It already started off on a fairly poor note with full-time photographers almost always ready to shoot their own professions down by saying it's tough, pay is little, etc.
I haven't followed this forum for some time, as I (personally) see that there's quite a fair bit of negativity towards full time photographers whenever they say something. So I'm not gonna agree or disagree with you that full-timers are 'almost always ready to shoot their own profession'. But based on the few threads I've seen on such discussions happening, the best I've seen is how professionals are trying to bring across the point that their end product price is not reflective of their profit. Charge 8k, doesn't mean make 8k. Simple as that. But discussions usually degenerate from there into petty squabbles of worth, instead of constructive aspects of 'charging 8k'. It takes 2 parties to keep a discussion constructive. One party to share, the other party to appreciate and ask constructive questions. Not slamming, accusing, questioning whatever that's shared.
That aside, what is worse is, we hear some pros make remarks like, Are you sure you're up to it? Show me your pics. And recently, when someone asks, How much should you charge for a certain assignment, the response is often cold, like, Whatever you please. Or if you need to ask that kind of question, it means you're not good enough. What's up man?
Again, I can't be sure if that's happening as well. I can't speak for all full-time photographers on CS, and I can only speak for myself. If someone is adopting the tone as you described above, then I agree that's hardly useful as well. Did the advice come from a full-timer ('Whatever you please'; 'If you need to ask, you're not good enough')? The problem is anyone can walk in and post something without being really responsible for it.
If you look at
this thread, there's some guide on deciding how much to charge. First of all, the cost of doing business. The charges must at least cover the cost of each shoot. I'm also sure I've read someone sharing how to arrive at the costs. Next, also include the minimum amount of earnings you'll expect. The final amount will be the charges. Generally speaking. And if this amount is higher than what the market is willing to pay, then this line (photography) will not be profitable.
I think this post could have been a lot more useful and healthier if there are seniors who will guide the juniors on the basics, perhaps not so much the technical aspects (though this will be excellent), but like what to look out for, how to start, the pitfalls, etc. Now, of course, this will be impossible. Why, because it's a fierce competition out there. And why should a pro "wastes" his time teaching or sharing for free?
How did you think I grow my business and survive? I literally gave up a career and started from scratch, with no help at all and very little capital that was exhausted in 6 months. It was through reading and sifting through what the pros are willing to share here. But the sifting through made it all the harder. Granted, I learned a whole lot more on forums based in other parts of the world where the community is a lot less hostile and a lot more positive, but there were many willing mentors in CS whose advice, though doesn't sound pleasant to the ears, had been the most useful.
So if there is no healthy sharing done, I think that's what happens. Members from, all over, pros and non-pros, will just write how they feel or what they like, and the discussion can often snowball into misunderstandings and bad mouthing. In fact, if you think about it, there's nothing much worthy to discuss at all. Cos everything about wedding photography is confidential, secret, hush hush. It all depends on oneself. No one can help anyone.
I'll be a hypocrite if I say that there're no secrets to my business. But it is also unfair of you to direct it to wedding photography alone. These 'tricks of trade' applies to all businesses. What can be shared would be the fundamentals that can help someone start up, and possibly survive. What cannot be shared would be the 'tricks' that helped us distinguish one from another.
The fact that there's nothing 'worth' discussing at all, at this point, is pretty much the culture of this forum. It's simply not conducive for sharing. At least to me. At this point in time.
And like the good $20 chicken rice analogy given, no one should be obliged to justify how the recession will affect the photography business. Which photographer here will honestly reveal if he or she charges less or more given the recession? That's like openly admitting my business is no good or if it's doing very well.
True, and not true.
How 'will' recession hit the wedding photography biz exactly? Wedding photography is not a necessity. That much is established. The market size is also going to be smaller as a result. Wedding photography is not recession proof. That's about as much as the topic can go. Unless it is renamed, or some constructive questions are asked. Like how to deal with this recession for wedding photography. But it ends up degenerating into a questioning session on the worth of photography.
Hence, the Kopitiam-like banter this section has become.
And you're not helping. Your posts reflect a keen interest in the wedding photography business. The thinking and depth of your post shows insight. But drumming thoughts like "people will forget about where they put their albums" is first of all out of context, secondly detrimental to the image of the photography industry. Half of my clients surf CS. All of them don't like what they find reading here. They feel offended that by appreciating photography enough to make sacrifices, they're seen as being silly or impractical.
Wedding photography is NOT practical. The
art of wedding photography is even less practical. Wedding is not practical at all. Buying 300-500 people dinner is not practical. Buying a $200/$3000 dress is not practical. Wedding is a dream. A day of fantasy. Wedding photography is about immortalizing this day of fantasy. The art of wedding photography is about translating this day of fantasy. Being a family man, if I have my say, a wedding is a 'waste' of money. But being a wedding day photographer, wedding photography to me is priceless. I already regret (personally) choosing the wrong photographer for my own wedding. Now I'm planning for a renewal of vows, and hoping to get quality photography this time. That's in spite of what a practical person I am.
This forum is not about practicality. It is not even about wedding photography. It is about Photobiz.
Imagine the numerous couples who end up subscribing to your philosophy of how wedding photography, or any form of photography should be valued in a more pragmatic way (which is out of context in this forum) - is the outcome really the one that you want? I thought being a member of CS would at least mean there's an interest in photography - if not passion. If we're not advocates of the value of photography to non-photographers, at least we're the last people to be expected to demean and devalue photography, isn't it?
In a Photobiz, or any biz forum:
1)Instead of slamming photographers who offer installment plans the constructive way is to actually ask about the implementation, and how they can actually convince clients to pay for more than what they can afford at that moment. Remember, this is not a consumer education forum.
2)Instead of trying to devalue photography, a more constructive way or participating would be to ask photographers how they can survive or even close deals with their pricing. Already, many of the nay-sayers have pointed out that the photography of some of us who charge above the market rate don't really stand out. Clients are not stupid. Singaporeans, least of all. They/We are very prudent, intelligent spenders. It would be a folly to assume that it's easy to market ourselves in this super duper competitive industry.