Choosing My First RF Camera


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chiif

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I am preparing a FAQ for my web site and gathering questions new RF users might have before investing their money into a new system. Hence, if you have any questions, please post them on this thread and I will do my best to answer them with my limited knowledge over here.

To start off....


Q: What is the difference between Bessa R2, R3 & R4?
A: The main difference between the 3 Bessa bodies is in the inbuilt framelines and their viewfinder magnification.

The Bessa R2 has a viewfinder magnification factor of 0.7x and has framelines of 35, 50, 75 & 90mm. While the R3 viewfinder is 1x and has 40, 50, 75 & 90mm framelines. The R4 framelines are 21, 25, 28, 35, 50mm and viewfinder magnification is 0.52x.

So, which one should I choose if I am a new to RF? It all depends on your style of shooting and what do you intend to use the RF body to shoot with. The R2 series body is probably the most suitable & versatile camera body for beginners who have been comfortable with the 35mm focal length and will probably get a second lens, like the 50mm or 75mm down the road. The viewfinder is also suitable for the 28mm focal length if you take the entire viewfinder frame as an estimate.

If you are the kind RF shooter who prefers to open both eyes to shoot, then the R3 series is the one to go for with the 1x life size magnification factor. The best lens to go along with the R3 is probably the 40mm/f1.4. A value for money excellent overall performer, great to bring along for holidays where you need to travel light. If you prefer to travel light, and are the one lens one body kind of photographer, the R3 & 40mm combi will be an excellent pair and serve you for a long while.

R4 is a body specially tailored for wide angle shooters. It is probably the only 35mm RF body with a 0.52x magnification that has inbuilt 21mm framelines. Coupled with the 21mm/f4 P lens, this is the perfect tool for wide angle and panoramic photography.


Q: What is R2A & R2M? What does the suffix A & M mean?
A: The suffix "A" means the camera body has electronic shutter and has the "Aperture Priority" (also know as the AE - Auto-Exposure) mode. That means, when you set to the "A" mode, you select the aperture, the camera body will automatically select the appropriate shutter speed based on the in-camera light meter reading and correctly expose your picture.

The "A" version is particularly useful for situations where you find a perfect moment in a flash and do not want to miss the perfect shot.Without having to fiddle too much on settings, you can get correctly exposed picture in the quickest time.

The M version has mechanical shutter. It has a in-built light meter which shows the Through-The-Lens (TTL) light meter reading in the viewfinder. It does not have the "A" mode, you will need to set the shutter speed based on the meter reading on the viewfinder to get correctly exposed shots.

The M version is non-battery dependent and the shutter can work at all speed without batteries, while the A version needs the battery to fire the shutter.

Q: If i get a RF without the AE function, would it be really hard for me as a beginner to learn how to use a fully manual RF?
The light meter reading in the M version is pretty intuitive and easily visible. It takes a very short while to get used to and use the camera effectively. To get better you just have to practice.

If you are a purist, like everything mechanical, marvel at mechanical watches and antique cars, then I would recommend you to get the M version. It's not difficult to get good at setting the shutter speed quickly as it only takes some practice.
 

What is Elmar, Elmarit, Summicron & Summilux? What is "bokeh"?:bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie:

Great idea chiif!:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

:D What the different between ultron, nokton, color skopar and heliar classic lens series aside from max fstop ?
 

Why are there M, screw/LTM, S, etc mount? What do they stand for?
 

1) What is a rangefinder? How does it differ from point & shoot cameras or SLR?

2) What are framelines? If a camera has specific framelines does that mean we can use only those lenses?

3) Do all rangefinders (with changeable lenses) have framelines - eg does Leica M bodies have framelines as well?

4) Can we use the SLR lenses on rangefinders? what is the difference between rangefinder lenses and SLR lenses

you see I am really a newbie.. I know these are stupid questions..
 

What are some accessories that go with the RF cameras?

What about flash photography?

What is RF good for? Limitations?
 

- will what I see in my viewfinder on a rangefinder appear exactly on my picture like my SLR?
- why do I see a little extra viewfinder fitted on top of some rangefinder cameras? (hint: for wider or narrower framelines)
 

the questions are beginning to sound more like a dummies guild to rf... most useful and relevant to ppl "before investing their money into a new system".

but this can fast develop into a long unwieldy list to answer. would suggest that you stick to a general question on "what is rf" or "why rf", followed by sometime to differentiate the benefits of the various bodies (R2, R3 & R4, A&M, M&LTM), followed by names of the lenses (notkon, ultron, etc), mounts (LTM adaptors), viewfinders, warranty.

but based on the questions brought up already, it seems like it would be good for the subforum to put up a sticky on a RF FAQ together with a glossary of terms.
 

Thanks everyone for input! Some more please...

I will do my best to answer one by one here. Or some kind souls please help up! :)

Where is my sifu? YOL925????
 

Here is the English pages of the Bessa R2A/R3A/R4A manual in PDF format. This should be useful for people who are still considering an RF and wondering what are the features of the camera in depth.

The R2M/R3M/R4M version coming shortly.

To download, click here or http://www.chiifcameras.com/download/Bessa_Manual_A_ver.pdf
 

Here is the English pages of the Bessa R2A/R3A/R4A manual in PDF format. This should be useful for people who are still considering an RF and wondering what are the features of the camera in depth.

The R2M/R3M/R4M version coming shortly.

To download, click here or http://www.chiifcameras.com/download/Bessa_Manual_A_ver.pdf

haha....deja vu... just read it last night!;p
 

Can advise on the viewfinder magnification? When people sell their stuffs, they always post 0.58, 0.72, 0.85 and so on. What does it means? :embrass:

Perhaps a gathering for the people to meet and maybe try try the camera will be good. Nothing beats trying it out. ;)
 

Hello Chiif,

I think Bessa R2 with framelines of 35, 50, 75 & 90mm will be the most common option. I was reading the Leica M history book and the M lens are the modern ones. The Bessa accessories allow the M compatible flexibilities. Great.

Leica R bayonet 47.00 mm
Leica LTM screw 28.80 mm
Leica M bayonet 27.80 mm

My question now is, what makes the RF sooo attractive? Shooting with both eys open ? Surely, it is the lens and picture quality. From optics design. RF has the advantage of able to bring the last lens close to the film plane, and unlike SLR need a long distance to acommodate the flipping mirror.

I like you to include in your FAQ, the outstanding Voigtland lens and how they compare to the Leica. You should include some sample picture. These were the 3 lense I once had the opportunity to use for short while about 8 years ago:35 Summicron F2 (M3), 50 Summilux F1.4 , 75 Summicron F2.0 . Cannot afford them actually, but I was fortunately to have them for 6 months to use. Now, if you can do the following comparison and comments, it will be great.

35 Summicron F2 (M3) vs Ultron 35mm F1.7

50 Summilux F1.4 vs Nokton 50mm F1.5 ASPH

75 Summicron F2.0 vs Color-Heliar 75mm F2.5

The comparison may not be very representative of a 35-50-75/90 Trilogy, but these are the 3 lenses of Leica I had experience with, and I wonder how the Voigtland performs. Not much information from the WEB. Picture speaks a 1000 words. If they are vivid and nice then I contemplaing to buy from you ( ;) ), after getting the Topcor 58 first (dont sell away hor! I want it!)

If you can do this comparison chart, it will be a very interesting information.

Maybe because of years of using Nikkor AIS primes, I am very used to the colour saturation of Nippon optics on Velvia slides. I am also a fan of Schneidler lens for vivid colours. Leica is too plain for me, personally.... but it is certainly very three dimentional.
 

Thanks Jonathon! You will definitely have a copy of the Topcor 58mm tomorrow. :)

Many people love RF for different reasons. With no mirror flap, focal plane closer to rear lens element, able to shoot both eyes wide open, inconspicuous, light & easy to carry around...

Personally, what I like most is the lack of mirror flap and virtually "vibrationless" feeling when I press the shutter release in the RF camera. I also feel that with a smaller body and lens (compared to a SLR) subjects would feel more at ease when faced with a small little camera, than with a black or white long zoom with a chunky body with battery grip.

It is very hard to compare Voigtlander lenses with the Leitz lenses. Image quality is a very subjective matter. What Cosina & Voigtlander is trying to achieve is providing photoenthusiasts an alternative to the Leica lenses on the ever popular M mount bodies, which used to be limited to the Leica family. I don't think Cosina's aim is to compete in the field of image quality with Leica or Zeiss. However, some of the lenses they produced (for example the 125/f2.5 SL & 75/f2.5) in the past were so good that it almost gained a cult status after it went out of production.

We are only starting to see the renaissance of RF and film. The M8 has managed to captured some of the younger generations of photographers and won them over to simplicity of photography and introduced them to other members of the M family (M3, M2, M1, M4, M5, M6, M7). And... also the Bessa R2, R3, R4, Zeiss Ikon, Hexar RF, Canon screw mount...

Whether Cosina/Voigtlander performs as well as the Leica/Zeiss, I guess it's best left to the individual photographers to discover & conclude themselves. Part of the fun for enthusiasts is to debate and "fight" over which one or who is better. Afterall, the modern Zeiss ZM, ZF, ZK, ZS lenses come from the same hands that produced & assembled the Cosina/Voigtlander lenses.

If photographers want a good review or reference, the Luminous Landscape reviews & Sean Reid are both pretty well respected web sites that have comprehensive comparison test of the lenses.
 

Can advise on the viewfinder magnification? When people sell their stuffs, they always post 0.58, 0.72, 0.85 and so on. What does it means? :embrass:

Perhaps a gathering for the people to meet and maybe try try the camera will be good. Nothing beats trying it out. ;)

On a RF camera, the image the photographer sees is not the true image that will be captured on the focal plane (film/sensor). The photographer view the image through a side window (viewfinder) on the left side of the camera body and uses the viewfinder to frame his subject.

When you view through a viewfinder with magnification 1x, you will find that image is live-size through the viewfinder and opening both eyes to view/focus will not give you dizzy spells.

With a 0.52 magnification, you will find that images through the viewfinder appears to be smaller and your angle of view is also much wider. The reason why such a low magnification is required is because the Bessa R4 needs to squeeze in the 21mm framelines into the viewfinder.

The Bessa R2 series has magnification factor of 0.7x where R3 is 1x and R4 is 0.52x.

Hope that explains what magnification factor means.

You can always give me a ring and arrange for an appointment to view the camera. :)
 

Hello Chiif

Yes you are right in your statements that the lens performance is very much a personal taste/preference. Just like some like food really spicy some like it clear and plain.

Previously I was pretty contended with my Nikkor 50mmF1.4/F1.8 and also the Contax 45mm Tessar pancake on a Aria. When I saw the RAW files of the Topcor 58mm F1.4 with a D80 my jaw dropped to the floor. I have since sold the Nikkor, because I only want to have one lens I love than many lenses that I may not be motivated to shoot again and again. I cannot wait to try the Topcor out on F90x/Fuji Velvia as well. The slide projector will tell a lot more about this lens.

You see, picture speaks a thousand word.

For the same argument, I am asking you to show the pictures taken by the Ultron 35mm F1.7, Nokton 50mm F1.5 ASPH, Color-Heliar 75mm F2.5 .

Indeed in your website we see the pictures of how these lenses look like. For me, how a lens look is how a lens look. What is the picture quality? Don't know.

I used to own the Bessa T with the Snap-shot Skopar. Previously, I have a few nice 24mm like the Sigma 24mm F2.8, Nikkor 24mm F2 AIS, Nikkor 24mm 2.8 AF. Until I saw the distortion free and almost 3D result of the Snap-shot Skopar, it really changed my mind. And the Snap-shot Skopar was not the top of the range item in the Voigtlander line.

Include some pictures taken by the lenses. It will convince many doubting Thomas or blur sotong like me.
 

On a RF camera, the image the photographer sees is not the true image that will be captured on the focal plane (film/sensor). The photographer view the image through a side window (viewfinder) on the left side of the camera body and uses the viewfinder to frame his subject.

When you view through a viewfinder with magnification 1x, you will find that image is live-size through the viewfinder and opening both eyes to view/focus will not give you dizzy spells.

With a 0.52 magnification, you will find that images through the viewfinder appears to be smaller and your angle of view is also much wider. The reason why such a low magnification is required is because the Bessa R4 needs to squeeze in the 21mm framelines into the viewfinder.

The Bessa R2 series has magnification factor of 0.7x where R3 is 1x and R4 is 0.52x.

Hope that explains what magnification factor means.

You can always give me a ring and arrange for an appointment to view the camera. :)


Thanks! Just wondering how do you focus? Is there a split focus screen, or something? Please advise.
 

I presume you have used XPAN before (seeing it on your avarta). Works the same way :)

It has a focusing patch in the centre and when the coincident image match, it is in focus. Something like the split focus screen, but works on a different principal.
 

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