F80 users: Dynamic AF, any good?


Status
Not open for further replies.

Ansel

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2003
2,209
0
36
Land Downunder
Visit site
Dear F80 users:

Just wondering how many of you actually use the Dynamic AF feature on the F80. We all know how it works, but does anyone of us actually use it at all? For those who've used this feature, mind sharing your experience with us? Is this technology realiable and practical?
 

D100 also has Dynamic AF, and it uses the same AF module as the F80. So u might want to ask D100 users too.

Used this mode on my D100 before, but I didn't manage to do an objective test with the same moving subject, so it's hard to say if it really works.

Same goes for the predictive AF tracking... not sure if it makes a big diff.
 

Hey Ansel,

It works. But i almost never use it. ;)

A lot of practice is required to get it right. And (panning) technique differs from subject to subject. I get better results focusing manually. Especially useful if the movement of the subject is well known and established/predictable.

Reliable? Yeah, perhaps. Practical? Maybe. But it's difficult to track a moving subject (100 meters away) with say a 400mm lens, tripod mounted, on an overcast day. The Dynamic AF goes berserk trying to focus and i lose precious moments.

Roch
 

Originally posted by rochkoh
A lot of practice is required to get it right. And (panning) technique differs from subject to subject. I get better results focusing manually. Especially useful if the movement of the subject is well known and established/predictable.
Roch

Actually strange you mentioned that because this is the technology specifically designed for situations where subject movement is unpredictable, especially when you use "closest subject priority" mode of the Dyn. AF.

I guess for a lot of us, it may be more reliable, or I should say, we are more comfortable with, focusing ourselves.
 

too slow on the f80

f100 better
 

Several factors come to mind.

It's not quite the same thing, dynamic or any other AF with the F80 and D100. The fact that one is a 1.5x sensor and therefore viewfinder, and the other full frame, makes a world of difference.

Forget closest subject priority on the dynamic AF if you're using continuous. Works fine for single for non-speed specific functions, but the extra processing required brings the camera to a crawl. The same holds for Canon bodies. There are also major issues with closest subject priority; I wouldn't touch it on a 1.5x sensor body, I would consider it with a full frame body but again, the speed is an impediment.

I use dynamic AF for some applications and not others. Dynamic AF without closest subject priorty also slows the camera down a bit, but not anywhere near as much as with closest subject enabled (again, same on the Canons). I shoot cricket, tennis, basketball among others with only one focusing point. I shoot football and rugby with dynamic AF enabled, generally speaking, although in certain lighting conditions I will switch back to single.

Once you're familiar with the camera, you should have a good idea which will work better in what situation. And you should also know within 5 minutes of shooting your subject if your choice is right or wrong. I could explain things here but you're better off trying things for yourself; there's not even a need to expend film or card space.

Rochkoh, I'm not sure about your comments. Are you thinking about the same thing?

A lot of practice is required to get it right. And (panning) technique differs from subject to subject.

I don't see how dynamic AF needs practice. If it does, chances are you're trying to get it to do something it isn't meant to do. And I don't see how panning technique is relevant to this discussion either.

I get better results focusing manually.

Good for you. But 99.8% of the people out there would probably be better off with some kind of AF. I spent about a year if not more shooting professionally with an MF lens. It's definitely do-able, and I'd like to think I'm reasonable at it too, but my hit rate is far, far better using either AF mode. You are either exceedingly good at manual focusing (in which case, good for you), or just not very good at AF use. Logically if you can MF, you must be able to master AF!

Especially useful if the movement of the subject is well known and established/predictable.

Yes but in this case, the AF very rarely makes a hash of things either.

But it's difficult to track a moving subject (100 meters away) with say a 400mm lens, tripod mounted, on an overcast day.

If you struggle to track your subject with such a setup (100m!) then I would be exceedingly surprised if you were able to keep focus on it as well. Not saying you can't, I just find some of your analogies and comments a bit contradictory.

Incidentally I just did plenty of tracking and focusing in roughly the abovementioned scenario for most of today. 40-50m away (in theory more challenging), 400 to 1200mm lens (again in theory more challenging), and as overcast as can be, and tripod mounted. Certainly no problems tracking the subject whatsoever. The F100/F5 AF module screws up less than the F80 module (I was shooting with both), but any screwups were down to identified and identifiable weak strengths of the system - absence of contrast and operator error. Yes, operator error. But the margin for operator error with AF is about 200-fold less than the margin for operator error with MF.

Just stating my experience.
 

I'm honoured. A simple para from me and i'm graced with a whole chapter from Jed. :)

Jed, to put expectations and experiences straight, i don't shoot the same kinda stuff as you do, or as often as you do. I'm a weekend/holiday shooter and do mainly street and travel photography.

I based what i wrote on a weekend at Kallang trying to take pictures of wakeboarders. I had a lot of problems focusing with my F80, 80-200/2.8 with 2X-TC, trying to track them wakeboarders while they're being dragged along. Located on a beach, i best i could do was to fill a quarter of the screen with the subject. Problem was, i could not get a lock on the wakeboarder in action.

I don't see how dynamic AF needs practice. If it does, chances are you're trying to get it to do something it isn't meant to do. And I don't see how panning technique is relevant to this discussion either.

The wakerboarders were either moving right to left, or left to right. And i had to move my camera in tandem with the movement of the subject - panning technique. Was i doing anything wrongly?

Logically if you can MF, you must be able to master AF!

Agreed. And so since my camera was going berserk with all that focusing, i switched to manual mode, tracked the subject - and got most of my shots. :)

Especially useful if the movement of the subject is well known and established/predictable.

Yes but in this case, the AF very rarely makes a hash of things either.


True. But in my case, it did. Was the subject too small? Was my equipment at fault? Was i using the wrong technique?

If you struggle to track your subject with such a setup (100m!) then I would be exceedingly surprised if you were able to keep focus on it as well.

Exactly what i was facing. It was more like 60-70 meters - much more than half the length of a football field.

Not saying you can't, I just find some of your analogies and comments a bit contradictory.

Really? How so?

but any screwups were down to identified and identifiable weak strengths of the system - absence of contrast and operator error. Yes, operator error. But the margin for operator error with AF is about 200-fold less than the margin for operator error with MF.

AF is a god-send. No doubt. But it does screw up sometimes. What kinda operator errors were you talking about?

Just stating my experience.

Thanks for sharing. I'm learning too. :)

regards
Roch
 

Actually I don't think I've provided much insight at all. None of what I say are backed up by reasons; like I say in the first post, that's so you can go learn for yourself, which is the best way to learn.

Originally posted by rochkoh
I had a lot of problems focusing with my F80, 80-200/2.8 with 2X-TC, trying to track them wakeboarders while they're being dragged along... ...Problem was, i could not get a lock on the wakeboarder in action.

Ah. But you see, that's dangerous. 80-200 AF-D or AF-S? If it's AF-D, then your results are entirely expected. Don't then go and write off the camera's autofocus, and dynamic autofocus, because it's not what's causing the problem. There's a reason why Nikon doesn't sell 2x converters which maintain AF for screwdriver driven lenses - it doesn't work. Plenty of third party manufacturers sell them, and they do move the focusing elements, but at a snails pace and with such lack of pace that yes indeed you are better off shooting manually half the time.

If it's an AF-S combi you were using, then really assuming decent sunlight, the camera shouldn't have a problem either. Aside from the light loss resulting in two stops of light less reaching the AF sensor, the combi should function everybit as well as an unencumbered AF lens.

The wakerboarders were either moving right to left, or left to right. And i had to move my camera in tandem with the movement of the subject - panning technique. Was i doing anything wrongly?

No, nothing wrong. Just not relevant to the viability of dynamic AF. Being able to track a subject requires your own practice, yes... hand eye co-ordination. It's necessary whether you're manual focusing, autofocusing with one point or with dynamic AF. So I don't see how it's relevant in a discussion of whether dynamic AF works. In fact, you need the most practice with MF, because in addition to following the subject, you also need to be able to focus at the same time... massive amounts of hand eye co-ordination needed. Which is why I said I found it curious you could MF and follow, but not AF and follow.

And so since my camera was going berserk with all that focusing, i switched to manual mode, tracked the subject - and got most of my shots. :)

Good for you, at least shows you're thinking. At the moment I'd be inclined to blame the converter.

True. But in my case, it did. Was the subject too small? Was my equipment at fault? Was i using the wrong technique?

Subject too small - quite possibly. Equipment at fault - see above about converters. Wrong technique - I can't tell without observing you, but it doesn't sound like you had a problem.

What kinda operator errors were you talking about?

Missing the subject with the AF point. No AF system in the world can focusing on a subject that it isn't pointed at. Mind you the Nikon system does a good job of temporarily not reaquiring focus should this happen. In fact, this is the main reason to use dynamic AF which increases this potential, when you can spare the raw speed of a single AF point, and are not shooting subjects where having five instead of one point are a problem.
 

to put it straight: continuous AF (canon lingo) on pro grade bodies does work well. [note: nikon lingo will be dynamic AF]

for example, using eos 1V: set AF to continuous, set focussing point selection to auto. also set frame advance to more than 1 fps .

then watch your front, wait for whatever moving subject to appear and just use that big ellipse seen in the viewfinder to cover it. tracking will take place then u just fire at will


same approach, but this time, using nikon f5: set frame advance to more than 1fps, and AF to "c" (recall that m,s,c switch), and set AF area selection choice to "dynamic". now instead of the big ellipse found on canon 1V, this time just make sure the moving subject appear within the central circle coz the 5 AF areas lie in that region
 

Except it's a lot more complicated than that.
 

:dunno:

I hv gone through all that has been written on Dynamic AF of Nikon and it just left me stumped

As for my experience...i hv had no problems using dynamic AF...its always worked fine with me...when i am capturing a moving object either towards me or away from me...:thumbsup:

And i dont understand what has panning to do with dynamic AF..both are quite different from each other..
 

Status
Not open for further replies.