Why Olympus or M43 users should keep their gear?

[ricohflex]

Here.

Olympus M.Zuiko 100-400mm f/5.0-6.3 IS review

The Olympus M.Zuiko 100-400mm f/5.0-6.3 IS delivers 200-800mm of reach – but is its image quality as impressive?

www.digitalcameraworld.com

Maybe you read wrongly. I said Made for Olympics.

Made for Olympics is my guess. Not read anywhere.
Original start date of Tokyo 2020 Olympics is last week of July 2020.
A long gestation period from idea to testing to actual production and distribution.
One cannot suddenly want to make a lens 1 week before Olympics.
Thus probably Olympus may have some units of this lens in the warehouse before the MOA with Camera Division to JIP was announced.
But this rumor seems to say the same thing.

Olympus 150-400mm Pro will arrive just before Tokyo Olympics next July – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[ricohflex]

Olympus Camera Division died (a business death) and JIP is the undertaker who was called in to clean up the mess.

The MOA is a process by which big corporations save face. Hence the argument that "Olympus did not die". It was simply MOAed away.

Such arrangements are a legal loop hole to allow big corporations to shortchange their loyal employees who may have worked more than 3 decades for the company.
This is a mechanism by which they can be removed without the parent company having to pay hefty workers' compensations $$$.
Now they work for JIP. They don't work for Olympus anymore.

This is a tragic real life scenario for hundreds or thousands of workers - and their families.

Do not be under any delusion that JIP will continue to make and sell cameras and lenses under the Olympus brand, for next decade.
Do not be under any delusion that JIP will look after the welfare of the former employees of Olympus Camera Division.

The people at JIP are accountants - bean counters in love with MONEY $$$.

The parent company Olympus may have to PAY money to JIP as incentive to take over Olympus Camera Division.
Hence Olympus senior executives were telling the truth when they previously said that Olympus had no plans to sell the Camera Division.

 

[Pitachu]

We are not under any delusions. These are business survival decisions and you could be right
on why Olympus pass the buck to JIP.

But having say that, there could also be other camera makers who may also not survive in the near future.

NIKON UK IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN! I REPEAT: NIKON UK IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN - Nikon Rumors

Clueless people are spreading fake rumors online again. Nikon UK WILL NOT lay off all their stuff and close down, I repeat: NIKON UK WILL NOT CLOSE DOWN! The employees that are being laid off are outsourced by a third party company in the UK. They are not Nikon employees. I believe (I am not […]

nikonrumors.com

Reminds me of when Olympus also started off with some rumors......

Let's not waste time predicting the downfall of any company.
Products come and go...............eg. typewritters, video cameras, car gps, CD Players.....

If you see a product that can meet your needs, just buy or keep it.
Be glad if it can last 3 years or more. Things are not built to last anymore,
unlike our old TVs and Household appliances.

Olympus Camera Division died (a business death) and JIP is the undertaker who was called in to clean up the mess.

The MOA is a process by which big corporations save face. Hence the argument that "Olympus did not die". It was simply MOAed away.

Such arrangements are a legal loop hole to allow big corporations to shortchange their loyal employees who may have worked more than 3 decades for the company.
This is a mechanism by which they can be removed without the parent company having to pay hefty workers' compensations $$$.
Now they work for JIP. They don't work for Olympus anymore.

This is a tragic real life scenario for hundreds or thousands of workers - and their families.

Do not be under any delusion that JIP will continue to make and sell cameras and lenses under the Olympus brand, for next decade.
Do not be under any delusion that JIP will look after the welfare of the former employees of Olympus Camera Division.

The people at JIP are accountants - bean counters in love with MONEY $$$.

The parent company Olympus may have to PAY money to JIP as incentive to take over Olympus Camera Division.
Hence Olympus senior executives were telling the truth when they previously said that Olympus had no plans to sell the Camera Division.

 

[Pitachu]

I just noticed that the Sony A7S mark 1 to mark 3 has not increased the resolution beyond 12mp.
The Canon EOS 1Dx Mk1 is 18mp, and Mk2 and 3 is 20mp.

Since both manufacturers already have very high megapixels sensors,
why did they not increase the megapixel for their Mk3 version released this year.

This probably proves my point that increasing the resolution beyond 20mp is not always necessary in every application.
In fact, Sony don't see a need to go beyond 12mp for their latest A7 Siii.

There is really no reason to get something like the Canon R5 for 6K and 8K videos and has it shut down on you
after 15mins to 30mins usage. You are probably better off using a M43 Camera like the Panasonic GH5 for videos,
which don't even have the 30min limit compared to most other DSLRs.


There is also no reason to use a very high mp camera if you are doing continuous high FPS shooting
eg. Action sports or a bird taking off or catching a prey. You may end up waiting a couple of seconds
for the buffer to clear and miss the next action.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying High Mp cameras are no good. eg. If you are into landscapes
that need very high dynamic range or resolution, then go for them by all means.

But there is definitely a need for lower megapixel and small sensor cameras. And M43 cameras
fall into this category

 

[Blu-By-U]

Wonder how they made those claims. The 2 other sites do show the differences.

Ah..that clarifies. Thought you had a Typo..

That brings me back to the question that you have not answered. post #32,

"Do you own any Oly stuff? Are you selling your Oly stuff? "

Here.

Olympus M.Zuiko 100-400mm f/5.0-6.3 IS review

The Olympus M.Zuiko 100-400mm f/5.0-6.3 IS delivers 200-800mm of reach – but is its image quality as impressive?

www.digitalcameraworld.com

View attachment 79142

Maybe you read wrongly. I said Made for Olympics.

Made for Olympics is my guess. Not read anywhere.
Original start date of Tokyo 2020 Olympics is last week of July 2020.
A long gestation period from idea to testing to actual production and distribution.
One cannot suddenly want to make a lens 1 week before Olympics.
Thus probably Olympus may have some units of this lens in the warehouse before the MOA with Camera Division to JIP was announced.
But this rumor seems to say the same thing.

Olympus 150-400mm Pro will arrive just before Tokyo Olympics next July – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[ricohflex]

Wonder how they made those claims. The 2 other sites do show the differences.

Ah..that clarifies. Thought you had a Typo..

That brings me back to the question that you have not answered. post #32,

"Do you own any Oly stuff? Are you selling your Oly stuff? "

He was not paid to say nice things.

See post #5. Already stated.

Not counting my Olympus FILM cameras and lenses, which I like and will keep.
Plus some Olympus digital compacts that have no resale value. I don't care.

Personally, I feel Olympus Camera Division CEO has let down his employees - by letting his personal ego and vanity about MFT over-ride his responsibility to make the Olympus Camera Division a viable business that makes money in the era of digital cameras.

 

[JW73]

I have no loyalty to any brands. But i feel the m zuiko 40-150mm f2. 8 pro w mc14 and mc20 is a combo that other formats do not have in terms of the reach/size /sharpness and brightness combination. I m looking at it based on the lens matching to the actual sensor size. Pls do not tell me a FF can crop etc. Been there done that. Of course this pro lens main con is the v filmsy hood which I replaced it w a canon et-78 type. Not looking to earn any money from resale from equipment. Once u buy a equipment, it a lost if you are not using it.

 

[Pitachu]

On the contrary, I felt Olympus did the right thing. There is really no point for another brand to come up with
another Full Frame Camera, unless they can do a good job like Sony (probably because Sony has bought over
Konica and Minolta to get all the expertise).

I rather the market have a variety of formats for consumers to pick the most suitable format for their needs.
Not everyone want a Full Frame. That is why Sony, Nikon, Canon etc all have small format cameras.

Personally, I feel Olympus Camera Division CEO has let down his employees - by letting his personal ego and vanity about MFT over-ride his responsibility to make the Olympus Camera Division a viable business that makes money in the era of digital cameras.

 

[Blu-By-U]

There are a lot not paid. So why say bad things unless you have enough fact to substantiate the bad.

You don't have anything to loose as you are not an oly user. So why do you keep harping to things here? Nothing you say here is going to make any difference. Just look at the WTS/WTB. There is not mass dumping of the system. I doubt you single voice can cause that anyway.

So even if there is lies and deception, why not just file a class action in the international court? At least you maybe able to gather some to side you. So in my advice to you, just cool it. It does not concern you. And you should be happy should the brand disappears as then you can show off to your decedents the history you own. As for the rest of us, we can enjoy photography.

He was not paid to say nice things.

See post #5. Already stated.

Not counting my Olympus FILM cameras and lenses, which I like and will keep.
Plus some Olympus digital compacts that have no resale value. I don't care.

Personally, I feel Olympus Camera Division CEO has let down his employees - by letting his personal ego and vanity about MFT over-ride his responsibility to make the Olympus Camera Division a viable business that makes money in the era of digital cameras.

 

[Mrwind]

I moved from a Nikon D700 to m43. My first m43 camera was the E-PL1. The longest I have ever held on to a camera was the E-M5 mk1. I had it from launch until just recently when I bought a used E-M1ii.

bro where u buy the used E-M1ii and how much? looking around to buy a 2nd hand E-M1ii also

 

[Mrwind]

Those who wants to sell their m4/3 equipment as they find the images or videos it churn out are horrible. Please sell it cheap. I am eagerly looking to buy

me too hehe

 

[swifty]

M43 in general are victims of so much misunderstanding about basic principles such as equivalence, even among their own users. But the damage is done already and it's a perception that people can't shake.

To m43 users, if you can find an equivalent setting in any other format whether FF, medium format, APS-C, 1" or whatever to what you're using now in m43, you'll get an IDENTICAL image with respect to noise, FOV, motion, DR, DOF. The things equivalence does not account for are things like lens quality, pixel count, colour response etc.
Which means that if you can accomplish what you want in m43, moving to other formats within the m43 shooting envelope nets you NO gains. You have to shoot outside the shooting envelope of m43 to realise gains in other formats.

But if you need more things like resolution, different colour response, a lens not available in m43, these are perfectly valid reasons to choose another format/system.

Also, if you need an equivalent setting in m43 that is impossible to have, then you potentially can gain something if that setting is possible on another format but this is scene dependent.

Eg. If you wanted to shoot at f/8, ISO 100, 1/60s on a FF format, it is impossible to achieve this on m43 as you'd need f/4, 1/60s but no m43 sensor achieves an ISO 25. However this assumes the scene DR is wide enough that you're utilizing the full DR of the FF sensor at base ISO. If the scene DR is less than this there are other ways to achieve similarly good results and the DR potential in the FF is not realised. This is an important point. FF has the POTENTIAL for greater DR at the base 2 iso settings (compared to m43) but it's not necessarily realised unless the scene has a great enough DR to begin with.

At the other end of the spectrum, if you're constantly shooting in low light and you want to shoot at:
eg. ISO 6400, f/1.4, f/60s on FF. The equivalent m43 setting needed would be f/0.7, 1/60s, ISO 1600 but a f/0.7 lens doesn't exist so this is also an impossible setting. So on the m43 system you might put up with having to shoot at f/1.4, 1/60s and ISO 6400 which has a 2 stop deficit in noise performance as well as 2 stops deeper DOF.
When it comes to low light, you ALWAYS sacrifice DOF for it. So if the DOF you require can be set on both systems eg. m43 and FF, you equalise their low light performance. For example, you're photographing a group of people in 2 rows and require an f/4 setting on FF to get everyone in focus, you'd set f/2 on m43 and corresponding 2 lower stops in ISO for the same DOF and identical results. You gain nothing in FF when you equalise the DOF with respect to low light photography.

In between, if an equivalent setting can be found in both systems, you get the SAME results.

You then look at the what is actually available in the system and see if it suits your needs.
I still use a G9 with 10-25 f/1.7 for about 70% of my needs. If/when a lens like this or better comes out in my preferred FF system I will probably sell and move on irrespective of whether m43 is dead. The other 30% or so I have are f/1.4 lenses on FF that I can't achieve the same results on my m43 system.
I still have other m43 gear that I have little use for but it'll likely be passed on to my kids when they're old enough to learn photography or cleared out one day if I have enough time to do it.

Looking at some other m43 lenses, is there an equivalent of eg.
75mm f/1.8 (150mm f/3.5 FF lens) that is similar in size, price and performance? Sure any system could do it, but is there actually one?

So have a look at your system, know what equivalent lenses you'd need to replicate or exceed what you currently have and see whether other system actually makes those lenses? If the majority of your answer is yes and in the right size, price etc. then you probably picked the wrong system to begin with.
Also look at where you're lacking and understand whether changing system will actually help and how much it costs to get the extra performance and what you have to give up.

 

[ricohflex]

Oh, I am telling you what the market collectively has decided. (by 98% worldwide sales rejecting in 2019)
It would be much worse in Covid-19 pandemic affected 2020 if the company had not folded.
And which finally, Olympus parent company has acknowledged - that Olympus MFT has FAILED and needs to wind up/be taken over by JIP.

 

[swifty]

Are you responding to me?
If so, I thought the thread was about reasons to keep your m43 gear? Weren’t there several threads already started about reasons for Olympus’ failure?
By your reasoning even more of the world have rejected Leica yet they thrive. Reasons for Olympus’ failures are for another thread. Let’s stay on track.
My post was quite simple. Know the reasons where a system has strengths/weaknesses and know what you stand to gain or loose when you switch. There are too many poor advice out there whether wilful or ignorant.

 

[swifty]

TL: DR of my earlier post:

FF systems in general have a larger shooting envelope. The m43 system has a (relatively, not absolute) smaller shooting envelope.
The overlap are considerable.
If your shooting needs/wants fall within the m43 shooting envelope you only have a theoretical gain by moving to FF.
Within the m43 shooting envelope there are some gems although gems do loose their shine with time. OP is asking for what some of them are and to share our experience.

Responding to the OP:
A lens I consider a gem currently is the 10-25 f/1.7. It’s too large for many but it has the best focal lengths for my style of shooting so I don’t mind it. There are no direct FF equivalents and even indirectly it compares favourably. I use it predominantly for stills.

A lens I used to own that I consider a gem is the 75mm f/1.8. A little difficult to use indoors because it’s a bit too long but I like it far more than both the 56 f/1.4 or 45 f/1.8 that I’ve owned subsequently.

Pixel density (not total resolution) is an inherent advantage of smaller sensors.
Where DOF needs to be equalised, so does the various sized formats loose any advantage/disadvantages.
Putting those together one fields where m43 should potentially excel is macros.
Another is wildlife, particularly when the photographer simply can’t get close enough (skittish animals).
I’m not an avid wildlife or macro photographer so can’t offer any personal insights into particular lenses.

 

[ricohflex]

Not to you. To Blu-By-U post #51. He asked me a question previously in post #32 and reminded me in post #46, to answer.
I replied in post #47, telling the answer was already stated in post #5. Oh, well.

 

[JW73]

bro where u buy the used E-M1ii and how much? looking around to buy a 2nd hand E-M1ii also

Past few days USA BHphoto online is selling brand new at USD$899

 

[Pitachu]

I really like the way Swifty explain the concept which I have been trying so hard to put across.

Although I have met a couple of very good photographers who are able to maximize the limits
of the eg. Sony A7 iii or Nikon 850, I have also met several photographers who shots are
within the limits of the M43 envelope.

I have both Full Frame and M43 and I realized that most of my casual shots are within
the smaller envelope limits, and I really do not need to carry all the extra weight and bulk.

Moreover, M43 do have some unique lenses that have no equivalence in larger formats
(and vice versa).

In summary, it's best to embrace the strengths of each of the format and don't keep chasing
for larger formats or sensors or resolutions, unless these are your highest priority.

TL: DR of my earlier post:

FF systems in general have a larger shooting envelope. The m43 system has a (relatively, not absolute) smaller shooting envelope.
The overlap are considerable.
If your shooting needs/wants fall within the m43 shooting envelope you only have a theoretical gain by moving to FF.
Within the m43 shooting envelope there are some gems although gems do loose their shine with time. OP is asking for what some of them are and to share our experience.

Responding to the OP:
A lens I consider a gem currently is the 10-25 f/1.7. It’s too large for many but it has the best focal lengths for my style of shooting so I don’t mind it. There are no direct FF equivalents and even indirectly it compares favourably. I use it predominantly for stills.

A lens I used to own that I consider a gem is the 75mm f/1.8. A little difficult to use indoors because it’s a bit too long but I like it far more than both the 56 f/1.4 or 45 f/1.8 that I’ve owned subsequently.

Pixel density (not total resolution) is an inherent advantage of smaller sensors.
Where DOF needs to be equalised, so does the various sized formats loose any advantage/disadvantages.
Putting those together one fields where m43 should potentially excel is macros.
Another is wildlife, particularly when the photographer simply can’t get close enough (skittish animals).
I’m not an avid wildlife or macro photographer so can’t offer any personal insights into particular lenses.

 

[Mrwind]

Past few days USA BHphoto online is selling brand new at USD$899

ooo brand new m1ii good value, waiting SG drop to below SGD1500

 

[fir86]

I’ve been using 4/3 DSLR and jumped into m4/3 due to its small size. E-PL1 was my first mirrorless journey and another reason I bought that camera at that time was because I wanna stay away from the black DSLR look. During those days, phone cameras were not good and we always brought our small compact cameras. Since then, I’ve been called for more professional gigs and i decided to upgrade to em5 mk ii followed by GH5 as it’s a more well rounded camera for photos and videos. However times has changed and many are moving to full frame. Many would prefer me having Sony or Canon so that they can match the colours easily. Using em5 mk ii and gh5 for weddings can be very challenging due to the dynamic lighting conditions. Also clients prefer that shallow depth of field look. I have to find workarounds when using my 12-40mm f2.8 in order to achieve that shallow depth of field look. Decided to jump to Sony a7iii with Samyang primes and Tamron zoom lens. Price is comparatively the same but you get more control in what you can do with the camera in terms of low light, depth of field and dynamic range.
If your wildlife shooter, M4/3 has its place IMO due to the 2x crop factor and the awesome telephoto lenses they offer.
Other than that, if I decided to keep it light for traveling, I can just use my a7iii and Samyang 18mm f2.8 af and 45mm f1.8 af. And for just casual outings, smartphone cameras are good enough. That’s just my opinion.