Why shoot models?

[Jose]

Let's continue tomorrow.

 

[Deadpoet]

Do you understand my point or are you just dense? It is NOT about the demand and supply. It is a question of ethics. Will you allow yourself to be called among the same people who attend these shoots?

Once again, before anyone else asks for the umpteenth time. Not Demand//Supply. Ethics.

Will you count yourself among the CSers who join private nude/bikini/etc shoots for the skin-fest, but are unwilling to admit it? Intead they blemish the good name of clubsnap by calling themselves photographers, when they truly just want to see flesh?

Do you want these people to continue to use the word Clubsnap as an excuse? Is that the purpose of your forum?

Scrutiny? Why do we need scrutiny? And what about "ethics"? And what is your problem?

What we have here is just another moron, who wants to impose his own values, whatever it may be, onto others.

Whoever and whatever any one of us want to shoot, is none of Jose's concern. Why we shoot models, nude or otherwise, is none of Jose's concern. We do not owe Jose or anyone any explanation.

In the case of Jose, he is not looking for explanations. We can explain all we want. This is pointless. What he wants is condemnation of photography gnere he does not agree with. He wants to be the moral police, he wants to be the guardian of what is allowed and what is not. I for one do not believe he really meant it , when he said:

It is an interesting point and i'm glad you brought it up. Yes it is a pic of a sexy gal, and yes i like to look at it. It turns me on. And i would like everyone to be as bluntly honest as my last sentence was.

If he likes to look at pictires of "sexy" girls, then, Jose, what is your problem again? How would CS's name be blemished? Why is there an ethics issue? I have no idea why, I asked because you brought them up.

Jose, BUZZ OFF!

 

[Klose]

priveleges

Eh newbie, brush up your spelling. Privileges. +1 :bsmilie:

 

[eow]

I've been wondering, i mean, i'm new here, but why are there so many photographers going for model shoots? They look expensive but everyone just pays to go look at pretty girls. Is it really about the skill of portraiture or is it the bikini babes?

If its just for the subject, why not ask a girlfriend, or someone who costs nothing?

If its for the babes? Then why not go to a pub? It's cheaper too

Jose.

mai ge ge bro...
if u not into nude shoot or bikini shoots in the first place
u won't pose these question at all or even bother abt it
do u pity the model or simply held the photographers in contempt?
one party pays to shoot n the other party being paid it a win win situation....secondly it hard to question the intention of the shooters...but who care!

So long as nobody is hurt,limbs intact and happy..why bother.

 

[Astin]

If u shoot pretty girls everyday, it can become quite boring after a while, trust me.

 

[Wolfgang]

Go do it. I'm not stopping you. If you're genuine, it will show! If you are not, it's also plainly obvious! And i see many are not....

Dear Jose, i reckon you must think yourself to be the special one... (Ok, if you didn't catch that joke, then it's probably because you don't really enjoy watching premeirship soccer)

Now, I like the fact you raised this issue and it was a long long long time ago when i once raised it and this particular question you are asking seem to make its appearance everyone once in awhile.

While I do appreciate the fact that you are trying to illuminate the very essence of some of these shoot, it wouldn't be fair for anyone of us, you, me or anyone else to make anyway look at such photo shoot the very same way you do.

I have met photographers who genuinely wants to learn but have no luck in getting friends to allow them to do a shoot. Friends will also be uncomfortable in posing for you in a bikini unless you are able to absolutely convince them of your intentions. (which is to practise photography?)

Now, you have make an excellent point which i have quoted above and my answer to you is, you are absolutely right. If one is genuine, it will show. If he or she isn't, then it's also pretty obvious. You need to understand and realise that not everyone will share the same rationale and mindset as you and neither will they be convinced by a 3rd party once they have convinced and rationalised it to themselves.

I wouldn't delve into whether that is considered "proper" or not because it would be unfair for anyone to judge everyone else for their intentions. As it is, there is always 2 parts for a person to be convicted of a "crime", which is "mens rea" & "actus reus" which summuarily means the intention behind the act and the actual act itself.

To be fair, I have seen some photographers doing really well in terms of making really great pictures after joining photoshoots but of course, there are also some pictures that don't deserve to see the light of day but nonetheless, it is still up to the photographer himself to make the choice to post or not to post, to participate or not to.

It's a free market out there. If anyone wishes to participate in a photoshoot, dodgy or otherwise, i reckon it is honestly up to them to make that choice. Jose, I do applaud your efforts but you need to understand that this. While we can try to sway people around us with our ideals and what we consider as being "honest", we cannot "demand" that they do it because i honestly reckon that would just cause them to be more defensive and find even more reasons to justify to themselves why what they do is fine.

I do hope you take this post in the right spirit.

Thank you.

 

[Brandon]

Once again, before anyone else asks for the umpteenth time. Not Demand//Supply. Ethics.

Will you count yourself among the CSers who join private nude/bikini/etc shoots for the skin-fest, but are unwilling to admit it? Intead they blemish the good name of clubsnap by calling themselves photographers, when they truly just want to see flesh?

Do you want these people to continue to use the word Clubsnap as an excuse? Is that the purpose of your forum?

There will always be people who join model shoot or whatever shoot not for photographic reasons alone. And the reasons can varies from simply to meet new friends with similar hobbies or of course simply being a pervert :dunno:

However, we can't always decipher which are the genuinely interested in photography and which are not, even if we can, then what? Ban them from joining future shoots? Ban them from Clubsnap?

I think it is good for you to be able to recognise ethical and unethical behaviour in this area, however, not everybody would share the same view with you, and forcing your view on everybody are always frowned upon as in extreme cases it would be just like the terrorist we hear so much today in the news.

Of course If you feel strongly about your view and think that view should be what everyone has in mind, you should win people over to your camp instead of shooting them down or calling them names. It is like inviting people to come to your house because you know for a fact that your house is the most beautiful one in the area, instead of throwing stones at other people house because theirs are uglier than your house.

I digress... Back to your other issue of people blemishing Clubsnap reputation, for me personally that is a non issue. Clubsnap is more like a convenient meeting place for people who like photography. So I think when people say that they are CSers, it simply means a person who like to frequent this meeting place, which is different from being a member of a society which has its own set of code of conducts or what have you. Whatever activities going on around this "dodgy" area would still be overshadowed by the facts that most of the discussion take place in this meeting place is about photography. Of course it is possible for the dodgy things to grow out of hand becoming more prominent than photography, but if that time come, I'm sure the moderators here are wise enough to take action such as banning adverts for sexy model shoot or other measures to curb it. The way things stand right now, I'm not even slightly bothered by it.

I hope I made enough sense up there and didn't offend anyone in the process

 

[Sjourn]

for whatever reasons opposite attracts, nudity attracts. Peolple with money want to see and shoot live what to do? Some are genuine, some go for fun, some are plain pervs...its thier money they are parting with.

for me, TFCD anytime, I don't pay to shoot "models"., unless they are really pro and worthwhile.

 

[Zplus]

I shoot models too.... and I pay anything between $20 to $100 for a model and after fixing them up I am able to shoot them.... I get to pose them anyway I like.... it does not mean I have a model fetish....

Here's a pose of my model....

.... maybe I have a plastic fetish.....;p

Life's too short to ask too many useless "why's".... just shoot more and you will be better...

 

[Garion]

If u shoot pretty girls everyday, it can become quite boring after a while, trust me.

But then again, many ppl are still shooting them leh. How can it be that boring? :bsmilie:

 

[ndroo]

I've been wondering, i mean, i'm new here, but why are there so many photographers going for model shoots? They look expensive but everyone just pays to go look at pretty girls. Is it really about the skill of portraiture or is it the bikini babes?

If its just for the subject, why not ask a girlfriend, or someone who costs nothing?

If its for the babes? Then why not go to a pub? It's cheaper too

Jose.

I guess it's individual preference. I don't really shoot models/portraits though :bsmilie:

Cheaper to go to a pub? No way, I spend lots more :bsmilie:

Shoot friends? No way, they're all too drunk to pose :bsmilie:

 

[jsbn]

A little expensive don't you think? I could come up with lots of alternatives to good clean fun. And yes, there are VERY dodgy sounding shoots going on. Something fishy going on behind closed doors?

Jose.

Well, like I'd always said.

Think its expensive? Dun shoot. :dunno:

Alternatives to good clean fun? Ok loh u have ur brand of fun. :dunno:

Very dodgy sounding shoots going on, something fishy going on behind closed doors? If it infringes on ur personal or religious morals so much, den dun attend or lobby a petition with people holding same sentiments to impose legislation to ban such private model shoots. :dunno:

If a photographer, on a one-on-one model shooting session thinks dirty, his pictures would be reflective of his mind. Think dirty, shoot dirty.

Which are u?

 

[mattlock]

So people go to shoot half naked girls to get off
Well, admit it

I do that too! difference is that I would never pay 80 bucks and I do it one on one.hee hee hee

Does it spoil the good name of photography? hrrrm. Depends on whether you think that women are so uptight about such things, and whether people don't already know that photography is used as a tool to ogle.

Many of the sexy shots you see in magazines require a photographer with a perverse imagination to pull off that sexiness

thus I conclude that many photographers are really all a bunch of horny bas tards. Join the family! or go take pictures of rocks, that works too

 

[KNIGHT ONG]

Interesting thread ... :bsmilie:

 

[jsbn]

Eh newbie, brush up your spelling. Privileges. +1 :bsmilie:

no more +1 liaoz lah deh...

But heck, for the fun of it. +1. :bsmilie:

 

[jsbn]

Scrutiny? Why do we need scrutiny? And what about "ethics"? And what is your problem?

I guess his problem is that of a chap who highly regards himself as 'the pole of integrity and morals'.

In the case of Jose, he is not looking for explanations. We can explain all we want. This is pointless. What he wants is condemnation of photography gnere he does not agree with. He wants to be the moral police, he wants to be the guardian of what is allowed and what is not. I for one do not believe he really meant it , when he said:

Well, u know some people.... I guess u'd probably encountered them. They just go around condemning 'evils of the society' like action movies, movies with a religious theme, sexy stuff and sit at home in the dead of the night weed-whacking.

THere are just so many such ppl around.

If he likes to look at pictires of "sexy" girls, then, Jose, what is your problem again? How would CS's name be blemished? Why is there an ethics issue? I have no idea why, I asked because you brought them up.

I guess he thinks that CS is the 'central authority for photographers' when despite the fact that CS is basically another forum out there with a huge member base and its NOT a central controlling authority of sorts.

Juz another moron. Read his stuff and luff.

 

[jdredd]

went for my first model bikini shoot recently.

i really dont see what the big fuss is, if people want to perv, who cares? i dont think theres not a man here who hasnt perved at one way, stage intheir life (and ill bet theres hardly a man here who hasnt looked at porn at some stage intheir lifes either)

i just thought it was a really fun thing to do. for the same price as a round of golf for me, or a couple of rounds of drinks at a club, i got a chance to hang out withsome experienced photographers, picked up some tips, practised my portrait photography skills and yes, admire the beauty on display.

and i see there are advantages to having such models for shoots. firstly, they know what to do, so i could concentrate on just shooting, rather than "directing". they also are perfectly comfortable doing it, even in public,whereas if i got a friend to do it, definitely they would feel a bit weird, unless they were one of those exhibitionist types.. also, im not obliged to the models at the end of the day because they get paid for it, so all in all, win win for everyone.

 

[Phildate]

Agree with Mattlock on this one. Open any UK photo magazine and it's full of adverts for glamour models wanting photogs to pay to shoot them or for organised glamour model shoots. Men all over the world want to see and photograph good-looking women in various states of undress - nothing particularly wrong with it and I don't think anyone should really question the ethics of such a pursuit. It's certainly not a Clubsnap epidemic - go to OMP and see the number of women in America posing for glamour work.

If you don't know loads of gorgeous women like Mattlock prepared to shed their clothes at a blink of his eye or shutter, then why not pay for an organised shoot? Don't see any problems with that - and if you turn up with disposable camera then more time to focus attention on the girl and not worry about your spot metetring etc etc...

For those who get all worked up over this, rent a copy of RENT (and watch it!) and learn to tolerate other people and how they choose to live their life.

 

[vince123123]

Care to share what these alternatives are?

As for the nude part, there are less sleazy alternatives to a red-light district studio or a hotel room. Honestly, you can't be so narrow minded.

Jose.

 

[jsbn]

Maybe he'd like to do photoshoot of Nuns and Monks instead. :bsmilie: