Why do alot of sellers think that getting a full frame camera is an upgrade?


loath

New Member
Mar 10, 2009
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#1
I have been in Clubsnap for nearly six years. I have sold and bought cameras, lenses and accessories. I believe Clubsnap has become the most popular forum for personal classified for buying and selling of photography products, at least in Singapore. The reason why this post is under Nikon is because I have been using Nikon for some time now. To be fair, I do not look up other classified so my comment is based on Nikon Buying/Selling forum only.
Again, this is my personal feedback and comments. It does not in any way condemning a specific or any direct person in Clubsnap. For all this time, I have noticed that whenever a seller is selling their product, the reason for selling or as they put it RFS is typically “upgrading to Full Frame”. This is sad..very very sad. To believe that is like believing you’re upgrading from a 4 room old HDB unit to a 5 room BTO in Punggol. I think this is the notion that a lot of Singaporeans have, as always, either by peer pressure or just looking at his/her friend’s Full Frame camera. Or worst, thinking that Full Frame means that “I am a pro, unlike others with normal camera” attitude.
Many western professionals are using crop sensors for their work. Why? Because they are not obsessed with “upgrading”. Practicality and artistry is more important to them than having a Full Frame camera. Checkout YouTube or other online media. You’d be amazed at the pictures taken by them. And everybody knows the first two commandments of photography-it’s always the lens and the photographer. Some believe that Full Frame cameras gives better ISO , so as picture quality. NEWSFLASH!It’s always the lens and you. Depth of field, sorry, lens again. There was a comparison made in YouTube that proves the ISO of Nikon D7200 is less noisy that Canon 6D. Mirror less shoots faster than any other DSLR cameras nowadays. The Fuji X-T1 and Samsung N1 shoots 11 and 15 fps respectively. Even Canon 7D M2 shoots at 10. I have seen photos taken with the D7200 and it blows me away. Personally I cannot tell the difference between D7200 and D750. In fact, D7200 comes out sharper with better colours and detail. So please, stop saying it is an upgrade. If you know what you need, be it a pro shooter or an avid hobbyist, it really does not matter. It’s you, not the camera. A lot will disagree but others may find some truth.
 

mayhemics

New Member
Apr 28, 2009
763
2
0
#2
I have been in Clubsnap for nearly six years. I have sold and bought cameras, lenses and accessories. I believe Clubsnap has become the most popular forum for personal classified for buying and selling of photography products, at least in Singapore. The reason why this post is under Nikon is because I have been using Nikon for some time now. To be fair, I do not look up other classified so my comment is based on Nikon Buying/Selling forum only.
Again, this is my personal feedback and comments. It does not in any way condemning a specific or any direct person in Clubsnap. For all this time, I have noticed that whenever a seller is selling their product, the reason for selling or as they put it RFS is typically “upgrading to Full Frame”. This is sad..very very sad. To believe that is like believing you’re upgrading from a 4 room old HDB unit to a 5 room BTO in Punggol. I think this is the notion that a lot of Singaporeans have, as always, either by peer pressure or just looking at his/her friend’s Full Frame camera. Or worst, thinking that Full Frame means that “I am a pro, unlike others with normal camera” attitude.
Many western professionals are using crop sensors for their work. Why? Because they are not obsessed with “upgrading”. Practicality and artistry is more important to them than having a Full Frame camera. Checkout YouTube or other online media. You’d be amazed at the pictures taken by them. And everybody knows the first two commandments of photography-it’s always the lens and the photographer. Some believe that Full Frame cameras gives better ISO , so as picture quality. NEWSFLASH!It’s always the lens and you. Depth of field, sorry, lens again. There was a comparison made in YouTube that proves the ISO of Nikon D7200 is less noisy that Canon 6D. Mirror less shoots faster than any other DSLR cameras nowadays. The Fuji X-T1 and Samsung N1 shoots 11 and 15 fps respectively. Even Canon 7D M2 shoots at 10. I have seen photos taken with the D7200 and it blows me away. Personally I cannot tell the difference between D7200 and D750. In fact, D7200 comes out sharper with better colours and detail. So please, stop saying it is an upgrade. If you know what you need, be it a pro shooter or an avid hobbyist, it really does not matter. It’s you, not the camera. A lot will disagree but others may find some truth.
Yes, of course the camera does not matter. Use an iphone to shoot an aurora timelapse. Use an iphone to shoot professional sports with 20x digital zoom. The simple truth is: it is possible to acquire good camera skills with some learning and practice, but it is impossible to overcome certain inherent limitations with small sensors for certain types of situations.
 

catchlights

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 27, 2004
21,903
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Punggol, Singapore
www.foto-u.com
#3
that is noting new and it is happens in any fields and all the time, you can't change their mind set, so just let it be.

that is no point of telling people things that they don't want to hear or don't believe, and that is noting concerning about you, really.

what is the best thing you can do is do like what the Ang Moh photographers do, show the world what you can produce with your camera.

we photographers also say "picture tell a thousand words", so just let the pictures do the talking.
 

loath

New Member
Mar 10, 2009
368
1
0
#4
weird... can't seem to find anywhere that i compared full frame camera with an iphone.
 

loath

New Member
Mar 10, 2009
368
1
0
#5
that is noting new and it is happens in any fields and all the time, you can't change their mind set, so just let it be.

that is no point of telling people things that they don't want to hear or don't believe, and that is noting concerning about you, really.

what is the best thing you can do is do like what the Ang Moh photographers do, show the world what you can produce with your camera.

we photographers also say "picture tell a thousand words", so just let the pictures do the talking.
agreed.
 

vaxvms

Senior Member
Dec 21, 2005
679
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16
BEHIND YOU!!!!!!
#7
must boost up local economy mah

so pls sell and upgrade and sell and buy until u are satisfied :)
 

Jan 6, 2003
214
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Visit site
#8
Apart from the FF vs (sub FF) camps, there is also the SLR vs mirrorless camp. There are numerous Youtube channels and web reviews that proclaim the doom for ...
The "Why Pro switch over from N and C to S/F" type videos are quite rampant. I find that many of these views are quite one sided (need a lot of fast talking to convince viewers).
The words "working pros" seems to carrying a lot of weight in these kinds of review/opinions.

I am not a pro or even a serious enthusiast, but I suspect real pros will shoot with whatever format, for a job, that allow them to turn in a profit; this renders the argument "XYZ pro photographers now shoots with ABC equipment and you should too" a moot point.
 

daredevil123

Moderator
Staff member
Oct 25, 2005
21,660
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lil red dot
#9
All I can say is, use the right tool for the job.

If shooting landscape, crop will work well. but FF with high megapixel will yield a lot more details, simply because there is more pixels, and a larger sensor gives more real estate per pixel.

If shooting portraits FF gives shallower DoF. But in a studio it doesn't matter because we control all the lighting.

If shooting products or macro, crop cameras actually is better because it gives you deeper DoF.

Shooting in low light, FF has the advantage in high ISO performance, every bit helps.

High end FF is good for sports and birding, to maintain high shutter speed with high ISO, as well as fast continuous shooting.

So in the end, it all about what you want to achieve and how you want to execute and achieve it that matters. That is why people say it is the photograper not the gear. It simply means the photographer is a thinking photographer, and knows when to use what to get the result he/she wants. Which is also why many studios stock cams of many formats, from crop to FF to MF.
 

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overworked

Senior Member
May 6, 2010
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#10
Hi

If someone thinks by going FF is a upgrade for him/her, who is to say it is NOT? Upgrade does not mean better picture, upgrade to diff people means diff things. So people sell to upgrade, they can take shitty pic with the upgraded camera, so what? Its their money, they earn it, inherit it, stole it or whatever but it is theirs to use.

Not too sure what is the purpose of the post except ur view that the man and the lens(?) is what matters. I agree with u completely and if someone upgrade hardware and then motivates him/her to upgrade their skills, then why not?

Happy can liao.
 

#12
i lost TS half way through the post.

Let's put the "output" of images from the camera aside for now. FF cameras are generally more expensive. FF cameras allows the full utilization of wider lens (which usually are more expensive). In terms of pricing, it is considered an upgrade? in terms of functionality, considered an upgrade?

Getting an Altis after you've a Vios. Getting a Civic after you've a City. Upgrade? does it drive way better when all you do is drive in town? (not very convincing metaphor but hope you get my drift)

some pros stay with cropped sensors to reach further with their zooms. most working photographers I know or worked with or commissioned would have at least two formats of camera.

anyway, as most would say.... the seller or buyer is happy... then can liao... :)
 

Octarine

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Staff member
Jan 3, 2008
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Pasir Ris
#13
TS: you put so many disclaimers around your posting, all coming down to "it's only a personal opinion" when the comment "upgrade to FF" is nothing more than the opinion of the seller. Whether you share this opinion or not does not matter at all :) But yeah, there are those days when we have to let off some steam about what bugs us. Good Kopitiam stuff ;)
 

daredevil123

Moderator
Staff member
Oct 25, 2005
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lil red dot
#14
BTW, this has nothing to do with Nikon. Thread moved to General photography talk.
 

Edwin Francis

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2006
883
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18
www.sgwriter.com
#15
I think you are reading too much into it. Why do they say 'upgrade'? Probably because of the price :bsmilie:
And, just maybe, "I'm not selling because I need money, so don't come and lowball me."

A full-frame Nikon prob has some advantages over an DX Nikon of the same generation. But you're right, it's not as much as many seem to think. I'm 'upgrading' from APS-C to m43 right now :)
 

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Oct 12, 2004
457
5
18
#16
Exactly what others responding have said.
If said photographer is 'upgrading' to FF, the comment is referencing themselves only. Your post however contains a lot of very broad generalisations and assertions.
You couldn't possibly know how the seller uses his/her equipment so how can you say he/she is/isn't upgrading?
Even in your analogy of moving to a different HDB, how can you say that is/isn't an upgrade based on the personal needs of the family that is moving.
 

soeypixels

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2007
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#18
i met a couple who wanted me shoot their AD + photobooth services

and groom was a hobbyist and he wanted a FF camera in the photobooth :bsmilie:

just saying
 

DSolZ

New Member
Mar 6, 2010
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#20
[video=youtube_share;PHYidejT3KY]http://youtu.be/PHYidejT3KY[/video]

Can't resist posting this since we are on this topic :)
Like the way he put it.... It is the moron behind the camera that matters
 

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