Anr of HWZ's spin-off

[denizenx]

I never understood the argument for vinyl. I think it's just nostalgia or fanatics. I mean u just need to spline the DAC output then u'll get the smooth timbre liao, just that splining is expensive for digital equipment.
128kb yeah can hear pop. good enough, although those songs that use anything more than 5 instruments across the scale can hear obvious loss of resolution... (eg water drops and piano and bass and drums. LOL no it's not november rain)
master tapes are digital anyway.
as for mp3 players most brands have one model or two or three now, nothing rare anymore.
hifis are expensive and require rigid setups, unlike photography which can be used as an excuse to roam and is much more interactive.

 

[Gunjack]

I don't think all master tapes are digital. Some are analogue. I am not saying that LPs are superior to digital, coz hifi is largely subjective. But I was impressed that an old format can sound so good(they were playing rock/blues at a certain store in adelphi) and also much better than many digital system I have heard, except for the very best digital which is more of a match. Must have a listen to it, after that digital seems to have lost coherence and the "body and soul" of the music somehow.

 

[denizenx]

they are digital for the major studios, including remastered archives.
yeah the warmth and timbre is because each signal is "smoothed" over to the next, like real-world, i.e. splined.
Splining is damn hard to attain for digital signals, i.e. antialiasing..
I agree that when it sounds good, analog or digital ultimately dun matter LOL, only THEN will u compare prices and durability. LOL

 

[denizenx]

*pray that this does not turn into a leica vs everyone thread*

 

[Shadus]

heh...dun think will turn flame...just nostagic feeling for me.

yar, digital is mostly acceptable nowadays to be as good as vinyl.
the last i heard vinyl was when i'm real young, like 8,9 yrs old. Nvr forget it. Its soooo smooth.
perhaps still young, so my memory not so accurate liao. SOmemore technology so advanced nowadays.

 

[Bluestrike]

Originally posted by denizenx
*pray that this does not turn into a leica vs everyone thread*

if it does...

SHADUS!!!! I'm coming after you!!!!!

hehehehheheee

Anyway, it under mod by MI!!!

so beware.......

 

[ckiang]

Originally posted by denizenx
I never understood the argument for vinyl. I think it's just nostalgia or fanatics. I mean u just need to spline the DAC output then u'll get the smooth timbre liao, just that splining is expensive for digital equipment.
128kb yeah can hear pop. good enough, although those songs that use anything more than 5 instruments across the scale can hear obvious loss of resolution... (eg water drops and piano and bass and drums. LOL no it's not november rain)
master tapes are digital anyway.
as for mp3 players most brands have one model or two or three now, nothing rare anymore.
hifis are expensive and require rigid setups, unlike photography which can be used as an excuse to roam and is much more interactive.

It's not a nostalgic thing (hey, to qualify, I am no LP listener), LPs do sound better on a good setup. It's not just "splining" the DAC output, whatever you meant by that. People think LPs are bad because most LP setups are horrendous, and they never take care of LPs so it sounds noisy.

In a hifi show, I had the opportunity to listen to the same track both on a high end LP and high end CD Player through the same speakers and amplifiers in the same room. The LP version simply sounded more dynamic.

Analog and digital is just different. I am not saying digital is no good, it's just different. Good analog can sound better than average/bad digital. In fact, I have several AAD and ADD discs which sound good, better than DDD.

16/44 is really not enough for music to shine through in a typical CD, that's why you have technologies like HDCD, XRCD to squeeze in more information into the 16/44 tracks. Higher resolution recordings such as those on SACD/DVD-A is closer to the original analog waveform, and has less of the digital edge.

Hifi need not be expensive - hey, a reasonably good one can be had for less than a DSLR, a good budget one for less than a consumer digicam. And they don't depreciate as much too!

Regards
CK

 

[ckiang]

Originally posted by Shadus
heh...dun think will turn flame...just nostagic feeling for me.

yar, digital is mostly acceptable nowadays to be as good as vinyl.
the last i heard vinyl was when i'm real young, like 8,9 yrs old. Nvr forget it. Its soooo smooth.
perhaps still young, so my memory not so accurate liao. SOmemore technology so advanced nowadays.

No, it's not because "you are still young, can't remember". A good LP setup can sound better than CD playback. Trust me, I don't have one, but I've heard good LP playback many, many times liao.

Regards
CK

 

[ckiang]

Originally posted by Gunjack
Yups... I know, hahah!

It's a pity so little recording company use these superior encoding formats for their CDs. We deserve it for the amount we pay for CDs. Then only will a good recording get better with a better system.

Things are changing. I see more mainstream labels going into HDCDs now. Just the other day, I saw CDs of artistes like Sinatra, etc on HDCD. And of coz, you also have those regular audiophile titles by Cai Qin, Theresa Teng, etc on XRCD and HDCD as well. And even HDCD or SACD version of Chen Bai Xiang (whatever his english name is)!

Regards
CK

 

[denizenx]

haha turning into a pixellation vs grain thingy..
yeah 16-bits is not enough sampling vs real-grain LP...
I haven't heard top-end of both either, my ears aren't that good nor that into audio lol.
but it is true that once sampling is high enough, there is no longer an argument for vinyl?

 

[ckiang]

Originally posted by denizenx
haha turning into a pixellation vs grain thingy..
yeah 16-bits is not enough sampling vs real-grain LP...
I haven't heard top-end of both either, my ears aren't that good nor that into audio lol.
but it is true that once sampling is high enough, there is no longer an argument for vinyl?

You gotta go listen my friend. It's day and night, not just discernable by the so-called "Golden Ears".

Must also remember that once you reach a certain point, a higher sampling rate and sample size will no longer make a difference. Then there's this "feel" issue, the quality might be there, but the LP sound still got that special "feel" to it. And LP doesn't have to sound noisy, with all those hiss, crackle and pop.

The direct analogy would be B&W prints. REAL B&W prints have that special feel to it that no digital B&W can replicate. Yes, they are emulate to a certain extent but it's still "not there".

Regards
CK

 

[Gunjack]

In fact, the occasional hiss crackle and pop of vinyl does not seem to distract from its ability to play music. It seems to make all kinds of music sound good. The smoothness of valves to me is an aquired taste. They sound great with many vocal and simple music, but I don't think would stand up against Prodigy or Pantera kind of music which I also listen to. The "glare and harshness" of many digital formats does distract from the listening experience. It also gets a single bitstream of data and then try to make it into stereo/whatever, whereas I think analogue system are inherently 2 channel already, maybe that adds up to more distortion. I, in fact, would buy a LP player if not for the fact that it is not easy to find or cheap to buy LPs in Singapore.

 

[Shadus]

You know, 12 yrs ago when my grandma moved place to HDB, they throw away 100s of LP
:cry:

Thinking that they're worthless ....

 

[Wai]

For those who dunno....there is also another spin-off from HWZ's review column since a year ago...

;p

another spin-off from HWZ's fitness forum is coming out REALLY soon too

 

[denizenx]

heh like gunjack I dun think GNR or metallica on LP will sound any different...

let' try a different example about sampling... how many think the local TV system is still in analogue?

 

[ckiang]

Originally posted by denizenx
heh like gunjack I dun think GNR or metallica on LP will sound any different...

let' try a different example about sampling... how many think the local TV system is still in analogue?

It will. The demo track I've heard in the demo I mentioned earlier is "Money for Nothing", dunno by who, I am not into rock. The LP one sounded more lively and dynamic.

Local TV System is still analogue. Otherwise you'd be buying new TVs already. Digital TV will need a digital TV set, or a settop box.

Regards
CK

 

[Wai]

Originally posted by ckiang

Local TV System is still analogue. Otherwise you'd be buying new TVs already. Digital TV will need a digital TV set, or a settop box.

hmm...are u sure?

i think it is BOTH digital and analogue liao

i tried this Hauppauge Digital TV card (for PC) at home..

http://www.reviewmakers.com/showdoc.php?review=25

and i have to use the antenna point to recieve the channel

if i use those indoor antenna, it will not works.....

Taken using this Digital TV card....

Taken using Hauppauge WinTV PVR (one of the most expensive TV card out there)

btw, to obtain the screen shot above...first i have to record the program and compress to Mpeg-2 format, and then playback with WinDVD to take screen shot, cos at the point of review, the software cannot capture screen shot yet. Therefore if you watch it live...it will be even better than you record.

 

[ckiang]

Originally posted by Wai


hmm...are u sure?

i think it is BOTH digital and analogue liao

i tried this Hauppauge Digital TV card (for PC) at home..

and i have to use the antenna point to recieve the channel

if i use those indoor antenna, it will not works.....

Taken using this Digital TV card....
Taken using Hauppauge WinTV PVR (one of the most expensive TV card out there)

You just said it yourself, you used a Hauppauge WinTV Digital TV card.

Your regular TV cannot receive digital TV without a settop box, or buying a digital TV set.

Regards
CK

 

[ckiang]

Wait, I got confused (And got others confused, sorry! :embrass: )


Regards
CK

 

[Wai]

Originally posted by ckiang

Local TV System is still analogue.

just to let u know that it is now both analogue and digital already...

yes...u need a setup box or digital TV set or Digital TV card.

btw, is digital TV out in the market yet?