LTA seeking feedback on COE


cks2k2

New Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#41
I think using GPS in place of ERP is in the pipeline. With this, can remove COE totally. What will happen is when you drive, you will pay. The more you you drive, the more you pay and driving on congested roads will need to pay a whole lot more.

This will make owning a car relatively cheap but driving one will be very very expensive. This way can encourage people to use the public transport,(or walk or cycle) car pool and use the car only when really needed or only during off peak hours and using less congested roads.
the last time the GPS system was mooted, wasn't there concerns over privacy?
 

ManWearPants

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2008
4,200
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#42
I think using GPS in place of ERP is in the pipeline. With this, can remove COE totally. What will happen is when you drive, you will pay. The more you you drive, the more you pay and driving on congested roads will need to pay a whole lot more.
I still think reducing subsidies on petrol is a more straight-forward and effective method. This will affect all vehicles on the road. The bigger capacity cars will naturally consume more. Those that consume more will leave a bigger carbon footprint. Most importantly, it also affect cars that travels across the causeway. The GPS tracking method requires yet another device to be installed on the dashboard, may have difficulties in tunnels, places with trees and cloudy days. And as CK mentioned above has concerns over privacy.

the last time the GPS system was mooted, wasn't there concerns over privacy?
Wonder if they can zoom in if the car is seen to be jerking about in Sembawang car park :)
 

cks2k2

New Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#43
I still think reducing subsidies on petrol is a more straight-forward and effective method. This will affect all vehicles on the road. The bigger capacity cars will naturally consume more. Those that consume more will leave a bigger carbon footprint. Most importantly, it also affect cars that travels across the causeway. The GPS tracking method requires yet another device to be installed on the dashboard, may have difficulties in tunnels, places with trees and cloudy days. And as CK mentioned above has concerns over privacy.



Wonder if they can zoom in if the car is seen to be jerking about in Sembawang car park :)
petrol is subsidized in singapore? sure or not
 

ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
3,353
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#44
If the idea is to charge same rate to any driver who drives, regardless of where he drives; then it defeats the purpose of ERP.
They want to de-congest the overused roads at peak periods so that traffic is evenly distributed.
 

coolthought

Senior Member
Jun 23, 2008
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#45
petrol is subsidized in singapore? sure or not
Only in MY, petrol is subsidised. Indo only motorcycle.
In China, Petrol is taxed. In a way, instead of charging road tax, you pay more tax for using your car more often through petrol.
 

coolthought

Senior Member
Jun 23, 2008
2,310
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#46
the last time the GPS system was mooted, wasn't there concerns over privacy?
Look at it on the bright side.
If your car gets stolen, LTA will help to locate your car.
It can even monitor your car speed. You can expect less speeding and hogging on the expressway, more cars will keep up and to the speed limit. Safer and smoother traffic.
 

kei1309

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2010
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#47
Look at it on the bright side.
If your car gets stolen, LTA will help to locate your car.
It can even monitor your car speed. You can expect less speeding and hogging on the expressway, more cars will keep up and to the speed limit. Safer and smoother traffic.
This leads to a more totalitarian society.

Not sure if Singaporeans can stand such scrutiny on their lives
 

dniwkh

New Member
Mar 19, 2012
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#48
so how did you come to arrive at the conclusion that it's a mismanagement that the numbers jumped?
Frankly, I think people can argue for very long what is the ideal COE price... but I think most people can agree on is that COE prices should be stable.

There is no reason why someone who bought a car like 1 year later should pay like 5x the COE prices.

Looking at the vehicles increases year by year, there is an increment of 11k vehicles in 2011... in 2007 there is like 52k.... Since the government control the sole supply of CEO and thus the number of vehicles on the road, isn't it obvious that the increment in year 2007 is not sustainable (even assuming that vehicle growth rate at that time was 3%).... I think the government has admitted to their mistake already but I am surprised it took them a few years to figure out. Someone was sleeping on his job lor
 

UncleFai

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2010
4,459
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#50
"Taxes and duties make up about 30 percent of pump prices. The petrol excise duty in Singapore is set at a rate of $0.41 per litre for 92- and 95-octane petrol, and $0.44 per litre for petrol rated 97 octane and above. As with all other products, there is the additional seven per cent GST charge."

http://www.exxonmobil.com/AP-English/energy_fuelpricing.aspx
 

hanzohattori

Senior Member
Apr 16, 2010
999
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#51
Look at it on the bright side.
If your car gets stolen, LTA will help to locate your car.
It can even monitor your car speed. You can expect less speeding and hogging on the expressway, more cars will keep up and to the speed limit. Safer and smoother traffic.
Or if your car is in a certain carpark..... :bsmilie:
 

#52
The GPS tracking method requires yet another device to be installed on the dashboard, may have difficulties in tunnels, places with trees and cloudy days. And as CK mentioned above has concerns over privacy.
Thus the need of both ground base Very High Frequency (VHF) and Ultra High Frequency (UHF) transceiver (TRX) stations are necessary to augment the Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) in such scenarios and situations, being linked to a central processing network with extremely precise triangulation algorithms for calculating with a minimal Probability of Error (PoE), this can be integrated together with the Base Transceiver Station (BTS) for cellular or mobile network.

Similar Ground Based Augmentation System (GBAS) such as the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Local Area Augmentation System (LAAS) could enable a commercial airliner to automatically land without any pilot input whatsoever in Instrument Landing System (ILS) Category III (CAT III) zero visibility conditions in just several years later.

Look at it on the bright side.
If your car gets stolen, LTA will help to locate your car.
It can even monitor your car speed. You can expect less speeding and hogging on the expressway, more cars will keep up and to the speed limit. Safer and smoother traffic.
Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) has been around for a very long time, with the number of LTA traffic cameras alone not even taking into account other Closed-Circuit Television (CCTV) cameras around. Not really that difficulty to track a vehicle if the authorities really wanted to. Already in orange plated vehicles, if it leaves the designated route at any time. MHA (SCDF, SPF etc. etc.) and LTA is notified immediately and they may choose so to immobilise the vehicle at their discretion.

Without a fix ERP gantry, it offers much flexibility to designating certain route as "congested" or otherwise as and when the situation demands it. You can even have the GPS In-Vehicle Unit (IU) with an LCD display plot the route for you thus avoiding the congestion and saving the motorist some $$$.
 

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#53
so how did you come to arrive at the conclusion that it's a mismanagement that the numbers jumped?
It was in the news many years ago.

Mr. Raymond Lim Siang Keat, former Minister of Transport (MoT), basically admitted he screwed up for an entire decade.

Christopher Tan said:
In announcing the change in the formula, Transport Minister Raymond Lim indicated that it would address a perennial mismatch of supply and demand.

This has led to an undersupply in the first half of the last decade and a huge oversupply in the second half.

The result has been heavy road congestion in recent years, an issue raised by MPs yesterday.

Mr Lim acknowledged the shortcomings of the current formula, introduced in 1999. While it achieved a 3 per cent annualised vehicle population growth rate in the long run, 'the short-term fluctuations in the growth rate are not desirable'.

From 2005 to 2008, Singapore's vehicle population growth rate ranged from 3.8 to 6.5 per cent. Last year, when the allowable growth rate was halved to 1.5 per cent, the actual growth was 3.4 per cent.
 

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ahboy168

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2009
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#54
We talk so much also no use. Intention is not to really lower COE, but to lower tax loss for Cat A and increase more $$$$ to tax the "rich".

End of the day, it could be just like this:
1. Cat A - 1600cc becomes OMV <=25k OR TAXI
2. Cat B - 2000cc becomes OMV > 25K
3. Cat C, D - no change.

4. Second car ownership
- husband and wife included
- Additional Tax of 100% OMV after first car
 

ahboy168

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2009
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#55
And WHY should we "feedback" to them HOW to suck our blood?

Like asking the poor frog or crab for feedback, what is the best way to kill or cook them?
 

dniwkh

New Member
Mar 19, 2012
840
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#56
Without a fix ERP gantry, it offers much flexibility to designating certain route as "congested" or otherwise as and when the situation demands it. You can even have the GPS In-Vehicle Unit (IU) with an LCD display plot the route for you thus avoiding the congestion and saving the motorist some $$$.
yup frankly I am all for the GPS tracking thing. The data available for LTA offers soo many possibilities.

I remember some city in Asia was doing something like that. The traffic pattern data can be analysied and road conditions improved. Traffic light timings can be adjusted on the fly to changing traffic conditions.
 

cks2k2

New Member
Feb 12, 2009
939
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#57
And WHY should we "feedback" to them HOW to suck our blood?

Like asking the poor frog or crab for feedback, what is the best way to kill or cook them?
you want to be steamed, fried or braised?
 

cks2k2

New Member
Feb 12, 2009
939
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#58
yup frankly I am all for the GPS tracking thing. The data available for LTA offers soo many possibilities.

I remember some city in Asia was doing something like that. The traffic pattern data can be analysied and road conditions improved. Traffic light timings can be adjusted on the fly to changing traffic conditions.
dont think that was using GPS though.
 

Octarine

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 3, 2008
12,604
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Pasir Ris
#59
yup frankly I am all for the GPS tracking thing. The data available for LTA offers soo many possibilities.
With the new Data Protection Act these possibilities should be already limited. But then again, reading the fine print on some government forms about usage of personal data ..:ipuke:
I remember some city in Asia was doing something like that. The traffic pattern data can be analysied and road conditions improved. Traffic light timings can be adjusted on the fly to changing traffic conditions.
Traffic pattern analysis was done already for taxis in SG. That's where they found out that most taxis stop or slow down in the rain. Supposedly to avoid accidents and the compulsory money the cab driver has to pay to the taxi company upfront, regardless whether the accident was his fault or not ..
For some timings it doesn't need GPS magic .. Upper New Changi Rd towards city is a disaster in traffic light timing, there nothing much left to make it worse.

But in the end: such things will only implemented if there is an immediate and clear economical benefit the organization setting up such a system :bsmilie:
 

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