my first thoughts on the k20d

[longko]

I am thinking of getting the k200d. But if the k10d is around the same price, is it better to get the k10d instead? Is is really a better camera in all aspects?

K10D USED is abt same as K200D new. K10D is said to withstand 100k shutter count, which most of us tends to hit less than 20k in 1+yr. K10D is a better camera, except the JPEG can be a bit soft, but it doesn't stop one from getting great shots^^

So it really depends on what you want. A new lighter camera, or a used camera with better build.

Above are just my opinions.

 

[creampuff]

kids....

again - kids....

that's true. The k20d is, i think, fast enough for street in general. The k100d wasn't. Might also because I now have a 16-50....

The Canon 40D is cheaper than the Pentax K20D. In Singapore, the 17-55 IS + 40D was very similarly priced to the K20D + 16-50 2.8.

With the K20D, shooting kids is dead easy... so I don't know why people say the camera is not fast enough when the AF has improved. It is easy to repeat this line over and over when the reality if one cannot anticipate the moment or capture the peak of action, better go and work on technique more rather than blame the camera.

OK here are some actual snaps of kids taken earlier today.

This picture has been cropped a little to protect the decency of a kid in the buff.

40D with IS kit lens may be a little cheaper than the K20D combo that you mentioned, but one thing is for sure, the K20D is the better camera in so many ways.

 

[longko]

With the K20D, shooting kids is dead easy... so I don't know why people say the camera is not fast enough when the AF has improved. It is easy to repeat this line over and over when the reality if one cannot anticipate the moment or capture the peak of action, better go and work on technique more rather than blame the camera.

Think AF speed dun improved much on DA*/SDM lenses, but on normal lenses it's faster. Ya I have not much problem with K10D taking shots of people jogging with GSD in indoor dog show.

 

[creampuff]

On the K200D vs the K10D debate, if I were to choose from scratch, I just might go with the K200D. Yeah the K10D got more pro features, 2 e-dials, better viewfinder, pentaprism, etc.
However the K200D was developed after the K10D so I'm of the opinion the folks at Pentax may have tweaked the sensor performance somewhat. Also the K10D is not without some niggling issues, chief of which is the BF issues with some lenses. At the end of the day, it really depends on who is gonna buy the camera. If you can't bear the thought of getting a used K10D, then go with a new K200D.

 

[creampuff]

OK some minor practical observations of the K20D.

The Live View is better than I imagined but not a feature I'd use a lot. Here's a feeble attempt at an insect macro using LV without a macro lens. Wanted to use the DOF preview/optical preview when LV came on. Oh well, that's for not reading the manual enough. :bsmilie:

Another thing I noticed is the Shake Reduction switch has been tweaked on the K20D. This after I inadvertantly nudged it off for a couple of frames. Something I need to look out for.

 

[longko]

lol found something I thought was an improvement but end up a dummy feature. On K10D in M mode you can't set the EV. On K20D M mode you can set the EV, but it does nothing. Based on M mode K10D is correct not to have EV, but it'll be useful to have if u intend to P-TTL bounce.

Oh ya P-TTL did improved on K20D which I'm happy about. For those using SB-3000, you can set the ISO800 on K20D and bounce in any ceiling below 14 feet. You should be able to get a ok exposure. Will confirm this next time I do an event:sweat:

 

[creampuff]

lol found something I thought was an improvement but end up a dummy feature. On K10D in M mode you can't set the EV. On K20D M mode you can set the EV, but it does nothing. Based on M mode K10D is correct not to have EV, but it'll be useful to have if u intend to P-TTL bounce.

Yes noticed it yesterday. The EV compensation does show up in the exif though.

 

[night86mare]

kids.

again - kids.

that's true

kids are like crazy demons sometimes.. :bsmilie:

but i don't think it should be a problem under good lighting? of course, in dark situations.. i don't think anyone wnats to have to buy a d3 to get photos of their kids running around in the house at night.

 

[dnaxe]

kids in daylight is fine. It's kids indoors. (it's not like the af isn't fast outdoors. it's actually almost fast enough that i think it might be able to track, say, players in a football game. Assuming that the relevant lens, say a 300/4 focusses as quickly as my 16-50. Haven't actually tried this though.)

should have been more specific.

but anyhow. yeah.

k20D is a better camera in some ways than 40D, and vice versa.

 

[longko]

kids in daylight is fine. It's kids indoors. (it's not like the af isn't fast outdoors. it's actually almost fast enough that i think it might be able to track, say, players in a football game. Assuming that the relevant lens, say a 300/4 focusses as quickly as my 16-50. Haven't actually tried this though.)

should have been more specific.

but anyhow. yeah.

k20D is a better camera in some ways than 40D, and vice versa.

Kids indoor most of the time is not the AF speed but rather the AF in low light. Techniques are required to get a shot of kids running towards you, which many loves to take but always failed. I'd yet master this, but I can assured you it can be done with Pentax AF even on K10D body^^

K20D or 40D both have their pros and cons. Since most here had settled with Pentax, it's better to try make use of what we have.

 

[sbc]

lol found something I thought was an improvement but end up a dummy feature. On K10D in M mode you can't set the EV. On K20D M mode you can set the EV, but it does nothing. Based on M mode K10D is correct not to have EV, but it'll be useful to have if u intend to P-TTL bounce.

Actually it is a very useful feature. Let's say 1 of your lenses exposes 1/2 stop too dark. You then set EV comp to +1/2. So when you are adjusting Av and Tv you don't have to keep remembering to set 1/2 stop brighter, just centre the indicator.
Also when you use the green button, it will automatically set 1/2 stop over, instead of pressing the green button and then turning one of the dials to set +1/2.

So yes, Pentax did the right thing.

 

[longko]

Actually it is a very useful feature. Let's say 1 of your lenses exposes 1/2 stop too dark. You then set EV comp to +1/2. So when you are adjusting Av and Tv you don't have to keep remembering to set 1/2 stop brighter, just centre the indicator.
Also when you use the green button, it will automatically set 1/2 stop over, instead of pressing the green button and then turning one of the dials to set +1/2.

So yes, Pentax did the right thing.

lol think u misread. EV dun work in M mode, which I'll loved it to. EV had always been part of Av, Tv and most other except M mode.

 

[dnaxe]

Kids indoor most of the time is not the AF speed but rather the AF in low light. Techniques are required to get a shot of kids running towards you, which many loves to take but always failed. I'd yet master this, but I can assured you it can be done with Pentax AF even on K10D body^^

Hmm. Would be very interested to hear more

eh. AF in low light = AF speed, no?

 

[longko]

Hmm. Would be very interested to hear more

eh. AF in low light = AF speed, no?

lol dunno how to put into words yet, still at mastering stage. Since I dun have anyone to learn from nor do I do much reading, so I can only try till I get a way to do it:bsmilie: Maybe someone can do a detail sharing on this.

To me, AF speed is the time required for a subject to be focus. However, lighting affects how well it can focus. So if AF speed is fast, doesn't mean it can focus well. Indoors normally ppl will use flash, the in-build flash will help focusing by giving out pre-flashes. If you are using ext flash, there's the spotbeam (SB) that'll help focusing also.

 

[sbc]

lol think u misread. EV dun work in M mode, which I'll loved it to. EV had always been part of Av, Tv and most other except M mode.

Ok, but it works on my K20D.

 

[night86mare]

today when shooting i noticed a piece of dust. horror!

came home, used the blower.. and it was gone. now, on the k100d by this time i would have been learning how to do wet cleaning already.

 

[sbc]

Ok, just got back from a studio shoot with my K20D. There are a couple of things I noticed.

1. AF - I don't find any improvement over my K10D in a studio enviroment. THe speed for achieving focus lock depends a lot on the lens. With a 18-55II, it was very fast, I had no problem shooting fast as it locks EVERY time. But with the DFA100, :sweat:, I can point the focus sensor at the eye and yet it can't lock! Instead the focus indicator will blink, telling me it can't find focus. Both cameras gave the same problem.

2. DR - Sometimes we CAN have too much of a good thing. With the K10D and its 'clipped' DR, I can burnt out the white background and black out the black background at will. But with the K20D, the DR is so wide it picked out every shade and texture of the background. :bsmilie: I had a hard time tuning the studio lights to achieve the effect I want, which is pure white and pure black background.

That's it. I will 'report' more on the sport shooting aspect of the K20D when I get my DA*300.

 

[longko]

Ok, but it works on my K20D.

U sure u did the test on M mode? Think creampuff and I both find the EV does nothing on M mode.

 

[night86mare]

2. DR - Sometimes we CAN have too much of a good thing. With the K10D and its 'clipped' DR, I can burnt out the white background and black out the black background at will. But with the K20D, the DR is so wide it picked out every shade and texture of the background. :bsmilie: I had a hard time tuning the studio lights to achieve the effect I want, which is pure white and pure black background.

to reduce dynamic range, just up the contrast in pp

or just use levels, clip the highlights and shadows

 

[longko]

Ok, just got back from a studio shoot with my K20D. There are a couple of things I noticed.

1. AF - I don't find any improvement over my K10D in a studio enviroment. THe speed for achieving focus lock depends a lot on the lens. With a 18-55II, it was very fast, I had no problem shooting fast as it locks EVERY time. But with the DFA100, :sweat:, I can point the focus sensor at the eye and yet it can't lock! Instead the focus indicator will blink, telling me it can't find focus. Both cameras gave the same problem.

2. DR - Sometimes we CAN have too much of a good thing. With the K10D and its 'clipped' DR, I can burnt out the white background and black out the black background at will. But with the K20D, the DR is so wide it picked out every shade and texture of the background. :bsmilie: I had a hard time tuning the studio lights to achieve the effect I want, which is pure white and pure black background.

That's it. I will 'report' more on the sport shooting aspect of the K20D when I get my DA*300.

:bsmilie: either ur DFA 100mm has problem, or DFA 100mm dun work well with K20D.^^; K20D is slightly faster for me in studio with both FA 35-70mm and Tamron 17-50mm.