WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[one eye jack]

All camera colours lie, so does your editing software. What is REAL colour. Colour science and marketing bs. Also see part 2. What about your monitor?

Pleasing colour = not real colour!

 

[one eye jack]

Let's settle the sensor size issue for good...haha. Part 1.

The equivalency advocates argues their case to be fairer.
Olympus colours have special mention but overall size matters.
Doubling of megapixels does not give advantage. Ultimately, speed of use, quality and costs make compromises in the end. It really depends what is the end goal or purpose to use one format for another. Hope this brings to an end to the argument or debate about sensor size. Part 2.

 

[ricohflex]

An old video dated 26 Jan 2022. Things have changed since then. JCristina may give an update by Jan 2023.
See what he says about OMDS from 12.33 to 14.20 of the video.

 

[one eye jack]

An old video dated 26 Jan 2022. Things have changed since then. JCristina may give an update by Jan 2023.
See what he says about OMDS from 12.33 to 14.20 of the video.

Ricohflex, you keep predicting the demise of OMDS but you know what, the more you persist the more OMDS will endure. Simply from my experience and knowledge it's only your fantasy but to be fair everybody gets to have their fantasy fulfilled if he puts in the work of persistence.

Coming back to J Cristina he reports the Japanese business camera findings that seemingly paint a bleak picture of the camera industry. He now has a change of heart from saying smartphones had devoured the camera to saying the smartphone suck at photo quality if it's going to be printed to a reasonable size, see @17:34.

He further said Nikon was not even ranked at all and suggested that Nikon may have a chance if they get their act straightened out. He pointed out that for 3 to 4 years the buzz has been about mirrorless but also make the case for DSLR cameras saying there is a place in photography. More specifically he makes a case for the point n shoot camera because of the smartphone. He cited cases like canon M50, Nikon d850 that made good sales.

Photo consumers want instant gratification so point n shoot have a place citing the camera companies that used to dominate this segment . But like I said any company must innovate or die. J Cristina believes Japanese companies can revive the photo business that have been down by 50% . But in my opinion if these companies keep doing or have a fixed mindset of they know the business ,the result will be a rude awakening that business survives by offering what people want , not what they think people should want. It's the lack of imagination or creativity that is the problem and not willing to take risks.

Here is example of ambition running ahead of good judgement and research about the facts before this young Singaporean bought his dream cinema camera when he should have stuck with his amateurish mirrorless camera. The camera in question is canon C500 mark 1. It can only record 4k with external recorder but he did not research enough but plunged ahead with the purchase , pre-owned of course that used to cost 10 times what he paid then. The external recorder if available did not support the 4k at the needed frame rate and he sold it 3 months later. He said he will try again to realise his dream of being as successful as other YouTubers. Good luck to him.

Btw he should have read this and chose a different model.

Canon C500 – Still Worth It? 5 Things I’ve Learnt

4 years ago, the Canon C500 was announced as a top level Cinema Camera. What value does it have in today’s market? Here’s a few thing I’ve found out.

www.cined.com

 

[one eye jack]

This is for Ricohflex, for his much vaunted fullframe sensor, an ISO comparison of the Canon 5d series versus 45 megapixel Canon R5 mirrorless flagship camera. Nothing much has changed in terms of progress in technology... horrors. Please understand I'm not against fullframe...but look at photography in perspective. You can make photographs with just about any type of camera

 

[one eye jack]

Update: iPhone14 pro still cannot beat a 13 year old Lumix GF1!

 

[one eye jack]

Thread views just past 38k.
Top 10 digital cameras in Japan for August 2022. This should bring a smile to Ricohflex and feeling vindicated. But I feel it's due to marketing and people wanting new toys but there are merits or advantages to fullframe.

Majority of spots go to fullframe cameras, no fujifilm, no Panasonic or Pentax. Yes price is main determinator of buyers choice but it still a long way to go before it reaches point and shoot territory. That said Sony is still king of mirrorless , leaving canon and Nikon vying for 2nd. place. Surprise, surprise, the 2nd. spot goes to canon R10, an entry level apsc sensor which goes to show buyers are price sensitive but with coming introduction of canon R100 which costs cheaper who knows. Does that mean m43 OMDS is doomed, I think not, the format has entrenched itself to be a portable and high image quality ( relatively ) format.

 

[one eye jack]

Another educational video. The truth about sensor formats. Right tool for the right job, not what many armchair know it all think. Size matters when it matters.

Can you tell the difference between medium format and apsc on social media, that's what this Youtuber try to convince us but you all know why so I will end it here. Keep it to yourself..sssssshhh.

 

[one eye jack]

3 days ago.
Professional photographer will use smartphone if it can do better bokeh than DSLR or mirrorless camera.
Phone is good for the masses but not for commercial requirements.
OMDS is collaborating with other partners so hopefully a breakthrough and innovation come about.

 

[one eye jack]

The merits of micro four thirds camera.

 

[ricohflex]

Before any knee jerk reaction that { This is not relevant to thread topic).
Listen to what he says from 2.56 to 3.57 which is very relevant to Olympus and OMDS.

Although he is describing GFX100S.
In the rest of the video basically he is discussing the balance among Price, Technical Prowess, Sensor Size and Image Quality that Fuji is trying to fix.
That too, is relevant to M43 in general. Because of what competitors can offer.

The mirrorless OM-1 is probably interesting to collectors. Because it is the LAST Olympus branded camera.

 

[one eye jack]

Before any knee jerk reaction that { This is not relevant to thread topic).
Listen to what he says from 2.56 to 3.57 which is very relevant to Olympus and OMDS.

Although he is describing GFX100S.
In the rest of the video basically he is discussing the balance among Price, Technical Prowess, Sensor Size and Image Quality that Fuji is trying to fix.
That too, is relevant to M43 in general. Because of what competitors can offer.

The mirrorless OM-1 is probably interesting to collectors. Because it is the LAST Olympus branded camera.

As usual Ricohflex you take every opportunity to dismiss m43 format. This armchair Youtuber is entitled to his opinion just like you, however I do not put any weight on his opinions when he is not a working professional photographer which I linked above. It is precisely why he explained the rationale to use m43 for a particular shoot when fullframe is inappropriate to do the task. He acknowledged image quality wise m43 is advantageous when fullframe is not needed in that particular shoot as weight, size and convenience are and is good enough. Right tool for the right job.

Edit: This thread has passed 39k views.

 

[one eye jack]

Let's revisit the fullframe Vs other smaller formats. Unless you are earning a living out of photography, most hobbyists can just as be happy with the smaller format sensors. So far what Ricohflex had predicted about fullframe dropping in price has not actually happened with only canon offering canon R and RP which did not satisfy the demands of sports/action photographers. Who are forced to use the more expensive mirrorless cameras in the lineup.

Ultimately it is the photo output that matters and all due to the photographer, sure gear matters but if one has the skills it can go a long way. I will not pitcha lobang on what fullframe can do as I had gotten an old one to try... hint, ala Fujifilm look...haha. Sure you can adjust the colour profile of any camera or is it?

 

[Pitachu]

It has been 2 years since OMDS has taken over from Olympus.
Some soothsayers say JIP may close OMDS down after 1 year but this did not happened.
In fact, JIP have not only continue OMDS, but also starting to expand its product lines.

This shows that OMDS Branding has gain traction and do not need to use the Olympus logo anymore.
For them to change logo on entire line of Imaging products (Cameras, Lenses, Binoculars), it means that
most of the stock are being sold and they are going to manufacture more with the new logo to replenish the stock.

This is good news for Current and Potential M43 users. The future is looks good.
OMDS has also hinted another 3 models to be released soon.
OM-1 Junior
OM-1X (EM-1x mk2 ?)
Pen-F

OM Digital Solutions is removing the Olympus name from its entire product portfolio

OM Digital Solutions, the company responsible for camera and optic products bearing the Olympus brand name, has announced it’s transitioning to using ‘OM System’ in the naming of all of its cameras, lenses, binoculars and accessories.

www.dpreview.com

 

[one eye jack]

My 2 cents of the reality of the photography business is that it is largely driven by industrial uses like machine vision, medical, autonomous vehicles and lastly smartphone and photography in general.

There are already industrial sensors that are capable of hundreds of frames rate and low light sensitivity but it rarely follow that the technology will trickle down to photography enthusiasts dreams. Simply that research efforts go to areas of potential profit and demand.

From the linked report, there are smartphone image sensors that can outperform traditional photography sensors where demand is greatest. You may ask why smartphone technology are not applied to normal photo camera sensors. Well simply because the smartphone business is significant.

Then there are only a small number of image sensor manufacturers . ( From the linked article. )

Current industry key players include Sony Group (Japan), Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. (Japan), OMNIVISION (US), STMicroelectronics N.V. (Switzerland), GalaxyCore Shanghai Limited Corporation (China), ON Semiconductor Corporation (US), Panasonic Holdings Corporation (Japan), Canon Inc. (Japan), SK hynix Inc. (South Korea), and PixArt Imaging Inc. (Taiwan).

As you can see Sony and Canon are the Japanese players , panasonic is more hardware based so the other smaller camera companies like Nikon, Panasonic, OMDS , Pentax and sigma are dependent on Sony where as canon can design their own sensors and image processors. In other words the others are just step sisters using hand me down sensors..ouch!

For micro four thirds, like fullframe there is only so much space or real estate of the sensor size to put image sensors in the form of photo diodes. Smartphone use bining technology ,that is although the pixels are small they are combined to form larger pixels in order to receive more light .See article for details. In other words a particular size camera format is limited by physics. From model to model the noise performance does not improve but what improves is the software processing of noise by the image processor.

My opinion is that OMDS should put more effort in this noise processing area so that even at high ISO the smaller m43 sensor image quality can do better than the larger sensors. Only this can ensure m43 relevance in the photography space. Already there are 3rd. party noise processing software that make high ISO image look acceptable so now the trick is putting into the camera but if memory space or processor power is insufficient then OMDS should provide this help in it's own photo editing software. Hope they read this. Only then will photographers accept m43 format as workable .

Taking a Closer Look at the Global Image Sensor Market

AZoSensors takes a deep dive into how image sensors are currently being used, where research and development are focused, what the market looks like, and how the sector may evolve into the future.

www.azosensors.com

The noise performance of om1 is similar to em1 mk3 accept in the distribution of noise in the image which is due to the improved processor meaning the software processing. That's why OMDS must make progress in this critical area of image processing to remain in the game.

 

[ricohflex]

Except for those with sunken costs and already deeply invested in M43. New buyers have many alternatives.
A camera brand/model cannot be considered in isolation.
What competitors can offer is significant and do affect the buying decision.

Here are some comparisons.
Fuji XT5 vs OM System OM-5

OM System OM-5 vs Canon R6 II

What we individually say here is not going to change how things turn out. We are just kibitzers.
In the bigger scheme of things, on a world wide scale, the life or death of a camera brand/model will be decided by the hundreds of millions of camera buyers.
They will vote with their wallet.

The losers will have nearly zero Ø market share.
It will eventually be revealed. No company can hide this.
Even if they employ an army of ambassadors and so-called pros to tell stories of how great the camera brand/model is.

 

[JW73]

Some one compares a top resolution FF vs m43…

 

[Pitachu]

The List Price for OM-5 is US$1199
The List Price for Fuji XT5 is US$1699
The B&H Price for Canon R6 ii is US@2799

@ricohflex why are you comparing cameras in different price category?
And the Canon and Fuji XT5 is quite a lot heavier than the OM-5, body and lenses.

Most EM5 users (and probably OM-5 users) we choose this model mainly because of size, weight and price!

If price & weight is not the issue, then even for a fervent Olympus supporter like me, would choose the Sony A7R5 instead of a M43.

Buyers decision is based on what they want and need. @ricohflex if resolution and dynamic range is what you need, by all means go for those models.

If Canon, Fujifilm or even Sony is able to come up with a camera that has the same capabilities as their latest model but same size and weight (body and lenses add together), I will buy it. Size and Weight is my first priority as I carry my gears for 8 hrs a day.

So stop harping on how good other brands are (when their body and lenses are much bigger). Otherwise, @ricohflex you are like those annoying saleperson in Sim LIm Sq last time trying to sell a big SLRs to tourists carrying compact cameras

Except for those with sunken costs and already deeply invested in M43. New buyers have many alternatives.
A camera brand/model cannot be considered in isolation.
What competitors can offer is significant and do affect the buying decision.

Here are some comparisons.
Fuji XT5 vs OM System OM-5

OM System OM-5 vs Canon R6 II

What we individually say here is not going to change how things turn out. We are just kibitzers.
In the bigger scheme of things, on a world wide scale, the life or death of a camera brand/model will be decided by the hundreds of millions of camera buyers.
They will vote with their wallet.

The losers will have nearly zero Ø market share.
It will eventually be revealed. No company can hide this.
Even if they employ an army of ambassadors and so-called pros to tell stories of how great the camera brand/model is.

 

[one eye jack]

PART 1.

Dear Ricohflex , boys and girls, let me lau ah pek take you on a tour of digital image technology as it is essential to be aware of for what is happening in the digital photography scene now. For Ricohflex, his hypothesis that people make buying decisions based on " sunken costs" is flawed at best as the other factors with regards to photography is ignored .

Let me explain, before the current type of CMOS image sensor ( complementary metal oxide semiconductor) now in use, the first consumer digital sensor was the ccd ( charged coupled device ) pioneered by Kodak making use of a semiconductor capacitor to hold the charge from the light receiving photodiode. It's costly to make and is mostly used for industrial applications where a high quality image is desired. Of course the image from ccd is beautiful almost filmlike if it is described.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge-coupled_device

Because of costs the camera industry turn to CMOS sensor as it cheaper to make but because the sensor data transfer is read line by line it has what is known as rolling shutter distortion where an object is distorted like pulled , stretched or curved. If an object or subject is static or non moving then the problem is not obvious but when it comes to sports/action scenes then it is a big problem. Hence video shooters and YouTubers always complain of rolling shutter when they are moving or walking shooting themselves . CCD sensor do not have this problem because they use a global shutter
lIke film camera the film/ digital sensor is a exposed all at once.

This is why shooting sports and action has rolling shutter problem when using electronic shutter where the frame rate is higher which is advantageous compared to a mechanical shutter where top speed is 12 - 20 frames/ sec. compared to 40 frames of the new canon R6 MK2. There is now talk of incorporating a global shutter to CMOS sensor to solve this problem.

The noise problem of CMOS sensor has remained the same as the physics of semiconductor material is technically constant. So from 1st. generation to present , what improved is the noise processing of the image but the more noise processing is increased essentially the details are smoothed over so there is a kind of smearing of the details , for small details or small areas in the image vis-a-vie the whole sensor area , it is not obvious if you don't pixel peep. One thing to note is digital noise is colour noise ( chromatic aberration ) where it is objectional to the eye where as film "noise" is technically the light sensitive silver halide grain used in film emulsion to coat the film surface which is monochromatic and just look like a printed image on paper,
just grainy.

In fact the image quality of a 1st. generation CMOS sensor like a canon 5d MK1 at 12mp compared to 30mp 5d MK4 is not vastly different but of course if you are doing paid work then the newer model is better to use.
Even then this young man noted that using 2 big dlsr is heavy!

In low light, newer sensors have better noise processing that's all as the semiconductor material physics is the same meaning as the iso is increased ( signal electronically amplified compared to bigger film grain to make it more light sensitive ) image quality wise, you cannot really distinguish between the old and new sensor but there is that "magic" of the 1st. gen sensor which I have gotten for that..hehe.
Ssssh keep it to yourself or price will go up!

 

[one eye jack]

Part 2

Recently Sony and Canon did their public launch of their latest refresh version of their Sony a7mk4 and canon R6 respectively. Canon spent much more flying YouTubers to a location all expenses paid to test out the canon R6 MK2 . While Sony a7 Mk5 is impressive the canon R6 mk2 is cheaper at 24mp Vs 61 mp a7 Mk5. Canon is aggressively out marketing Sony for market share and winning over the professionals . I must say canon present a very attractive alternative for sports/action camera despite preventing 3rd. party lenses which may hinder their business goals.

While it is good to have all this automated technology of better autofocus where does the photographer figure in photography, if everything is taken care of photo wise, does the hardware or tools or AI take the photographer out of the equation. What do photographers get out of photography. Regardless of the technology or tools , people apparently are able to produce beautiful and moving photos with old or new cameras. Camera companies try to entice you with high resolution and fast cameras but the essential ingredients to make a good photograph still lies with the photographer. Here are lessons that someone has revealed from sports/action and wildlife competition. No matter if most people shoot portraits generally , it's the personality of the photographer that count, which category are you? Food for thought.