Sad and disappointed (Previously a happy Nikon User)

[Cheesecake]

IMHO Nothing to do with RGB... Even if you cannot view and print Adobe RGB, always work in the largest colour space possible, like Melissa RGB, and export in sRGB for print or screen.

Actuallu, I have seen TS's photos prior to this skin tone issue here. I don't see any problem with the skin tone, although its not fantastic, its not bad or screaming for skin tone adjustment.

sorry but i have to disagree, on my part la.

my working RGB is always tied to the printing lab as my end product will always get printed.

thus, it is of paramount importance to my workflow.


but i understand that the TS might have another different way of working.

 

[george671]

Not sure why you need full frame for your work, but I still think the output (skin tone etc) from my two Fuji S3 pro's is tops...Of course they are not speed demons and I also use several much more modern Nikons and a Canon 5D, as well as a couple of Oly pens for street work... In the studio, sometimes the lighting (strobes) can wreak havoc with your skin tone as well so its best to really know what your lights are doing. (color temperature wise).

Cheers

 

[sykestang]

Hmmm TS mentioned so much about CaptureNX and Lightroom... anyone ever tried to correct Nikon camera output by using curve?

Frankly, Nikon camera out of box picture quality is not good... but after some use the camera will be better. Want faster learning curve, custom a curve you like into the camera!

Been using Nikon for the past 20yrs+ and no complains... but been pass on with a canon camera for 15mins, and I can give you all the cons. :bsmilie:

 

[surrephoto]

sorry but i have to disagree, on my part la.

my working RGB is always tied to the printing lab as my end product will always get printed.

thus, it is of paramount importance to my workflow.


but i understand that the TS might have another different way of working.

I value your advice but using photoshop only doesn't work as I'm always working with bulk images... at least 400 - 600 imgs per wedding.

I'm not that kind of person who shoots JPEGs and dump to my clients, it's just a form of personal responsibility to check the colours first.

As for the colour profile... This is imho a serious problem for Nikon users because I think "Adobe Standard" and the camera simulating profiles for Nikon is not close to perfect yet (view in capturenx you'll see e difference). Adobe standard used to work very well when I used canon, thats where everything screwed up when it started to look bad in nikon.

As for the working RGB, no choice because you can only view the images in Melissa RGB (100% scale)... this is the stupidest part about lightroom of course! :sweat:

Not sure why you need full frame for your work, but I still think the output (skin tone etc) from my two Fuji S3 pro's is tops...Of course they are not speed demons and I also use several much more modern Nikons and a Canon 5D, as well as a couple of Oly pens for street work... In the studio, sometimes the lighting (strobes) can wreak havoc with your skin tone as well so its best to really know what your lights are doing. (color temperature wise).

Cheers

Thanks for your advice but I do not wish to discuss about sensor format in this thread. I have my and know very well my reasons for full-frame and have no wish to compromise... has been discussed to death between me and my peers.

Hmmm TS mentioned so much about CaptureNX and Lightroom... anyone ever tried to correct Nikon camera output by using curve?

Frankly, Nikon camera out of box picture quality is not good... but after some use the camera will be better. Want faster learning curve, custom a curve you like into the camera!

Been using Nikon for the past 20yrs+ and no complains... but been pass on with a canon camera for 15mins, and I can give you all the cons. :bsmilie:

I did do some research into this... after the lightroom problems are solved, I will look at custom curves in view/capturenx again.

Special thanks to Kentwong81 for introducing the PS Kiss cross-camera. After purchasing the D700 profiles and using the "1Ds III Standard" & "1Ds III Landscape" profiles... they surprisingly worked well and improved the look, saturation and the actual values of the skintone on my D700. When you thought I was kidding, the 20D portrait-mode simulating profiles actually do look like the bygone-days canon portrait mode reddish look!

 

[Cheesecake]

I value your advice but using photoshop only doesn't work as I'm always working with bulk images... at least 400 - 600 imgs per wedding.

I'm not that kind of person who shoots JPEGs and dump to my clients, it's just a form of personal responsibility to check the colours first.

As for the colour profile... This is imho a serious problem for Nikon users because I think "Adobe Standard" and the camera simulating profiles for Nikon is not close to perfect yet (view in capturenx you'll see e difference). Adobe standard used to work very well when I used canon, thats where everything screwed up when it started to look bad in nikon.

As for the working RGB, no choice because you can only view the images in Melissa RGB (100% scale)... this is the stupidest part about lightroom of course! :sweat:

Thanks for your advice but I do not wish to discuss about sensor format in this thread. I have my and know very well my reasons for full-frame and have no wish to compromise... has been discussed to death between me and my peers.

I did do some research into this... after the lightroom problems are solved, I will look at custom curves in view/capturenx again.

Special thanks to Kentwong81 for introducing the PS Kiss cross-camera. After purchasing the D700 profiles and using the "1Ds III Standard" & "1Ds III Landscape" profiles... they surprisingly worked well and improved the look, saturation and the actual values of the skintone on my D700. When you thought I was kidding, the 20D portrait-mode simulating profiles actually do look like the bygone-days canon portrait mode reddish look!

In colour management, not only is monitor calibration important, knowin the colour profile of ur printer is jus as important.

I hazard a guess tat u only pass the end product, Jpeg, to ur clients?

U do not provide printouts?

There is Batch Process function in PS, in case u haf nt tried it out.

I would think tat you might need to work hard on ur post processing skills, on top of foundational photography techniques.

At the end of the day, the one with nt only excellent photography skills but good post processing skills wil be at the top of the chain.

You probably haf to work around with wat u haf n make the best of it, unless of cos u wanna jump bk to canon, which of cos as a workin pro, u wil need to work with wat wil really let u shine, instead of worrying over the post processing part.

 

[surrephoto]

In colour management, not only is monitor calibration important, knowin the colour profile of ur printer is jus as important.

I hazard a guess tat u only pass the end product, Jpeg, to ur clients?

U do not provide printouts?

There is Batch Process function in PS, in case u haf nt tried it out.

I would think tat you might need to work hard on ur post processing skills, on top of foundational photography techniques.

At the end of the day, the one with nt only excellent photography skills but good post processing skills wil be at the top of the chain.

You probably haf to work around with wat u haf n make the best of it, unless of cos u wanna jump bk to canon, which of cos as a workin pro, u wil need to work with wat wil really let u shine, instead of worrying over the post processing part.

Thanks for your advice again but I as I've said a couple of times... I do not submit prints to my clients and the main reason that I calibrate my display and work hard to get nice skintone is to assure that my images look decent across the board on as many displays as possible...

To be honest I think workflow for screen viewing and printing is quite different if i recall? Why do you keep emphasizing about the importance of the printer when i've said it's not my priority?

I'm quite confident with my PP skills, just not as confident as before when I have a "better" starting point when I used canon previously.

As I feel that the discussion is coming to an end, I will be closing this thread in the next 12 hrs unless anyone has anymore questions for me or wish to give more advice.

Again thanks all for the help... some have been kind and nice.

 

[Cheesecake]

Thanks for your advice again but I as I've said a couple of times... I do not submit prints to my clients and the main reason that I calibrate my display and work hard to get nice skintone is to assure that my images look decent across the board on as many displays as possible...

To be honest I think workflow for screen viewing and printing is quite different if i recall? Why do you keep emphasizing about the importance of the printer when i've said it's not my priority?

I'm quite confident with my PP skills, just not as confident as before when I have a "better" starting point when I used canon previously.

As I feel that the discussion is coming to an end, I will be closing this thread in the next 12 hrs unless anyone has anymore questions for me or wish to give more advice.

Again thanks all for the help... some have been kind and nice.

ermmm, no. most are not clear as to why their prints turn out differently from what they see on their monitor.

i assume that as a wedding photographer, most would have prints as final product.

thus, you might be unhappy with the skin tone when you printed out your final work.

since you only give your clients the digital copies and there is no complaint, then i guess you're doing fine.


hope you enjoy ur fotography, which of course inevitably includes switching of camera brands along the way.


huat ah!

 

[Jeremy1]

Before you close this thread, I was wondering will an ExpoDisc help in this area ?

Sorry, I am just a hobbyist & had no experience with the ExpoDisc.

Thanks.

 

[spree86]

Before you close this thread, I was wondering will an ExpoDisc help in this area ?

Sorry, I am just a hobbyist & had no experience with the ExpoDisc.

Thanks.

ExpoDisc is only for correcting white balance, it doesn't do anything about skin tones

 

[coolthought]

I value your advice but using photoshop only doesn't work as I'm always working with bulk images... at least 400 - 600 imgs per wedding.

I'm not that kind of person who shoots JPEGs and dump to my clients, it's just a form of personal responsibility to check the colours first.

As for the colour profile... This is imho a serious problem for Nikon users because I think "Adobe Standard" and the camera simulating profiles for Nikon is not close to perfect yet (view in capturenx you'll see e difference). Adobe standard used to work very well when I used canon, thats where everything screwed up when it started to look bad in nikon.

As for the working RGB, no choice because you can only view the images in Melissa RGB (100% scale)... this is the stupidest part about lightroom of course! :sweat:

just a suggestion on post processing which you probably know...
if you shoot in raw, you can save the adjustment in a raw photo as a preset and use it for the follow one. This is assuming there is a very consistent color(wb) and exposure for all the photos and you can batch process the whole lot after pp the first one. This way regardless what colour profile... you can pp the color to your preferred style for the hundreds of photo quickly

 

[subzero]

I like this thread, objective and straight to the point. No war started.

 

[daredevil123]

ExpoDisc is only for correcting white balance, it doesn't do anything about skin tones

That doesn't, but this does...

X-rite ColorChecker Passport card - Review

 

[spree86]

That doesn't, but this does...

X-rite ColorChecker Passport card - Review

Hmm, the Amazon price seems pretty reasonable

 

[surrephoto]

ExpoDisc is only for correcting white balance, it doesn't do anything about skin tones

To some extent. However getting a good custom WB does improve skintones on the D700 abit... the bad AWB in D700 is part of the recipe for the disastrous "greenish cast" and dirty skintones in non sunlight conditions.

just a suggestion on post processing which you probably know...
if you shoot in raw, you can save the adjustment in a raw photo as a preset and use it for the follow one. This is assuming there is a very consistent color(wb) and exposure for all the photos and you can batch process the whole lot after pp the first one. This way regardless what colour profile... you can pp the color to your preferred style for the hundreds of photo quickly

Of course we can process images by batch dependent on lighting condition. However in practicality it works well enough but not very. In mixed lighting conditions and fluorescent light, every millisecond of time difference and where you stand in a room (eg hotel environment) can throw you very off from the last bunch of pictures you took at the previous point. That's why I rely on the additional step of checking the RGB values. My method of correcting skintone in photoshop after raw export does not need a preset so i'm okay with that.

I like this thread, objective and straight to the point. No war started.

Thanks, this is the point of the thread. The truth is that colour is a very sensitive topic. But based on my personal survey and experience, there are more than enough reasons to question and improve (technologically and personally) how Nikon skintones look for asians. The good news is that it has improved significantly in the last few years.

That doesn't, but this does...

X-rite ColorChecker Passport card - Review

Hmm, the Amazon price seems pretty reasonable

I have the colorchecker passport and to be honest it only works in single lighting conditions eg studio. Colour rendition is also very similar to ACR 4.6 (not sure about older versions) just that there are deviations in different camera bodies so we use the chart to calibrate. However if you are shooting in a mix lighting condition, passport checker is the sure passport to disastrous color especially if your subject and background has a light of a different tint/wb (very common for natural light shooters like me).

Pleasant skintone is not neccesary but CAN be accurate, and what is accurate is misleading judged by how our eyes remember or interpret a scene... basically playing tricks on us to make everything look nice and balanced.

 

[nickzkcin]

I have the colorchecker passport and to be honest it only works in single lighting conditions eg studio. Colour rendition is also very similar to ACR 4.6 (not sure about older versions) just that there are deviations in different camera bodies so we use the chart to calibrate. However if you are shooting in a mix lighting condition, passport checker is the sure passport to disastrous color especially if your subject and background has a light of a different tint/wb (very common for natural light shooters like me).

+1 to this. have the colour checker passport. useless in events. great for outdoor landscapes however

 

[Jeremy1]

[video=youtube;V39n1J8IgpA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V39n1J8IgpA[/video]

This one look a bit complicated. Maybe Expodisc will be better for those who are lazy.

 

[nickzkcin]

its not complicated at all. just take a pic with the checker passport in the frame, and process that through the profile maker.

you can apply that profile to any subsequent photos in the same lighting. extreme stress on 'in the same lighting'. which is why its a situational tool; awesome for studio portraits(get the model to hold it for your first shot) and landscapes. not so much for events when you move around and the lighting changes with every shot.

 

[Anson]

I use both Nikon and Canon system and I can attest to the fact that Canon has the better servicing user-experience hands-down.

Based on what was recently reported -> http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/canon/1013980-7d-weather-sealing-problem-solved.html seem Canon Service Centre is more open to reasoning.

As I am not a Nikon user, I would reserve my comment on the NSC. Maybe other would like to share their experience instead? Personally I find that CSC services acceptable with or without having to show my CPS membership at the counter. Just my 2 cents.

 

[spree86]

Based on what was recently reported -> http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/canon/1013980-7d-weather-sealing-problem-solved.html seem Canon Service Centre is more open to reasoning.

As I am not a Nikon user, I would reserve my comment on the NSC. Maybe other would like to share their experience instead? Personally I find that CSC services acceptable with or without having to show my CPS membership at the counter. Just my 2 cents.

Personally, I don't quite like NSC's service.

This one case happened to me, my 35mm f1.8 had a little back focusing issue, so I sent it to NSC to get it calibrated. The technician called me the next day and told me that, yes, there is a back focusing issue on the lens, however, it is within factory standards and they are not obligated to calibrate it. So I told him that since he admitted that there is an issue, maybe he could do something about it. In the end, the service centre returned the lens to me uncalibrated claiming that it was within standards. Very disappointed with the service from then on.

 

[Zenten]

Bro, do not overlook the MA if you are experiencing AF issues ...... It could be your lifesaver ....... Dun risk it.