Why Olympus or M43 users should keep their gear?


swifty

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2004
647
33
28
davophoto.wordpress.com
If you are going to just view photos taken on a small viewing platform, then those smartphones are really catching up with the dedicated cameras (mirrorless or not) Having said that, there are clip-on lenses for smartphones and some really good quality ones can really make a difference. Hence there will be in due time make carrying/using a dedicated camera may not be an viable option. But till then, I will stick with my EM1.3 with my assortment of lenses.

A simple test on quality, that moon. try shooting it to see those craters. When you can differentiate the peaks and craters, then it's time to just bury all your cameras.

Take these 2 images. One is with a P30 and the other is with EM1mk2



The quality of the first shot run rings around the second one. If that first shot isn't from the EM1.3 then I'll have egg on my face ;)
 

swifty

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2004
647
33
28
davophoto.wordpress.com
I'll share why I'm still using m43.
It's actually quite simple, it has the lens/es that I want to use.
I don't consider m43's IQ a drawback, and certainly not when my most used lens is a constant f/1.7 zoom. I simply am hardly limited by my gear.
So as long as m43 continues to produce unique lenses (and by unique I mean looking at the whole package including it's physical, optical and mechanical attributes) I will continue to consider buying m43 products.
Until my current gear becomes superseded in a meaningful way, I don't see a lot of reasons to dump it.

I should also disclose that I use multiple systems and the same applies for other systems. I buy the unique lens/es that I'm interested in, in that system and continue to use it until something supersedes it in a meaningful way that'll make me upgrade.
 

swifty

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2004
647
33
28
davophoto.wordpress.com
I did look at the Pana 100-400, but decided to waited for the Olympus 150-400 (for my birding fetish).

I always believe in having a small handy setup when I am casually with friends or family and not other photographers.
Pana 100-300 works well for me in these scenarios. It's quite unbelievable that I can get up to 600mm F5.6 equivalent lenses
which fit in my palm.

Quite sure my wife will freak out if I bring the Pana 100-400 or 150-400 for our family outings with kids :)
I can easily put my EM5 with Pana 100-300 in my small sling bag which is not even a camera bag.
$7500 USD apparently.
It’s in a different league to the Panasonic 100-400 but I think it’s priced about what you’d expect a 150-400 f/4.5 with built in TC to be, regardless of the format.
 

Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
267
23
18
54
Yep, the world is changing very rapidly. Mobile Phone is now able to simulate wide aperture shots by measuring distance of main subject and background and blurring the background. Only thing Mobile has not caught up is telephoto shots (though Samsung is using a 108 MP sensor to enable digital cropping to simulate zooming in, image quality is not so good yet). But the day will come.......

Meanwhile, I am planning to use my new Iphone 12 promax to shoot all my casual family outings as most of these shots are NOT for photo art but for memory sake. Plus, the post processing on the latest generation of phone cameras are incredible.
 

Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
267
23
18
54
I started a new thread on the
Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 150-400mm f/4.5 TC1.25X IS PRO Lens

$7500 USD apparently.
It’s in a different league to the Panasonic 100-400 but I think it’s priced about what you’d expect a 150-400 f/4.5 with built in TC to be, regardless of the format.
 

swifty

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2004
647
33
28
davophoto.wordpress.com
Speaking personally I don’t enjoy smartphone photography. It’s not the results that’s the issue. Results have been fine for some time now on their intended publishing medium (other mobile devices). And their connectivity cannot be beaten and I think are the best devices for quick grabs.

It’s the process of photographing. I place a lot of emphasis on the ergonomics and UI of the camera I use so from that respect smartphones will never replace a dedicated camera for me.
 

Blu-By-U

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2006
1,722
14
38
Selangor D.E.
I have not been following the phones sensors..are you sure it's 108mp..if those tiny sensors can pack that amount of pixels, then the fourthirds sensor can go to over 1k pixels and the FF can be over :eek: 4k. I think it's just fake 108mp..interpolation or something to that.

Yep, the world is changing very rapidly. Mobile Phone is now able to simulate wide aperture shots by measuring distance of main subject and background and blurring the background. Only thing Mobile has not caught up is telephoto shots (though Samsung is using a 108 MP sensor to enable digital cropping to simulate zooming in, image quality is not so good yet). But the day will come.......

Meanwhile, I am planning to use my new Iphone 12 promax to shoot all my casual family outings as most of these shots are NOT for photo art but for memory sake. Plus, the post processing on the latest generation of phone cameras are incredible.
 

Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
267
23
18
54
Check out the specs of the Samsung Note 20 Ultra


I have not been following the phones sensors..are you sure it's 108mp..if those tiny sensors can pack that amount of pixels, then the fourthirds sensor can go to over 1k pixels and the FF can be over :eek: 4k. I think it's just fake 108mp..interpolation or something to that.
 

Blu-By-U

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2006
1,722
14
38
Selangor D.E.
I did. The samsung sensor is still smaller than Oly's sensor and Oly now only pack 21Mp while samsung packs 108Mp. So it can mean that this Oly and mft have still much much more room for Mp expansion.
 

Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
267
23
18
54
I thought of that too. But then, when I look at the A7R4 @ 61Mb, the 20 megapixel M43 sensor is already as dense (based on pixel per sq in).
Anyway, the Full Frame A7R4 has also reach its limits, with some reviewers noted that the noise level is slightly higher at high ISO compared to the 42mp A7R3.
So it looks like it will be challenging for M43 to increase the megapixel beyond 20mp.
 

Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
267
23
18
54
Samsung is a technique called "Pixel Binning". I am not a Tech Pro, so for those who are interested to find out more can read the article below.

Anyway, Sony and Olympus also has a function to generate high res shots (eg. Olympus EM1 mk3 can produce 80mp shots and Sony has pixel shift
to bump up the resolution to 4 times (eg. 242mp on the A7r4).

I wouldn't call it a gimmick as it really works when you try to blow the pictures up to wall posters size.
Of course the 80mp shot from a Olympus cannot match a 80mp medium or large format camera,
but it is a good solution if you only need this once in blue moon.

So how did Samsung manage to get 108Mp into that tiny phone?
 

Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
267
23
18
54
It's heartwarming to see that Olympus / JIP continue to innovate and support us,
even my very old 60mm Macro lenses get the new feature Focus Stacking :)

Focus stacking is especially great for Macro shots as there are times we want
more parts of a insect or flower to be in focus.

Birds Ai is great, as trying to spot focus on a jittery bird with surround branches is
sometimes a pain and delay us for a few seconds and caused us to miss some shots.
It is especially difficult at 600mm or more.

But I am sad Olympus did not include Birds AI on other cameras except the E-M1x.
If it is on the E-M1 mk 3, I may consider to upgrade, because I really don't like the vertical grip
to be permanently attached, as most of the time, I don't need it and prefer a smaller
camera body by removing it. Olympus / JIP, are you listening?

 

Blu-By-U

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2006
1,722
14
38
Selangor D.E.
They must have something that sets those cameras apart. Else why but the X is all features are the same across the board? I won't pay for a OMD 1.3 if everything can be found in the OMD 1.2 and i won't pay for an OMD 5.3 if it's similar to a OMD 1.2.
 

swifty

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2004
647
33
28
davophoto.wordpress.com
I thought of that too. But then, when I look at the A7R4 @ 61Mb, the 20 megapixel M43 sensor is already as dense (based on pixel per sq in).
Anyway, the Full Frame A7R4 has also reach its limits, with some reviewers noted that the noise level is slightly higher at high ISO compared to the 42mp A7R3.
So it looks like it will be challenging for M43 to increase the megapixel beyond 20mp.
Pixel density of a 20MP m43 sensor is equal to 80MP FF. So the A7R4 has less pixel density than 20MP m43 sensors.
But all this is a misnomer. Pixel density doesn't increase the noise levels of an image. It may decrease the signal levels slightly as the pixel walls still occupy some surface area but with BSI and gapless microlenses, these have been non-issues for a long time already.
The differences between A7R4 and A7R3 comes down to how the sensors have been optimised. A7R4 sensor has a larger bandwidth and the need to offload data quicker does increase electronic noise.
But the two sensors occupy the same surface area (the FF frame size) and will perform largely the same regardless of pixel count. The sensor area is the main determinant of how much signal is collected (assuming same sensor QE). Photons shot noise will be the same. Electronic read noise will differ depending on how the sensor is optimised.

WRT to smartphone sensors, the incredible pixel density are real. And generally speaking, the tech on smaller sensors are far more advance and more efficient than large sensors. It generally takes a few years before sensor tech work it's way up to larger sensors.
But all those pixels doesn't mean it is resolving anywhere near it's maximum potential. You've got diffraction rearing it's head and probably most importantly, the lenses in front of those sensors doesn't resolve anywhere near it's maximum potential.
So you can get 100+MP of data from these tiny lensor modules but you're not achieving anywhere near 100+MP of resolution.
But because these sensors are incredibly quick, you can do all sorts of things with that data plus you wouldn't want 100MP files anyways due to storage issues.
Binning is just a way of combining pixels and have been around forever. Nikon's D1X was a binned sensor from 2001.
A 4:1 bin from a 108MP Bayer sensor gets you 27MP images but each pixel now has all the RGB colour information compared to just a regular 27MP Bayer sensor where colour information is interpolated from its neighbour pixels. I think they experiment with various different CFA's such as quad-Bayer rather than regular Bayer.
They can do all sorts of creative methods to improve the final image by starting off with far more sampling (large pixel count) and because the data offload are so quick and you've powerful CPU's working on those data, there's not really any lag penalty and creates better final images of a far more reasonable (for storage) resolution.

In terms of how the results look, forget resolution for a moment and think about magnification.
The main reason larger sensors produce better results when displaying or printing large is because they are magnified much less. If you don't magnify the results much (eg. displaying on a phone or small prints) you just can't see the difference.
When you do magnify the image for display, then resolution starts to matter but this is relative to the amount of magnification.
Your viewing distance is also a factor because how close you view an image/photo is similar to how much you magnify the image. That's why you can have iphone billboard sized images that look just fine as long as they're on a billboard which means you're viewing it from far away.
 

swifty

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2004
647
33
28
davophoto.wordpress.com
They must have something that sets those cameras apart. Else why but the X is all features are the same across the board? I won't pay for a OMD 1.3 if everything can be found in the OMD 1.2 and i won't pay for an OMD 5.3 if it's similar to a OMD 1.2.
X has dual CPU's. The larger body may also have better thermals.
 

ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
3,683
58
48
sing
Very old Fuji X-T2 has had focus stacking since May 2018. 2nd hand ones can be had for relatively low price.
No idea why JIP/OM Digital Solutions are being tight fisted about a firmware update in 2020.
This is old hat. This is not First In The World achievement or ground breaking advancement.
Others have had it for YEARS.

Well that may explain why the Olympus camera division was divested.
This kind of policy alienates your most loyal customers.
Hmm.... they may make you PAY for the firmware upgrade - to raise money to achieve profitability in 1 year.
It is not a new attitude. Panasonic makes you pay for some upgrades.
 

Blu-By-U

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2006
1,722
14
38
Selangor D.E.
Oh dear, Looks like I got to sell my Oly for a Fuji if I want stacking and I need to hunt for a discontinues Casio for the pre capture. I also need to buy a Sony for the small body. Now How can I merge all 3 together??