Belle&Sebastain
Senior Member
:bsmilie:eadwine said:
Wedding techniques & Tools
- Thread starter Toxicdiver
- Start date
- Status
Why is there such a heavy emphasis on the more seasoned shooter to condense what they know to "give" this to some one who may be too unwilling to search for what he wants to learn ? You can be told what to do, (giving a man a fish) or you can learn from by doing and from what ever another person comments ( learning how to fish), so that at the end of the day you understand what you are doing and can progress independently.... or is it necessary to always have some one around to show you the way (meaning you can pick up the tools to self grow)? Put it another way, its a 2 way street, you are asking others to put food on the table, what are you putting in the pot ? Sharing is a 2 way thing.
Most of the older school photogs would be classified as by our poster as unwilling teachers but theirs is the way of doing and active learning ....not as in our schools where one is spoon feed. Knowledge acquired actively is fully understood, spoon feed training tends to blunt the ability to roll with the situation since the first reaction is "I was not taught this...." You would learn more than you planned if pushed to train under the old school system.
The biggest illusion is that by knowing the settings you can replicate the work of some shooters. It's the firmware that makes the crucial difference, using the same hardware will not make you be able to produce the same look and feel. Even getting condensed info briefing on how to do this or that, does not guarantee that you will be able to unzip the compacted info, even being shown does not mean that catch every thing the teacher knows.
Most of the older school photogs would be classified as by our poster as unwilling teachers but theirs is the way of doing and active learning ....not as in our schools where one is spoon feed. Knowledge acquired actively is fully understood, spoon feed training tends to blunt the ability to roll with the situation since the first reaction is "I was not taught this...." You would learn more than you planned if pushed to train under the old school system.
The biggest illusion is that by knowing the settings you can replicate the work of some shooters. It's the firmware that makes the crucial difference, using the same hardware will not make you be able to produce the same look and feel. Even getting condensed info briefing on how to do this or that, does not guarantee that you will be able to unzip the compacted info, even being shown does not mean that catch every thing the teacher knows.
Ok Guys, back to the meeting!!! So when can we meet? I'm more than willing to organise one (being a newbie and eager to learn from all). Perhaps we can start it out as a small and private one first? Those interested might PM me with the usual available day and time so that I can set a date where most can attend.
How about it?
Cheers
How about it?
Cheers
CYRN
Senior Member
Toxicdiver said:Hi,
A lot of the CS forums are starting with stickies with tips, techniques and toys (some will call them tools...), but not the wedding one...
Surprised ? Not really as it seems that it is a big business and not everyone is ready to share... But at CS we know better, don t we ?
So let s go people, make this thread yours and push for being a sticky (I don t gain anything from it, promise, just don t have to go back to find it every time I want to read it)
Give your equipment + the usual settings you are shooting with...
Then the little tips that make some photographers charging so much for a wedding portfolio (even if all are not worth it..:nono: ) and getting great shot for a special day !
Thanks for sharing with one newbie in wed photos among others...
to answer to your question...10D+17-40+550ex with P,S,A and occasional M when situation demands. Flash on most of the time.
For charges... do a search ard the actual market for pricing... then see which segment you want to target and price accordingly with appropriate deliverables.
jOhO
Senior Member
wah... one high praise deserves another? :bigeyes:
i'm humbled, never would have guessed u'd bother looking at my stuff!! seriously......
yes get together sounds good!
agree with the fact that we should all work together. generally i don't feel a need to "compete". there's really enough work to go around isn't there?
how come everyone's sharing equipment? hmm.. oh well here goes ahahha
d2hs, s3pro, afs17-35, afd50/1.4, afd85/1.4, sb800, LSII (not PJ)
to thread starter:
the best tip i can give you from my limited experiece is: be your own toughest critic, and greatest fan.
in other worse, whack urself hard when ur images suck, but hold your head high and proud when you do well. it's all about balance.
as for wat sux and wat's good, well, u feel it.
i'm humbled, never would have guessed u'd bother looking at my stuff!! seriously......
yes get together sounds good!
agree with the fact that we should all work together. generally i don't feel a need to "compete". there's really enough work to go around isn't there?
how come everyone's sharing equipment? hmm.. oh well here goes ahahha
d2hs, s3pro, afs17-35, afd50/1.4, afd85/1.4, sb800, LSII (not PJ)
to thread starter:
the best tip i can give you from my limited experiece is: be your own toughest critic, and greatest fan.
in other worse, whack urself hard when ur images suck, but hold your head high and proud when you do well. it's all about balance.
as for wat sux and wat's good, well, u feel it.
ckuang said:
Witness
Senior Member
pianodancer said:I got D200 and D70, but unlike you, I use D200 as the main with flash and D70 as the journalistic one. Reason is that it's kindda waste to use a lower-end model as the main cam while leaving the other one as a so-called 'backup'. But frankly, your set-up is absolutely logical. Perhaps I should try that in my next wedding shoot.
hahah my reasoning is simple....
s3pro doesnt have ittl... and for tea and table shots...the d70 is sufficient
if i were to use the d70 for the non flash shots...i tink the noise would kill me hahaha
Witness
Senior Member
hahhaa its a preference la...i guess at the end of the day, we all got our own styles of shooting and all...no rights or wrongs to it...i tink the most important in wedding photog is to be able to capture the moods and emotions of the day....
so long as who u are shooting for is ok for it and everyone's happy....all's well...
joho...nice works u got there man....need to get more inspiration from u guys here....
so long as who u are shooting for is ok for it and everyone's happy....all's well...
joho...nice works u got there man....need to get more inspiration from u guys here....
Hey, sorry, a little OT, but just to give some publicity to my fellow photogs, Eadwine [nick is Eadwine], www.plushphotography.com.sg is the only Singaporean photographer to have won and been accepted in the AGWPJA [Artistic Guild of the WPJA]. ARTTL has also placed in the WPJA clip contest. So we do have some kick a** AD photographers here.
My sincere hope is that if we all work together, Singapore can become an international powerhouse of wedding photography. Kinda like what the Australians have done in the last 10 years. Quietly working on their own little thing in their corner of the world and then exploding into the international scene in the last 5 years, and they achieved that by working together. I think we can do that here too. Anyway, i'm trying to get the whole process started so if people have suggestions to achieving this, i'm open to suggestions.
My sincere hope is that if we all work together, Singapore can become an international powerhouse of wedding photography. Kinda like what the Australians have done in the last 10 years. Quietly working on their own little thing in their corner of the world and then exploding into the international scene in the last 5 years, and they achieved that by working together. I think we can do that here too. Anyway, i'm trying to get the whole process started so if people have suggestions to achieving this, i'm open to suggestions.
Cheesecake
Senior Member
:thumbsup: keep it going, Singaporeans!ckuang said:
Toxicdiver
New Member
Thanks for those who have tried to understand where I was coming from and where I want to go.
To clear the mind of everyone about my intentions :
I am no a pro, I know what I am doing and invest in my equipment but it remains a passion before a business (seem that some of the posters have put aside the passion...Can t blame, probably like a lot of us in our day to day job. But for most photography is a passion (an expensive one...)
Wedding photos are among the most difficult photos yone could have to take (in my opinion)
1) as the moment is really unique and might (or should) happen once in a life time (like mixing up the photos of the opening ceremony of the olympic games or the final of the 100m where a world record is broken..)
2) you have "models" who are wearing very different contrasted suits, usually from very dark to very "white". So your tones on a same picture are out of the scope of what you would find normally, except if you like taking pictures of zebras !
3) On the day shoots, you will be lacking space and light or will not always have the opportunity to be at the optimal palce all the time.
4) people you are taking are most of the time very ordinary people, like you, like me. We are not always "good" in front of a camera...
So when I ask for tips it was about how to handle difficult light situations (indoor, outdoor), how to set up the camera regarding your tones correction, use a very shallow dof or at the opposite don t blur too much the background. What are the advantages of all this.
That was it, I never ask for the prices one would charge, I said some are overcharging for their work and others compared to the rest of the market should charge 10 times more, but this is not my problem until I get married....
BTW thanks to Ellery for your philosphy lesson, but you were out of scope mate :
1) You can t try and try and try on a wedding photo (especially if you are paid for it !! Except if you mention that you are a newby and wanna do it for free or as a second photographer for a per shot sale...)
2) Giving advices is teaching a man how to fish, giving him a finished picture is giving him a fish ! As someone mentionned, you can have all the settings you want, your eye/vision will make the difference between 2 good photographers.
Last but not least, the research was done prior to my posting, but with the amount of crap you have in the internet about photography, difficult to find something good. Maybe the one who post that very smart comment could give good websites or we need to look for them too...
I wonder how some photographers could deliver good photos when they can t see further than the end of their nose (or the bottom of their pocket).
Luckily some guys who posted here are doing a great job and are happy to help...
To clear the mind of everyone about my intentions :
I am no a pro, I know what I am doing and invest in my equipment but it remains a passion before a business (seem that some of the posters have put aside the passion...Can t blame, probably like a lot of us in our day to day job. But for most photography is a passion (an expensive one...)
Wedding photos are among the most difficult photos yone could have to take (in my opinion)
1) as the moment is really unique and might (or should) happen once in a life time (like mixing up the photos of the opening ceremony of the olympic games or the final of the 100m where a world record is broken..)
2) you have "models" who are wearing very different contrasted suits, usually from very dark to very "white". So your tones on a same picture are out of the scope of what you would find normally, except if you like taking pictures of zebras !
3) On the day shoots, you will be lacking space and light or will not always have the opportunity to be at the optimal palce all the time.
4) people you are taking are most of the time very ordinary people, like you, like me. We are not always "good" in front of a camera...
So when I ask for tips it was about how to handle difficult light situations (indoor, outdoor), how to set up the camera regarding your tones correction, use a very shallow dof or at the opposite don t blur too much the background. What are the advantages of all this.
That was it, I never ask for the prices one would charge, I said some are overcharging for their work and others compared to the rest of the market should charge 10 times more, but this is not my problem until I get married....
BTW thanks to Ellery for your philosphy lesson, but you were out of scope mate :
1) You can t try and try and try on a wedding photo (especially if you are paid for it !! Except if you mention that you are a newby and wanna do it for free or as a second photographer for a per shot sale...)
2) Giving advices is teaching a man how to fish, giving him a finished picture is giving him a fish ! As someone mentionned, you can have all the settings you want, your eye/vision will make the difference between 2 good photographers.
Last but not least, the research was done prior to my posting, but with the amount of crap you have in the internet about photography, difficult to find something good. Maybe the one who post that very smart comment could give good websites or we need to look for them too...
I wonder how some photographers could deliver good photos when they can t see further than the end of their nose (or the bottom of their pocket).
Luckily some guys who posted here are doing a great job and are happy to help...
Was tempted not to post in this thread, but if you want to see what the pros in overseas carry, that's like 3 times more equipment than my arsenal that I bring along....
1. Leica MP with leicavit : 35mm summicron 4th version and 90mm - I shoot exclusively black and white with this setup. This setup is really my favourite - small, light, fast, quiet, blends in just like the other relatives. More importantly, and believe it or not, it is faster than AF cameras if you know how to pre-focus.
2. Canon 1D 2 and 5D. 1D2 as main and 5D for low light condition. 1D2 still give a managable file size compared to the 5D....
3. 16-35mm and 24-70 and 135mm f2 (dinner) or 85mm 1.2L (day). The 16-35 is forever cemented on my 1D2, the 5D is the only one that I change lenses with. I just feel that the 24-70 and 135 f2 and 85mm seems to work only on Full-frame coz on cams with 1.3 or 1.6x crop factor, doesn't fit in anywhere.
4. 580EX flash, hardly use it, cept for fill-in and banquet.
5. Quantum 2x2. My main power supply for flash. I have the cables to connect it to my 1D2 in event of flat battery or want a slightly lighter set up.
6. Optional: slave flash orbs. Small pocket size flash that fits in your pocket. Trust me, these can make a diff if you know how to use them. Just make sure you're firing from Manual mode and not ETTL.
Ultimately, it really depends on your shooting style and really bring what you need.... I was reading Shutter Bug march 2006 issue, those europeans are carrying like 6 lenses and 3 bodies plus their powerbook 15" for their wedding assignments, that includes the 200 f1.8L. My back wouldn't allow me to take that kind of load...
1. Leica MP with leicavit : 35mm summicron 4th version and 90mm - I shoot exclusively black and white with this setup. This setup is really my favourite - small, light, fast, quiet, blends in just like the other relatives. More importantly, and believe it or not, it is faster than AF cameras if you know how to pre-focus.
2. Canon 1D 2 and 5D. 1D2 as main and 5D for low light condition. 1D2 still give a managable file size compared to the 5D....
3. 16-35mm and 24-70 and 135mm f2 (dinner) or 85mm 1.2L (day). The 16-35 is forever cemented on my 1D2, the 5D is the only one that I change lenses with. I just feel that the 24-70 and 135 f2 and 85mm seems to work only on Full-frame coz on cams with 1.3 or 1.6x crop factor, doesn't fit in anywhere.
4. 580EX flash, hardly use it, cept for fill-in and banquet.
5. Quantum 2x2. My main power supply for flash. I have the cables to connect it to my 1D2 in event of flat battery or want a slightly lighter set up.
6. Optional: slave flash orbs. Small pocket size flash that fits in your pocket. Trust me, these can make a diff if you know how to use them. Just make sure you're firing from Manual mode and not ETTL.
Ultimately, it really depends on your shooting style and really bring what you need.... I was reading Shutter Bug march 2006 issue, those europeans are carrying like 6 lenses and 3 bodies plus their powerbook 15" for their wedding assignments, that includes the 200 f1.8L. My back wouldn't allow me to take that kind of load...
ckuang said:
Absolutely agree with you...
When I see someone advertise for $300 for a wedding coverage... I find it pointless.
Marriage is once in a lifetime thing (we like to believe that, especially in western world), hence they will spend the money. According to statistic, Wedding business (as a whole) worth $5 billion in US market, I think about $2 Billion in Australia.
Hence most people will pay for your service if they like your style.
Photographer should compete each other in style and format, NOT in pricing.
If every wedding photographer drop their price to compete in the market, then it eventually kill off the market rate. Everything is going up, but how come the price for wedding photography stays the same.
You charge what you think YOU WORTH...
Equipment wise and how you shoot it, it is personal choice, there is no right or wrong when come to Photo...
Regards,
Hart
Toxicdiver said:
Your thread might have a sound and noble idea. You mentioned you have done your research. But you found absolutely nothing that's useful? If you had found something useful, why aren't you sharing what you know to jumpstart your noble idea? Sharing of links to inspirational wedding photographers? Low light shooting? Nothing useful? All crap? Type "low-light photography" in google search box and you have to distil crap? Do that, and come back and rebut me if there really isn't nothing. Of course, you can choose the more constructive alternative of proving your noble cause - start a repository of resources. Invite people to add on. Categorise the areas you think experienced photographers can help. If you can't think of anything, invite seasoned photogs to come up with categories.
You seem to me to be extremely accusational to anyone who tried to point out the responsibility of the individual learner. You seem to me to be like someone who expect to be fed. Not to be taught how to fish. Imbued with the sense of responsibility to learn is detrimental to someone who wants to learn how to fish. If you had specific questions on wedding photography, you mean they won't be answered? All you did was start a thread to invite everyone to share their best practices, nothing to anchor upon, nothing to guide. Would this thread be any useful to anyone who's willing to learn? Bits and pieces of information, not contextualised in any form. If this thread turns up in a search, you mean the searcher won't need to filter through crap?
Sorry for the harsh tone. Your posts are much more measured, but no less negative.
Does anyone find it appalling that divorce rates are reaching 50% in the US. (rising in Singapore as well)
So that probably means 1 in every 2 couples you shoot, will end in divorce.
I find that so sad. Here we are trying to document that once in a lifetime day with two people looking into each other's eyes, so much in love.
And you know that years down the road, they'd be tearing their albums apart, with tears in their eyes.
I'm a wedding photographer, and it is my belief that all marraiges should be between two people who want to spend the rest of their lives together. And i certainly want all my clients to do that.
But i just can't help but feel a little sad about the grim reality. That one in two marraiges will end in divorce.
So that probably means 1 in every 2 couples you shoot, will end in divorce.
I find that so sad. Here we are trying to document that once in a lifetime day with two people looking into each other's eyes, so much in love.
And you know that years down the road, they'd be tearing their albums apart, with tears in their eyes.
I'm a wedding photographer, and it is my belief that all marraiges should be between two people who want to spend the rest of their lives together. And i certainly want all my clients to do that.
But i just can't help but feel a little sad about the grim reality. That one in two marraiges will end in divorce.
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