pm vs blogger

[Octarine]

So you would suggest that comments and opinions should always be expressed more objectively?

Of course. Talk about the topic, not the person (unless the issue is really person). I can see that many people are not agreeable with the way the CPF money is used. That's normal and can have many reasons. These reasons should be discussed, nothing else.
Calling a PM a criminal is as questionable as suing a person into bankruptcy for a few lose words that hardly get any attention.

 

[Foxshade]

Of course. Talk about the topic, not the person (unless the issue is really person).

Couldn't agree more.

Now I was thinking, what if after the blogger accumulated the so called fund to fight PM, suddenly PM back pedaled and drop the case before proceeding starts. Some will brand PM magnanimous, and at the same time that will leave the blogger with lots of $ with the whole country's eyes on him. One wrong move with the cash, he'll be condemned by his own supporter.

Return the cash? That's a lot of admin works to do. Imagine 70k some comprised of $2 donation...... :bsmilie:

 

[rhino123]

Frankly... I don't sympathize with the blogger. I mean... if you have evidence (solid evidence) on the claim that he made, then present it... sue the PM. If not... it is just his own opinions and some opinion is better kept to himself.

As to how to return the fund if our dear PM back pedaled and drop the case. I think it is agreeable that it is not possible or at least very difficult to return money to all those that contributed. However an account can be set up easily, with these moneys put in this account. Then notified the public that the money will be used for charity purposes and all record kept carefully and in detail... timely information was to be told to the public as and when there is a transaction and stuff like that until the money is all gone. Then the account can be closed. Simple.

 

[Foxshade]

Frankly... I don't sympathize with the blogger. I mean... if you have evidence (solid evidence) on the claim that he made, then present it... sue the PM. If not... it is just his own opinions and some opinion is better kept to himself.

The blogger is clearly in the wrong beyond any doubt. Somehow, somebody painted the PM as a bully. Since there are many victims of bully sometime in their life, accumulated defamation case from his father together with sad pictures of those who kena defamation suits before, etc... the blogger suddenly became the lesser evil.

How the whole thing turn out today really surprise me. PM need to replace whole of his PR team or campaign mgr and the lawyers.

 

[Kit]

PR team or campaign mgr and the lawyers are not the only ones that needs replacement.

 

[NineEleven]

Most of us have actually not heard of Roy until the suit & that's when people start to Google.

So, how many of you here have read his postings?

On the contrary, some of us in the business world feels that the PM has own goaled this time. Yes, he will win but he has also lost.

Most of us including yours truly don't question when life's peaceful but as one ages & retire, you'll need money so you look into CPF, aka our State Pension Fund then you'll be in for an awful surprise.

Also, our late President Ong Teck Cheong wanted to look into state accounts using his capacity but hit a wall.
http://www-cgi.cnn.com/ASIANOW/asiaweek/magazine/2000/0310/nat.singapore.ongiv.html

 

[s1221ljc]

I've just finished reading The Heart Truths. I feel sorry for him. It appears he's quite ignorant, simplistic, misguided, misinformed & rather mischievous. He's mistaken the CPF for a personal bank account or private investment fund.

Reading what's written is like hearing from someone who probably failed his exam paper on finance trying to understand & explain the real world global financial system to a layman. If I may say so, it sounds like its coming from a new, much younger generation derived from foreign imports who do not know how Singapore came about & how it works. Until some chance discovery which comes as a shock. Like a tourist finding out that one will be fined for not flushing the toilet! Or like hearing someone screaming that he has been robbed when CPF deductions are made from his salaries without his authorisation... "Who gave the CPF the right to take away MY money?" :bsmilie: Reminds me of some of the accusations, denouncements & resistance when CPF first started, before it was accepted by the people. This is alright but unfortunately there is too much rage, anger & vitriol, derived perhaps from other unresolved issues, sense of injustice felt [like failure to repeal Section 377A of the Penal Code perhaps?]

Are Singaporean really that ignorant & stupid if what he said was true??? Have we been conned & cheated for the past 50 years or so without knowing it??? :bsmilie:

 

[Kit]

So I guess going after an ignorant, simplistic, misguided, misinformed & rather mischievous blogger is the way to go.....

A golden opportunity to score some brownie points by simply rebutting is lost.

 

[s1221ljc]

I was just trying to be nice. To discuss the CPF part & not to repeat, much less try to justify, the defamatory remarks, esp here in CS (thread may be closed) Remember I said :

Alleging, accusing, a person of incompetence or negligence, even gross stupidity, may be acceptable, but slandering or defaming that person by insinuating, saying he is dishonest & has committed a criminal act is not. Especially if its against a prominent person holding high public office who seriously values integrity, trust, honour & reputation. Unless one has proof.

Lets not be naïve, heroic or altruistic. If YOU are a rich, powerful & prominent person of high social & public standing, often in the news & limelight, proud of & jealousy guard your integrity, honour & reputation, would you not take the same stance against me if I make unfounded, scurrilous & defamatory accusations against you? Or you will just live & let live or believe you can change, educate & reform me even if I do show the slightest intention of listening & continue to spread the lies about you? What if I have hidden agendas to take you down & have scores to settle? If I made the false accusations, its my job to set it right, if I was mistaken, its my responsibility to apologise. Why is the onus on you to clarify? I should perhaps check with others for independent opinion & advice & do some serious rethink, introspection as to where I could possibly be wrong. Nothing to do with scoring points, either way, unless you consider it a political game.

See the way the arguments & accusations are made, full of malice, viciousness even. Chinese saying, food can anyhow eat, words cannot anyhow say

So I guess going after an ignorant, simplistic, misguided, misinformed & rather mischievous blogger is the way to go.....

A golden opportunity to score some brownie points by simply rebutting is lost.

 

[Kit]

I wonder how many actually knew who Roy is, let alone read his articles before this freak show. If this is all about salvaging a reputation, then the heavy hand, which is drawing all the bad press is counter productive. He could have just instructed a point by point rebuttal by his team of elites and forget about it.

 

[Kit]

and if Singaporeans are indeed "ignorant and stupid" enough to fund Roy's legal costs and damages to be paid, its still eggs on his face. That would be a really nice popularity poll. Reputation? Probably find it in the nearest water channel.

 

[s1221ljc]

I don't see this as a popularity contest, but others may. Anyway, he & his old man was never into this popularity thing in governance if one look into their background & history. Its true many Singaporeans are suffering & struggling to earn a living so there are lots of highly vocal expressions of dissatisfaction & criticisms over policies etc... We know there is a third of the people on the opposition side.

 

[NineEleven]

Your statement is kind of ironic actually (no offense intended). Cash as paper money is essentially a 'promise to pay' the bearer of the note the value indicated on the note.

Surely we have heard of bad cheques? In this case, it's more of post dated cheques.

My friend just turned 55 & discovered that he cannot touch his special account. There's also a min sum ($43500) needed in Medisave failing which monies from OA (ordinary account) or SA must be transferred to top up. So, for those who's OA has been tied up with their housing then there's little left in CPF for retirement unless they unlock the money by selling their property but then you'd need to repay all interests owed plus min sum required before withdrawing the money to use and then you'd need to rent a place to live. The rental for a 3room HDB flat in our open market is easily S$2K @ current times so it's more prudent for one to rent out a room or two from their own property to supplement their livelihood as it's cash (provided you have a tenant who pays on time).

Does anyone know if our beneficiaries can encash our CPF balance when we close account upon death? I heard it's transferred to nominee's CPF account, the answer cannot be found on CPF site. The only thing I found is that we will get a 100% refund on CPF when one surrenders citizenship.

 

[NineEleven]

I was just trying to be nice. To discuss the CPF part & not to repeat, much less try to justify, the defamatory remarks, esp here in CS (thread may be closed) Remember I said :



Lets not be naïve, heroic or altruistic. If YOU are a rich, powerful & prominent person of high social & public standing, often in the news & limelight, proud of & jealousy guard your integrity, honour & reputation, would you not take the same stance against me if I make unfounded, scurrilous & defamatory accusations against you? Or you will just live & let live or believe you can change, educate & reform me even if I do show the slightest intention of listening & continue to spread the lies about you? What if I have hidden agendas to take you down & have scores to settle? If I made the false accusations, its my job to set it right, if I was mistaken, its my responsibility to apologise. Why is the onus on you to clarify? I should perhaps check with others for independent opinion & advice & do some serious rethink, introspection as to where I could possibly be wrong. Nothing to do with scoring points, either way, unless you consider it a political game.

See the way the arguments & accusations are made, full of malice, viciousness even. Chinese saying, food can anyhow eat, words cannot anyhow say

Eloquent jargon my dear forumner.

Roy would have been a nobody until the spotlight was turned on him & making him a martyr is the last thing a politician would want.

得饶人处且饶人； To err is human;let people off easily whenever possible

 

[-120-]

I believe many agrees w him in principle, less the accusation part, but none has the "courage" like his to voice out publicly. Thus the support he receives.

 

[Kit]

Perhaps I should re=phrase popularity poll to approval ratings.

Times have changed. Gone are the days where "everything they do is correct". Million dollar pay cheques don't come easy anymore.

 

[keithwee]

I see it as :

Ruling party has always deemed itself as taking up the parents role to her citizens (which isn't a bad thing). As parents u will have the whip and the candy.

PM , in his stature obviously can be the whip, very effectively , while the ministers can give out the candies , pushing for a balance. The *** is aware of how powerful online remarks can be and is trying it's best to rein in the bad and use it effectively too.

Roy like many bloggers tended to push the envelope and he overdid it, or u can say it's just the wrong timing being not far away from the elections and it being such a contentious issue.

The ending should be as what many will guess but I believe there's no victim here. Each will earn their own benefit, one as a martyr (though he could have tried better to burn in a less painful way) and another one showing that the party while trying to change to be more loving is still very much holding a hammer.

 

[Kit]

To err is human;let people off easily whenever possible

I hope his day will come too.

 

[kandinsky]

Does anyone know if our beneficiaries can encash our CPF balance when we close account upon death? I heard it's transferred to nominee's CPF account, the answer cannot be found on CPF site.

If you look at the Application to Withdraw Deceased Member’s CPF form, it's quite clear that one's CPF balance will be paid out via cash (TT/giro/cheque) to one's nominees.

Under Mode of Payment from the above-mentioned form:

MODE OF PAYMENT

1. Payment will be credited into your bank account as stated in this application via:

i. Interbank GIRO for a Singapore bank account.

ii. Telegraphic Transfer for an overseas bank account.

You will need to provide us the SWIFT code and bank address, and ensure that the bank accepts
payment in Singapore dollars. Please note that you will have to bear all bank charges.

Please get your bank to certify your bank account information on Part 4 of the form or mail us your original bank
statement for verification. Online bank statements are not acceptable. Bank certification is not required for a
Singapore POSB, OCBC or UOB bank account maintained under your Singapore NRIC.

2. If your bank account information is not provided or is incomplete, we will issue you a cheque in Singapore Dollars.
(Note: For overseas bank clearance of the cheque, you will need to bear all bank charges.)

via: Application to Withdraw Deceased Member’s CPF

 

[sammy888]

Most of us have actually not heard of Roy until the suit & that's when people start to Google.

So, how many of you here have read his postings?

On the contrary, some of us in the business world feels that the PM has own goaled this time. Yes, he will win but he has also lost.

Most of us including yours truly don't question when life's peaceful but as one ages & retire, you'll need money so you look into CPF, aka our State Pension Fund then you'll be in for an awful surprise.

Also, our late President Ong Teck Cheong wanted to look into state accounts using his capacity but hit a wall.
http://www-cgi.cnn.com/ASIANOW/asiaweek/magazine/2000/0310/nat.singapore.ongiv.html

It's good you have a long memory about President Ong Teng Cheong. Many my age may remember President Ong for his courage to bring that up before being slam on the brake by Doctor Hu with a long list of reasons why they can not reveal the details of the CPF. The moment I read about the blogger case, It harken me back to that time. I think those of us who remember that period knew if a President who supposedly had the VETO right could not move the mountain for a clearer picture of the CPF, who is Roy. That was then not long later he resigned as President, around the time his wife died and not long later he himself.

I recall joing the many hundred or thousands who went to his funeral wake. In recent days of the roy blogger thingy, I recall and admire President Ong for what he tried to do. Funny how the one person who has the power to intervene in cases a conflicting decision between govt and the people comes about, trying to use his power got get more clarity on the CPF matters, he was turned down. There is no proof but logic does seem to point to smoke of some sort and where there is smoke....Maybe there should be some clarification to clear the air (smoke). Would that be so wrong? I foresee this case will not end well for Roy in anything remotely considered a victory but this case would had or will have set a milestone of some sort as the court episode draws out. Roy's approach was possibly a somewhat honest attempt but badly put across badly and had the table's turned. But then again it could be what he felt he needed to get the attention to bring his case to the center stage. If he kept to the rules of proper engagement, this might all have swept under the carpet and no one would have raised any eyebrow about it like any kopitiam gossip. Whose to say.

As for the money Roy has gotten in donations, if the other side decide to do a 180 turn. Well he can do what they have often do as well. Give it to a charity of his choosing.