What culture is it here??!!

[psychobiologist]

one doesnt need to be a good cook/chef to be able to comment on how food tastes... whether this is too oily.. not fragrant enough.. etc. its all about having tasted more, and having the ability to discern. at least before i pay for food i'll look at how it looks coming out of the store, better than buying the food w/o looking and later.. eek!! not nice!

same analogy not exactly a payment issue actually, the transaction is out of the point at this moment because the issue here is about people giving critiques being non-snappers or not snapping much. might not have a lot of experience in the technicalities, but may have an artistic/sharp eye.

if you ever visit the met museum in ny or the moma (modern art) the place is filled with appreciators and critics, some will go up to a painting and go.. look at the colors.. so vibrant!!.. and another one will be.. hey.. this body part is.. wrong and should be done some other way etc.. can they paint? or can they even afford a million dollar painting? they dont have to, after all paintings are meant to portray the original artist's intent etc to the general public, or the viewer, so each viewer can have his or her comments without changing the artist's intent.

like van gogh's starry night? i cant paint i cant afford it either, but from the painting, i could tell that in the darkness, most houses are lit but there is no light in the church. the posture of the willow tree says a lot about his faith in religion and stuff at that point of time. i see, i analyse, and perhaps if i could, i might critique. i see what the artist wants to tell me. and when pictures are viewed in galleries, i try to see the photographer's intent.

i believing in taking things with a pinch of salt, many unique photographers after a while have developed their own styles, colors, effects, and this is although not easily appreciated by all, still have a proportion of viewers who will enjoy it. the worst is being a styleless/formless photographer, you dont create for yourself an identity, just the same works that anyone with the same cam can do at the right time and right place.

 

[eng_keow]

I think it is not culture here we are talking about. In this community, we come from all walks of life with all sorts of mentality and thinking. Some are diplomatic whilst others are forthright and blunt. Both think that they are doing a service in this not-too-small community but is this really so?

To the Kreetig: what is your purpose in kreteesizing? To sincerely want to help the guy who posted or just to give your 2cents worth of opinion. I think there are both. So when we get kreteexisms, let see where this guy is coming from. Accept and reject accordingly.

To the Kreteesized: Let go, let loose. Easy come, easy go. I think that it hurts most when our EGOS are hit hard. When we feel that we have taken the photograph of our life and it gets torn down to smittereens, we freak out.

I don't get much comment when I post. Some may feel upset about it. I always try to think on the brighter side: since not many comments, my pic probably is not that good but not that bad either, so nothing much to comment despite a high hit rate.

We can't change how people think and do but we can surely change how we react to them, right?

 

[crimson1d]

Like ortega mentioned, critics don't need to show their work to show that they know their stuff. Critiques in my own view are just personal views on how they visualised the work as an "idealistic" work if they have the opportunity to shoot it. It is not easy to give a very constructive critique in the first place. It is itself an art form, carefully constructed and lot's of foundation to hold your ground, it will proof very useful to both viewers and the artists.

Ortega also right about a food critique don' have to know how to cook to be a food critique. You don't have to be a film critique to critic on a film. Have you seen an art critic shows their work? or a book critique publishing their own novels or book? There's a lot of critics criticizing different occupations but they themselves never practice that particular occupation.

We will never know if some CSers here would criticise with a good intention which came from a good place because sometimes we ourselves see it as an insult or a personal grudge. The problem only lies on ourselves with how we view things and view on other people words.

 

[garou12]

Nikontiger, you asked what kind of culture is it here...well here's my 2cents and everyone i beg your pardon if this seems like a rant but i think it needs to be said. Its not meant to be an attack on anyone in particular just a statement of what the general environment looks like to me.

This is a culture that's more concerned with materialism: That thinking that having the best toys automatically makes them the best. Buying the best gear and bragging about it just shows that you're materialistic and insecure. It doesn't make you better than everyone else. The best pros out there don't even use some of the high end equipment that's on sale. They have a specific gear box that they stick with for years on end. The thing that makes them great is that they live by 3 creedos:
1. Learn your gear
2. plan your shoot in advance
3. don't be afraid to experiement.

Sometimes having limited gear in my mind is better because it forces you to be more creative and imaginative. Because let's face it photography though very technical in nature is also a very creative field. Technical expertise only gets you so far in an art form. Creativity is what makes you stand out.

Many people take for granted that they can just show up to a shoot and come up with things on the fly. Planning will make the a huge difference. Any pros who aren't based here will tell you this. I suggest you read the magazine Inside Photography to get a feeling for this. The mag isn't circulated here but they have a website you can visit. Google it.

Another thing that everyone here seems to be concerned with is credentials. I think we sometimes forget that the piece of paper only goes so far. What counts the most is experience and knowledge. Anyone can go out and print a cert and claim that they have cred but are unable to back that up when the time comes. What matters is the quality of their output. Stop complaining that some people are vicious with their criticism. By listening to them and challenging them, you're giving them credit regardless if you meant to do so or not. Just ignore them. Also remember that some people are just plain jack@$$es even if they are credible. I think people often don't realize that they should treat other people the way they themselves want to be treated. so its easy to tear down other people. The best people are the ones who remember that and retain an air of humility about them and you can tell that from the way they present themselves and their pov.

That's the end of my rant. Thank you for your patience and i hope i didn't cheese anyone off too badly.

 

[IceMocha]

If you see photography as an art, credibility is less relevant.

Well said. I'm very new to this forum and I may be one of those that NikonTiger described as never post but critique and comment.

A movie critic need not be an award winning film-maker. A food critic need not be a great chef.

A movie is made for the masses and food is cooked for the masses.

Photography is an art and the audience are the masses. A man on the street who looked at any photo may not make any verbal critic, but judgement (critic) is already made in their mind.

A photography forum's gallery provide us the platform to gather pre-view critique before showing our photos to the masses. If any photographer only want purely technical and professional critique, he/she should state it in their post.

Think about it, many photography competitions are voted by the public now and they do not understand the technical aspect of photography. They like it or they don't. I believe a good photographer want both technical & general comments on their art, unless you view photography as a technical reproduction and not an art.

 

[IceMocha]

Don't have to reinvent the wheel, learn from other's mistakes, that's what I'd rather do

You wrote the above, but your signature is "Break away from the norm, and capture your vision, not just photographs!!"

I cannot imagine a person who do not want to "reinvent the wheel" to "break away from the norm". :bigeyes:

A visionary always want to do things in a different ways.

 

[garou12]

You wrote the above, but your signature is "Break away from the norm, and capture your vision, not just photographs!!"

I cannot imagine a person who do not want to "reinvent the wheel" to "break away from the norm". :bigeyes:

A visionary always want to do things in a different ways.

hehe good one :bsmilie:

 

[Michael]

this is my personal view and not the view of CS and/or other CSers

actually the critique giver does not need to show you his caperbility in order to critique
since it takes some effort to actually give a good critique, you should be able to read
and try to see from another point of view, then decide for yourself if their views are
credible or not.

i subscribe this and would like to add that being able to give a good critique does not require that you are able to shoot good photos... it just means that you have the eye and technical understanding to interpret a photo.
in the same way sports coaches are able to train athletes who are much better than them...

 

[waileong]

1. There is a difference between incisive and insulting, harsh and humiliating. If you can't take the former, don't post. If you get hit by the latter, fight back and tell the mods-- there is a list of ex-CS-ers who have been warned/banned because they had no sense of etiquette.

2. There is very little "critique" in CS because to give a real critique takes way too much effort and experience/expertise which are beyond most CS-ers. Not everyone is interested in helping you to develop into a better photographer.

3. There are tons of "comments" in CS because it's far easier to do comments than critiques. There are different levels of comments, ranging from superficial ("over-PSed") to profound. You need to recognise and absorb comments for what they are.

4. No one owes you good comments, explanations, encouragement, pity, help, nurturing, etc. especially if your photos are not good. If you are easily hurt or discouraged, don't post.

5. When you receive a "comment", decide if it's valid. If it's not, ignore it. If it is, acknowledge it and don't whine. Trying to justify your bad photos is pointless. Who cares if your photo is not sharp because you had too much coffee or just finished your IPPT? If your photo isn't sharp when it appears you clearly intended it to be sharp, no amount of explanation is going to make people like it, and no amount of excuses can invalidate the comment.

6. There is no requirement for anyone to post photos to convince others that he's qualified to post "comments". Frankly, a person's comments, over time, will show a trend and establish his credibility or otherwise. If his comments have always been spot-on, then you know you can trust him, regardless of what he thinks of your photos. If his comments have always been absurd, why are you wasting your time reading his comments?

7. As for those who disappear from your thread after one comment, PM them if you want a response. Not everyone follows your thread, especially if there's nothing to draw them.

 

[garou12]

1. There is a difference between incisive and insulting, harsh and humiliating. If you can't take the former, don't post. If you get hit by the latter, fight back and tell the mods-- there is a list of ex-CS-ers who have been warned/banned because they had no sense of etiquette.

2. There is very little "critique" in CS because to give a real critique takes way too much effort and experience/expertise which are beyond most CS-ers. Not everyone is interested in helping you to develop into a better photographer.

3. There are tons of "comments" in CS because it's far easier to do comments than critiques. There are different levels of comments, ranging from superficial ("over-PSed") to profound. You need to recognise and absorb comments for what they are.

4. No one owes you good comments, explanations, encouragement, pity, help, nurturing, etc. If you are easily hurt or discouraged, don't post.

5. When you receive a "comment", decide if it's valid. If it's not, ignore it. If it is, acknowledge it and don't whine. Trying to justify your bad photos is pointless. Who cares if your photo is not sharp because you had too much coffee or just finished your IPPT? If your photo isn't sharp when it appears you clearly intended it to be sharp, no amount of explanation is going to make people like it, and no amount of excuses can invalidate the comment.

6. There is no requirement for anyone to post photos to convince others that he's qualified to post "comments". Frankly, a person's comments, over time, will show a trend and establish his credibility or otherwise. If his comments have always been spot-on, then you know you can trust him, regardless of what he thinks of your photos. If his comments have always been absurd, why are you wasting your time reading his comments?

#2 and 6 are very true :thumbsup:

 

[Lolrence]

Another thing to add is that I've found Clubsnap to be very similar to DA (for those who have a DA account and knows the culture there).

Once you are known to be good, any other pieces of work (good or bad) are all good. :what:
Newbies don't get much comments on their work, while 'old birds' get tons of comments/critiques.

 

[i120D]

You wrote the above, but your signature is "Break away from the norm, and capture your vision, not just photographs!!"

I cannot imagine a person who do not want to "reinvent the wheel" to "break away from the norm". :bigeyes:

A visionary always want to do things in a different ways.

I do not what others think, but personally I do not really agree on these kind of comment. :nono:

sounds too "personally" against and criticised, inviting for flame and ill-feeling, please kindly stick to the topic discussed.

 

[i120D]

Another thing to add is that I've found Clubsnap to be very similar to DA (for those who have a DA account and knows the culture there).

Once you are known to be good, any other pieces of work (good or bad) are all good. :what:
Newbies don't get much comments on their work, while 'old birds' get tons of comments/critiques.

and to some, gender (TS of questions/photos for C&C) also plays apart. :bsmilie:

dont you all think so? HONESTLY!

 

[bLight]

1. There is a difference between incisive and insulting, harsh and humiliating. If you can't take the former, don't post. If you get hit by the latter, fight back and tell the mods-- there is a list of ex-CS-ers who have been warned/banned because they had no sense of etiquette.

2. There is very little "critique" in CS because to give a real critique takes way too much effort and experience/expertise which are beyond most CS-ers. Not everyone is interested in helping you to develop into a better photographer.

3. There are tons of "comments" in CS because it's far easier to do comments than critiques. There are different levels of comments, ranging from superficial ("over-PSed") to profound. You need to recognise and absorb comments for what they are.

4. No one owes you good comments, explanations, encouragement, pity, help, nurturing, etc. especially if your photos are not good. If you are easily hurt or discouraged, don't post.

5. When you receive a "comment", decide if it's valid. If it's not, ignore it. If it is, acknowledge it and don't whine. Trying to justify your bad photos is pointless. Who cares if your photo is not sharp because you had too much coffee or just finished your IPPT? If your photo isn't sharp when it appears you clearly intended it to be sharp, no amount of explanation is going to make people like it, and no amount of excuses can invalidate the comment.

6. There is no requirement for anyone to post photos to convince others that he's qualified to post "comments". Frankly, a person's comments, over time, will show a trend and establish his credibility or otherwise. If his comments have always been spot-on, then you know you can trust him, regardless of what he thinks of your photos. If his comments have always been absurd, why are you wasting your time reading his comments?

7. As for those who disappear from your thread after one comment, PM them if you want a response. Not everyone follows your thread, especially if there's nothing to draw them.

Very well said!

 

[nikontiger]

I do not what others think, but personally I do not really agree on these kind of comment. :nono:

sounds too "personally" against and criticised, inviting for flame and ill-feeling, please kindly stick to the topic discussed.

i120D, its ok, but thanks for posting this. The fact is, I don't know many people here, being quite new, and what's interesting is that, people think that I'm stating from my own experience, but indeed I had not. Its through observing other people's posting and other people's unnecessary comments that I came to have this thought for this thread, and I have been thankful indeed, just being frank about things here.

Slowly, I begin to see some individuals here who feel that I am targeting them, but I am not, it is perhaps there own conscience speaking to them, making them feel that they have been targeted by me. So I am not surprised that Icemocha will feel that he needs to insult me back, as he has stated, that he might be one of those whom I am speaking about.

Icemocha - Even great artist like Van Gogh had to learn from others, if you know about his life, you would have known, and through such experience, one can continue to consolidate their skills to the level of a grand master to create a new thing. When I said break away from the norms, I don't mean that I am so good that I don't have to learn from others, perhaps you should direct this comment more approriately towards someone else, who's name I won't mention.

This thread has served its purpose, for self reflection, not for winning or losing. Less talks, more actions please.

 

[mutabor]

Hello my dearest fellow CSers

I've been a member here for quite a while already, but still considered new, so maybe this is the correct place to post this thread regarding the culture here in CS. After posting a few threads and joining other people's thread, I've come to notice a certain kind of behaviour that's quite accepted here in CS, which in some other places can be viewed as a very ungentlemanly and dishonorable behaviour.
.......

I just saw this thread... and I totally agree with TS point of view. CS reminds me the way many Singaporeans drive their cars - impatiently and carelessly.

I still glad that I joined CS since I made several good friends here, but photography wise, where are better forums to look for feedback and comments.

PS: and please don't flame with replies like "if you don't like it here just move on to another forum".

 

[eikin]

i120D, its ok, but thanks for posting this. The fact is, I don't know many people here, being quite new, and what's interesting is that, people think that I'm stating from my own experience, but indeed I had not. Its through observing other people's posting and other people's unnecessary comments that I came to have this thought for this thread, and I have been thankful indeed, just being frank about things here.

Slowly, I begin to see some individuals here who feel that I am targeting them, but I am not, it is perhaps there own conscience speaking to them, making them feel that they have been targeted by me. So I am not surprised that Icemocha will feel that he needs to insult me back, as he has stated, that he might be one of those whom I am speaking about.

Icemocha - Even great artist like Van Gogh had to learn from others, if you know about his life, you would have known, and through such experience, one can continue to consolidate their skills to the level of a grand master to create a new thing. When I said break away from the norms, I don't mean that I am so good that I don't have to learn from others, perhaps you should direct this comment more approriately towards someone else, who's name I won't mention.

This thread has served its purpose, for self reflection, not for winning or losing. Less talks, more actions please.

let's not be overly sensitive

some can give critique and some cannot
some can take critique and some cannot

it is a learning process
where more experience and making mistakes will make you learn faster

Don't have to reinvent the wheel, learn from other's mistakes, that's what I'd rather do

in fact i don't quite understand your reply to ortega's post, care to explain?

 

[nikontiger]

Eikin, its quite a straight forward post, which part was it that you don't understand? And I also think that your advice for being sensitive should be directed towards Icemocha And no, I'm not taking any offence here, its like a playground for me actually.

 

[eikin]

Eikin, its quite a straight forward post, which part was it that you don't understand?

what about the reinventing of the wheel?

 

[espion]

Someone once said, those who can, do; those who can't crtique; and those who can't crtique, critique the critiques.

Anyway this is an online eenvironment - you can't say everything you know and think, and you cant type/write everything you can say. So there are tons of things left unsaid, misunderstood, and to make things worst, censored.

So take it for what it is, use it for what is useful - eg buy and sell - and ignore the chaff, the ****, the fools, the sensitive egos, just like any of those you meet and have to work with in real non virtual life ...