Feedback on new Personal Classified sections

[Darren]

The new sections for a certain brand in a specific section is good, but it looks so messy with Camera bodies, lenses, flashes, accessories etc all pack together, seriously very messy, I think it is better if there is a sub-section under the main section, for example,

Main Section (Canon) --> Sub-section (lenses) or (Body) etc etc

I agree with Vincent Vincent, I much prefer the previous buy/sell section, much more flexible and user friendly.

I think having a different sub section for lens and body under the main section is a great idea and will make the new Personal Classified more user friendly.

Just my opinion

We did think about doing it that way and decided to make it simpler for a start and just separating by brand. Again, depending on the volume of posts in a particular section, we will re-visit the need to get one level deeper in the future.

In the meantime, I am preparing a Quick Guide to help members make the most out of the existing section layouts. There are ways to limit by date, sort and display the threads so that you can quickly browse what is important to you.

 

[Darren]

i love it this way. i think once things get settled down and all the threads are in right sections. it will be great

Thank you for your vote of confidence! We believe that the new section layout will be more useful to members in the long term.

 

[squall]

Thanks for taking the trouble to explain, i do think that you guys are doing a great job overall.

I do want to clarify a point about "eqmpt discussions" in buy/sell threads. Sometimes a particular item is put up in which the compatibility with various generations of body/lens combo is not well known. Perhaps it is "correct" to start a new thread in the appropriate brand forum to try and ask before going back to consider to buy. However, more often than not, a simple question on the thread can be quickly answered for all who are interested to buy to know.

If constant upping of the thread is the key issue, is it (from a technical perspective) possible to present the threads based on the START date/time rather than the latest post? Then, one can still post on it but there will be no more impetus to upzz as the position of the post will not move.

Thanks again.

 

[Darren]

some suggestions... sorry, not really reporting errors or omissions... just loading on the number suggestions to the admin... sorry, but suggestions are based on how i think ppl may search for items...

i) based on some of the admin reallocation of the B&S threads, 3rd party lenses are going into the "other brand lenses" section. it would be more useful for 3rd party lenses and flashes to be in the sub-section according to mount, e.g. sigma F-mount should be posted in the nikon forum, not the other brands. related would be Keltzar's point on the "nikon-fujifilm f-mount" suggestion... which leads me to my next suggestion...

Let me revisit the Brand vs Lensmount situation and we will make adjustments.

ii) the personals handle the DSLR market pretty well, and rightfully so, as those likely have the largest share of post in the B&S. but i would suggest having the "by brand" section to only handle DSLR and SLR bodies, lenses and flashes. further, but instead of "other camera brands / formats" and "other brand lenses / flashes", i would suggest having "other digital cameras / compacts" and "other film cameras".

Again, we will need to look at the number of posts/threads before breaking down further.

iii) lastly... no more "upz!!" wars!! but would there be a limit imposed on the number of times can repost or posting an update (e.g. one of items have been sold) of a classified?... pls don't go into charging for posting...

my $0.02...

The "upz!!" wars was one of the primary motivation to have a "closed thread" system of posting. The threads are now evenly (or rather more evenly) distributed over multiple sections thus threads will not get buried so quickly.

On the issue of charging members for posting personal classifieds, we reassure members that it will never happen. We are here to provide a meeting place, a community and a conduit for information, and not to make money off our members -(caveat is for those who are providing services/sales to members through ClubSNAP and thus "profiting".) We will charge a fair and equitable amount for these "commercial" members, so that its a win-win-win situation : A Win for the seller/service provider since he/she has access to a ready market, a Win for the member(s) who gets a good deal, and a Win for us since the proceeds helps us to maintain this website and forums.

 

[binbeto]

On the issue of charging members for posting personal classifieds, we reassure members that it will never happen. We are here to provide a meeting place, a community and a conduit for information, and not to make money off our members -(caveat is for those who are providing services/sales to members through ClubSNAP and thus "profiting".) We will charge a fair and equitable amount for these "commercial" members, so that its a win-win-win situation : A Win for the seller/service provider since he/she has access to a ready market, a Win for the member(s) who gets a good deal, and a Win for us since the proceeds helps us to maintain this website and forums.

Hope this will never happen. If I remembered correctly, one of the reason why CS is created was when HWZ started to introduce the durex membership thingy.

I like the new format better.

However, I think there might be a need for poster to want to amend their posting to include details that was left out earlier.
For example, the lens come with filter or I think i misplace the manual.

 

[flowerpot]

1) if my sale is not successful for a few weeks and my post is buried way below, is there a way to refresh them or have to create a new thread ?

2) if i wanna lower my BNP is there a way to do it ?

3) For the 3rd party lens it wold be good if there is an additional "mount" information added so that its easier to search...

 

[Darren]

1) if my sale is not successful for a few weeks and my post is buried way below, is there a way to refresh them or have to create a new thread ?

We will update the guidelines on the number of threads allowed in the sections. Will be published within a couple of days. As an initial thought, each member should not have more than 2-3 active threads per section per week.

2) if i wanna lower my BNP is there a way to do it ?

As clarified earlier in this thread, we will trial this "closed thread" method for a while and then revisit the need to allow threadstarter to update.

3) For the 3rd party lens it wold be good if there is an additional "mount" information added so that its easier to search...

Again, we are looking into this and trying to figure out a more effective way of having that information posted.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[projekts]

Firstly, let me preface my replies (and all that follow) by saying that it is impossible to cater to every member's liking thus we have had to make decisions that, in our opinion, would suit most members most of the time. Our opinion may be spot-on, off slightly or off totally, and that is why we have this feedback section to hear members out.

Now onwards to try and clarify the statements below (which I have grouped roughly according to the type of feedback.)









The ability for the threadstarter to post replies/updates was something that we internally debated about, and we wanted to run a trial to see if having this system would work better than the previous one where we had threadstarters bumping their posts several times a day (if you analyse the previous section, bumps were by far outweighing the use of replies to update the thread - on an average).

This bumping was in part necessary due to the volume of posts in the Buy & Sell which essentially meant that threads could easily be relegated to the back pages even within a 24 hr time period.

Now, with brand-separated sections, the volume of posts per section will be lessened thus it may not be necessary to bump the posts so often (we hope).

Having said that, we do recognise the need to allow the threadowner to update his/her thread and we will revisit this need in the near future. Please allow us to test the new sections as it is first to gauge effectiveness, and then we can adjust as necessary.

As buyers and sellers, members can also gauge for themselves the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of this new system and then give feedback when we revisit this need (for threadstarter to be able to make updates).

sorry, i am not an expert in the forum s/w, but if there's a way to post a reply to the thread without the ability to bring it back to the front, wouldn't it solve some of the problems?

apologize again if my suggestion sounds not so smart, just trying to be helpful here

 

[jacob]

i've got a few question as i'm not able to(in buysell sections). moderator pls advice.

1) how come i can't reply to threads started by others?
2) how do i update my thread?

there's no reply buttons.

thanks in advance for any inputs.

 

[Vincent Vincent]

Firstly, let me preface my replies (and all that follow) by saying that it is impossible to cater to every member's liking thus we have had to make decisions that, in our opinion, would suit most members most of the time. Our opinion may be spot-on, off slightly or off totally, and that is why we have this feedback section to hear members out.

Now onwards to try and clarify the statements below (which I have grouped roughly according to the type of feedback.)









The ability for the threadstarter to post replies/updates was something that we internally debated about, and we wanted to run a trial to see if having this system would work better than the previous one where we had threadstarters bumping their posts several times a day (if you analyse the previous section, bumps were by far outweighing the use of replies to update the thread - on an average).

This bumping was in part necessary due to the volume of posts in the Buy & Sell which essentially meant that threads could easily be relegated to the back pages even within a 24 hr time period.

Now, with brand-separated sections, the volume of posts per section will be lessened thus it may not be necessary to bump the posts so often (we hope).

Having said that, we do recognise the need to allow the threadowner to update his/her thread and we will revisit this need in the near future. Please allow us to test the new sections as it is first to gauge effectiveness, and then we can adjust as necessary.

As buyers and sellers, members can also gauge for themselves the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of this new system and then give feedback when we revisit this need (for threadstarter to be able to make updates).

I agree, the space and bandwidth allowance is one of the normal problem for forum like this, added by the over flooding of 'Bumps', making it worst, I think it can be minimized by limiting number of replies per person, say 10 each day, maybe only for the ' Personal Classifieds ' ? so maybe with this limitation, every member including the thread owner can utilize their chances wisely, this in fact, the amount of bumping here and there would be gradually reduced. so I think, people will think twice to give their replies whenever they feel like but only when it necessary. so instead of replying a thread or bumping it, interested parties of a certain thread can directly PM the thread owner and it's up to the thread owner to post up updates or replies accordingly.

my 2 cents

 

[CYRN]

Great way to segment the marketplace:thumbsup:

How about letting the threadstarter having the option to edit the original post but lets say only in 24hr window. I fully support that interested parties can communicate off the thread to prevent flooding of B&S. However, I strongly suggest that there should be a way to let others know that the item have been sold or at least some sort of expiry...ie threads more that 3 months are deemed closed and automatically archived.

As for 3rd party, maybe can adopt a convention like... for eg.. EF-mount Sigma lenses should go to Canon's B&S and likewise F-mount lenses all goes to Nikon B&S regardless of manufacturer as it can be stated in the thread title itself. Something like this.

 

[knpan]

It is quite difficult to find our own thread now that the "up" is gone, therefor do we take longer time to sell our stuff?

 

[roygoh]

It is quite difficult to find our own thread now that the "up" is gone, therefor do we take longer time to sell our stuff?

Don't quite understand your problem. In the past you still need to find your own thread before you can post a "upz", so why is it more difficult now?

Also, once your thread ad is posted, all subsequent dealings with potential buyers will be through PM, email, or other means.

Finally, there is always the search function.

 

[roygoh]

Thanks for taking the trouble to explain, i do think that you guys are doing a great job overall.

I do want to clarify a point about "eqmpt discussions" in buy/sell threads. Sometimes a particular item is put up in which the compatibility with various generations of body/lens combo is not well known. Perhaps it is "correct" to start a new thread in the appropriate brand forum to try and ask before going back to consider to buy. However, more often than not, a simple question on the thread can be quickly answered for all who are interested to buy to know.

If constant upping of the thread is the key issue, is it (from a technical perspective) possible to present the threads based on the START date/time rather than the latest post? Then, one can still post on it but there will be no more impetus to upzz as the position of the post will not move.

Thanks again.

Such questions can be asked via PM directly to the seller. instead of starting a thread in the equipment discussions.

So what about others who have the same question, you might ask. The answer is, they can all ask the same question to the seller via PM. It may seem cumbersome at first, but in the long run, it will hopefully teach sellers to be more careful and accurate in posting ads.

 

[donchua]

Don't quite understand your problem. In the past you still need to find your own thread before you can post a "upz", so why is it more difficult now?

Also, once your thread ad is posted, all subsequent dealings with potential buyers will be through PM, email, or other means.

Finally, there is always the search function.

There is no 'Reply' or 'Quote' button as highlighted by jacob.
So we cannot post any reply in others or our own sale thread to 'Upz' it..

 

[Darren]

sorry, i am not an expert in the forum s/w, but if there's a way to post a reply to the thread without the ability to bring it back to the front, wouldn't it solve some of the problems?

I agree, the space and bandwidth allowance is one of the normal problem for forum like this, added by the over flooding of 'Bumps', making it worst, I think it can be minimized by limiting number of replies per person, say 10 each day, maybe only for the ' Personal Classifieds ' ? so maybe with this limitation, every member including the thread owner can utilize their chances wisely, this in fact, the amount of bumping here and there would be gradually reduced. so I think, people will think twice to give their replies whenever they feel like but only when it necessary. so instead of replying a thread or bumping it, interested parties of a certain thread can directly PM the thread owner and it's up to the thread owner to post up updates or replies accordingly.

How about letting the threadstarter having the option to edit the original post but lets say only in 24hr window. I fully support that interested parties can communicate off the thread to prevent flooding of B&S. However, I strongly suggest that there should be a way to let others know that the item have been sold or at least some sort of expiry...ie threads more that 3 months are deemed closed and automatically archived.

The questions here are system-related, so I have grouped them together.

All the above are great suggestions, however, those functions can only be achieved using hacks and modifications to the system software that we are using. We are not currently prepared to do extensive modifications due to hardware limitations that we have. We may look into implementing some of the limits in future when we have the appropriate hardware in place. Members may have noticed that the forums experience slowdowns between 10pm and midnight on most nights when there are more than 1,200 users online - this is primarily because of the hardware which is already working 200% overtime to meet the demands.

Editing of posts can be limited to a 24hr window, however this will affect the entire forums, not just the Personal Classifieds. If members feel that their priority is to be able to to edit their Personal Classified posts (with a 24hr limit) vs being able to edit their posts elsewhere in the forums without limit, we can make the change - its a tradeoff, and again, if we didn't have system performance limitations, we could explore making it a section-specific limit.

 

[Darren]

As for 3rd party, maybe can adopt a convention like... for eg.. EF-mount Sigma lenses should go to Canon's B&S and likewise F-mount lenses all goes to Nikon B&S regardless of manufacturer as it can be stated in the thread title itself. Something like this.

Already being looked into, and we will tweak the system and guidelines to accomodate.

 

[Darren]

There is no 'Reply' or 'Quote' button as highlighted by jacob.
So we cannot post any reply in others or our own sale thread to 'Upz' it..

Hi Don,

This was already clarified earlier in this thread. We are giving the "closed thread" system a trial and we will gather feedback at a later date to determine if threadstarter will be allowed to update their threads.

As for other members being able to post a reply into another member's thread, we feel that by limiting replies, we can cut down on the price-crashing and OT that has plagued the Buy/Sell section in the past. Again, we will revisit this at a more appropriate time in the future.

Please allow the new sections some time for the members to get familiarised and we can discuss on future tweaks and enhancements that will make the sections better for the majority of members and will fulfil their needs most of the time.

 

[thinkvision]

not good method, best way is setting up specific forum for B&S and put limit for only 24 hr or 48 hr reply

 

[shocky]

It is quite difficult to find our own thread now that the "up" is gone, therefor do we take longer time to sell our stuff?

I do agree with the that upz is a large wastage of bandwidth. However, since many people don't faithfully close their threads, the upz somehow serve to indicate that sale is still on.

It also allows more active users to bring their threads more forward, if they are in a hurry to sell compared to others, who may be in no hurry and just putting up the sale item, to sell if a good price can be gotten.

Next about updates, if normal users are neither allowed to edit their post, non allowed to post a reply, then how do they update? BNP reduced, closing deal in XX days, found new hairline scratch on lens, throw in free stuff with purchase etc there are just uncountable ways why updates are required.

So, if members need to update but cant, what do they do? start a new post then. What next for the admin? Restrict number of new ad a registered member can make a day? Then what will those who have more to sell do? Register multiple accounts and post to the limit of how many new ads a day. The same exact thing happened in HWZ classified, and it was rather messy, everyday 80% of the new ads are exactly same as the day before.

Thus, my conclusion? The previous system was just fine.

Make changes with a specific goal, not for the sake of change please.