isn't necessary, is it? Do you really need to show the entire forum how gifted you are withte English language?

You do this simply because you have the cloak of anonyminity. Like i have mentioned before, why don't you head out with a group of friends and whenever they start talking and make a grammatical error, you correct them there and then?

Serious, grow up.

 

[Larry]

I am embarking on a Crusade. A Crusade to rid badly written and punctuated English in any forum that I am registered in. By no means am I the most qualified person to do this. I am not even an authority on the Language. But I know bad English when I come across it. And this is the main reason for my Crusade.

I will continue to do so in the light of any criticism, ostracism and threats of physical violence. I will endeavour to bring light to this Dark Age of English Language Usage, where English is so badly mangled by careless, indifferent use of grammar, spelling and punctuation. I will persist until the day you pry my cold, dead fingers from the computer keyboard.

How will I do this? I will re-write any examples of bad English I come across and re-post it again in its corrected form. I may not be able to do so for each and every post, but I will try. I am neither omnipresent nor omniscient.

I am doing this because of the blatant abuse of the Language in its everyday form, especially in local forums. This has spread its insidious influence into everyday writing practices.

So take this how you will. Here I make my stand. And I urge the like-minded to take up arms and join me!

Sigh. All right then, if you really insist on your "crusade", the following points are in reference to your very first post.

I am embarking on a Crusade.

Technically, you can't 'embark' on a Crusade. In this instance, your use of the term "crusade" refers to a "vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse". Hence, you can't 'start' or 'commence' on a 'movement', but rather you 'engage in a crusade' or 'go on a crusade'. One can only 'embark' on a voyage, mission, venture or some type of vessel such as a ship or aircraft.

"A Crusade to rid badly written and punctuated English in any forum..."

You're using "To rid" to refer to "free or remove" in your sentence. Hence it is awkwardly structured since you neglected to use a preposition such as "of". Your sentence would have been much clearer if you had phrased it as "A Crusade to get rid of badly written and punctuated English in any forum" or "A Crusade to rid badly written and punctuated English out of any forum". Your sentence is also a fragmented one in case you didn't notice.

"I will re-write any examples of bad English I come across and re-post it again in its corrected form."

That's a redundant repetition of your verb. To "re-post" already denotes to "post it again". Hence, in effect, you're saying, "I will post it again again".

"So take this how you will."

The correct use of that phase is "Take this as you will" or "Take this however you will".

nightbreed, I have nothing against your so-called "Crusade", and for the record, neither am I a teacher or linguist. I can use Singlish terms with the best of them and I can speak English like a native-born Englishman if you'd like (I'll even throw in a nice crisp Brit accent for free). My point is simply this - look hard enough at anything and you can and will find flaws and defects. Languages are not exact sciences. They are tools that we use to communicate and convey messages to others, and as long as the message gets across and sufficiently understood, the tool has served its purpose. No use or choice of any language tools is better than others. Even the British Isles are littered with different variants, colloquialism, slang, dialects of the English language. Does that mean if I use Cockney English here, I need to be corrected to the Queen's English?

I sincerely think you should find a better use of your time or a more worthy cause to champion. I'd also like to emphasise Darren's admonishment that "this is a Photography Forum and not an English Tutorial/Remedial Forum".

 

[Azure]

Oh, why not just live and let live. This thread has its amusing parts. And has, after all, kept to itself.

 

[Poledra]

I used to be a debater, and now i am a writer of sorts. Thus I know how important the use of proper English can be. However, this is an Internet forum, not an article to be submitted to the publishers. To correct every single word basically just defeats the whole system of using forums.

As long as everyone understands one another, there is no particular need for the use of the "Queen's English" here in clubsnap. Furthermore, i believe the Queen's English is more of a spoken form than written. This just makes things difficult for everyone. Remember, this is a photographic forum, not a linguistic forum.

As for the Kopitiam issue, there have been countless times French has been "imported" to be used as English. So what would the problem with Kopitiam be.

Please reflect on the priorities of your usage of the English Language.There are people out there in clubsnap who are way better than both you and me put together in the area of linguistic prowess. They just choose to use the Internet language in place of their spoken and officially written form of English.

i.e. yup....kopitiam stays man... ahahz..

You have stolen the words from my mouth. I was thinking about this when I was reading through all the posts on this thread.

Languages were created to allow people of the same race to communicate. As long as one party understands the other, the basis of creating a language has been achieved. Besides, this entire forum is for photographers to get to know each other, share ideas, etc etc...

Yes, it might be painful to see English written in some ways.. I do wince at the computer screen at times. But please do be aware that there are many people in this forum, and we all grow up in different methods. Some dragged up by their parents and kicked into the society to work in order earn enough money to support their family, others sent into expensive schools and given an expensive education. So not everyone can learn the proper usage of English. Many (especially the older photographers) start out using Chinese as their first language, then painfully learn English because they need it in their working life to communicate with their colleagues.
These people we must take our hats off to, because they have learnt to understand an entire language mainly through their own hard work and not depending on their parents for money to pay the school fees.

So, next time, before you post an edited post, please take into account what the person's background might be and consider his feelings when he sees a younger person condemning his English.
I'm not perfect at the language and I won't be surprised if you find some fragmented sentences in my post... I don't care.
Take English Literature at A'levels/University and score an A1 if you want to prove how good you are at the language.

 

[clive]

last time i was rigorous with english

now relaxed alot more

forum...really no need to waste xtra effort to type in standard english..unless u r a super meticulous prick or want to amintain a image of seriousness...lolzz :bsmilie:

but thnx to my RI training, when ever the occasion arises for a need for proper, higher level and fluent english, i can still whip it up on the impromptu ;-)

 

[Witness]

haha...clive...tt was exactly wat i meant...

anyway...night's eng also not so power...seen better..seen worse haha..

 

[vincentt_whale]

agree with polendra... It's nice when u see people using good english. However, there are people who do not have opportunity to learn it in a proper way. Should we look down on them?
For me, as long as there is communication, it should be okay. I'm not english teacher after all. However, I do helping children in rural area in my country to learn english. Some people are not as lucky as us to be able to speak & write english fluently. Instead of point out their mistakes, why don't we just ignore the grammar/spelling error? It's a forum after all, As long as u can communicate with other members, it should be okay. It will be sad if because of these thing, people stop posting their opinion on the forum. My English is not good, I'm quite glad with my C in my O level, knowing that I only learn English since 4 years ago.

 

[Witness]

tt's the spirit..

 

[moos blues]

To the dear poster/starter of thread

technically speaking i find this "bad english" a form of ethnolinguistic identity we have here in these forums... and we should encourage it.

You may not have assimilated into this forum entirely or partly, or other forums, therefore you find the need to change the forums... Well this to some may deem you boh liao and siao.

However, there is a scientific explaination to what you are doing.

People choose to speak this way, out of familiarity and social context.


According to Basil Bernstein, speech or what we are typing right now is constrained by the circumstances of the moment. This would imply that it symbolizes not what can be done, but what IS done with different degrees of frequency.

This is however only part of the Bernstein Hypothesis

so you see its a choice, a form of communication. So why use proper english when the majority of us have chosen a form of english or what not to communicate with? is the english you want to have any more effective?

Point to ponder.

or are u are victim of cultural imperialism?

OH yah reading back i dint answer why u are doing this... well thats a whole bunch of words and i wont go into... boring. But. as in line with the hypo at hand, it says that speech can be a restrictive code (that you cant break into, or for other reasons dont get) or an elaborated code.


i say PLUR! haha peace Love Unity and ReSPEcT!!!

 

[nightbreed]

Thank you all for your comments. Some of you have been nice. Some not. Some have deliberately chosen to misunderstand me. Some have taken up the task of correcting me. Thank you. The problem with forums is that people make judgements based on what you post, not who you are. But I will apologise again to those have felt offended and insulted by my corrections. It was not done out of animosity nor disrespect to you.

Larry, you CAN embark on a crusade. Just like you can embark on a business venture, or on a new career.

"A Crusade to rid badly written and punctuated English in any forum..."

You're using "To rid" to refer to "free or remove" in your sentence. Hence it is awkwardly structured since you neglected to use a preposition such as "of". Your sentence would have been much clearer if you had phrased it as "A Crusade to get rid of badly written and punctuated English in any forum" or "A Crusade to rid badly written and punctuated English out of any forum".

I agree. Thanks!

"Your sentence is also a fragmented one in case you didn't notice."

I agree! I did say "By no means am I the most qualified person to do this. I am not even an authority on the Language."!

""I will re-write any examples of bad English I come across and re-post it again in its corrected form."

That's a redundant repetition of your verb. To "re-post" already denotes to "post it again". Hence, in effect, you're saying, "I will post it again again"."

Yes. My mistake.

""So take this how you will."

The correct use of that phase is "Take this as you will" or "Take this however you will"."

Hmm. Not too sure. But I will concede the point. Thanks.

To Wolfgang:

original: Teachers being paid professionals, points out their charge's mistakes in school. Please do not try to associate yourself to such a noble profession.

edited: Teachers, being paid professionals, point out their charges' mistakes in school. Please do not try to associate yourself with such a noble profession.

original: Food for thought. You hide behind the anonyminity of the screen, correcting grammer, sentences and spelling and all the while being quite patronzing. Maybe, one day, you should join us at one of our outing and if we happen to have an on-going conversation, why don't you try to butt in and correct whatever mistake you spot. Lets see how many times you can do so before someone finds you a pain.

edited: Food for thought. (oh, how I HATE this cliche). You hide behind the anonymity of the screen, correcting grammar, sentences and spelling; all the while being quite patroniz(s)ing (because the guy called me anal-retentive, but I won't do it again. Except maybe to you. Because you are. Patronising, I mean). Maybe one day you should join us at one of our outings (ooh, will I still be welcome? I'd like that!) and while we're having a conversation, try to butt in to correct whatever mistakes you spot. (I do that to my friends, you know? They seem to be more tolerant and appreciative of it than some of you) Let's see how many times you can do so before someone finds you a pain.

To Darren:

original: Let me rephrase and re-clarify what I meant

edited: Let me rephrase and (not sure, word may not be correct) what I meant...

original: your so-called crusade is almost violating on our Term #7

edited: your so-called crusade is almost violating Term #7...

original: I say "almost", "if" and "would" here because, for now, your "crusading"/posts have only been in Kopitiam which, by definition, allows for such OT posts.

That's why I only do it here. But I fear I may kicked out soon for what I have done to Wolfgang. In my defence, he HAS written some unpleasant things about me. I have not even been mean or rude to him.

Anyway, it's late. Goodnight!

 

[togu]

Heh,

Don't you just get it? I love chinese, and it's getting important to learn proper chinese, so can I just translate every postings in here to chinese? I love "zen" feel in my office place, so can I just start decorating my workplace? If it's the culture to be, let it be.

We appreciate your effort in improving the forum, however, if your doing irritates any others, which is what you have being doing, please stop.

How about contributing your talent in giving proper photo critiques instead?

Requoting my previous post,

煮 豆 持 作 羹，
漉 豉 以 为 汁，
萁 在 釜 下 燃，
豆 在 釜 中 泣。
本 是 同 根 生，
相 煎 何 太 急。


可惜此殿并无熟读中书之贤人雅士， 一起吟诗做对，纠人语病， 改人瑕疵，做那画中仙， 实乃美中不足， 遗憾之恨事也。

:sweat:

P.S Don't bother to correct my posting, or argue with me, unless you can write chinese. I don't understand queen english.

:angel:

 

[Minoxman]

So should I get the 300D or D70?