Voigtlander Bessa R2/R3/R4 M


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Jchrome

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Aug 4, 2009
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Hi all,

Would like to hear about your experiences of using the above RF.
Never own a RF before, Consider to invest one of the body above.
Generally I had read through the information from chiff website, and also some review via google searched. Between the M(fully manual) or A(auto exposure), I had clearly understand that the fully manual is my choice.

Therefore, here (clubsnap) will be my last push/pull for me to enter the film RF world.
Would like to hear the most direct comment and sharing from the R2/R3/R4 M users here.

You may also post the pics taken with above bodies here.
Thanks you so much for your kind sharing.
 

Hi all,

Would like to hear about your experiences of using the above RF.
Never own a RF before, Consider to invest one of the body above.
Generally I had read through the information from chiff website, and also some review via google searched. Between the M(fully manual) or A(auto exposure), I had clearly understand that the fully manual is my choice.

Therefore, here (clubsnap) will be my last push/pull for me to enter the film RF world.
Would like to hear the most direct comment and sharing from the R2/R3/R4 M users here.

You may also post the pics taken with above bodies here.
Thanks you so much for your kind sharing.

The film body is just like a black box that holds the film. The modern day RF bodies, like the Voigtlander has pretty accurate area metering and accurate shutter. What really matters in picture taking is the lens that you use and your composition and skill.

One advantage of the RF bodies over other cameras is the size. You can practically use it on any situation without getting your subject over conscious that you are taking their pictures. Sometimes, people might even mistaken that you are using a toy instead. With it diminutive size people feel less threatened and less shy and more willing to accept you into their environment/world. That's practically the gist of journalistic reportage in the 50's & 60's. Cameras were made small, unobtrusive, portable and most important of all SIMPLE.

I don't understand why cameras are made so complicated these days. So many metering modes, so many focusing zones, so many different kind of jumbo mumbo settings... maybe that's the only way to make consumer feel that will make their bucks worth...

But, does that mean better pictures?

Cameras like the Bessa III 667 made so simple might not appeal to the Singaporean market, but in the western world and Japanese market, it has taken the analog photography market by storm.

Anyway... back to your question... you can check out some of the pictures taken with RF bodies on my flickr here . There are a mixture of pictures taken with the Bessa bodies, Leica M6, Nikon S, Bessa III & a couple of medium format bodies.... Also taken with different Voigtlander lenses, which shows the characteristic of the pictures.

Most of the pictures were taken using film. Some were taken using digital (mostly product shots). I am a film guy. I don't really believe better pictures, art and composition has anything to do with technology at all (maybe only the clone tool to clear the dust and level to adjust the lighting...)

One advise for any new starter into film... It's not like digital that you need to invest $2000 on a DSLR system to jump into all the mumbo, jumbo this lens, that lens VR, stabalizer, ISO6400 bodies....

You can get started with a very good tool to take superb pictures just with a S$120 GTN or GSN or Canonet or XA. All you need is some patience and understanding light and composition to take good pictures. Then invest in a entry level scanner like the Canoscan 8800F which cost about S$300 to scan your pictures, so you don't have to rely on the labs to charge you $12 for each roll of film that you send for scanning. You can do B&W developing yourself and it is relatively cheap, which might work out to less than $1 per roll of developing cost!

People always ask me whether it's worth the money to get into the digital M gears... and my reply is always "even if you buy velvia and send your slides for E6 development and scan and you do that at an average 2 rolls per week, and do that for 2 years, you will never hit the the price of a new M8.2 body.

If you are unsure whether film is for you, take my advise, get one of those fixed lens RF cameras mentioned above to try out first, you might get a good deal and even earn a profit selling it after using for 2 months.

If you find that film and RF is for you, you can invest in the Bessa bodies with a good fast f1.4 lens (35/f1.4, 40/f1.4). That will keep you happy for a while and start you shooting in most situations.

If after using the Bessa RF for 6 months to a year and God of Fortune like you so much and give you enough budget to upgrade, you can go for Leica gears... but... be warned... once you tread into the Leica world, it is a point of no return...

Hope that helps you in your decision making....
 

The film body is just like a black box that holds the film. The modern day RF bodies, like the Voigtlander has pretty accurate area metering and accurate shutter. What really matters in picture taking is the lens that you use and your composition and skill.

One advantage of the RF bodies over other cameras is the size. You can practically use it on any situation without getting your subject over conscious that you are taking their pictures. Sometimes, people might even mistaken that you are using a toy instead. With it diminutive size people feel less threatened and less shy and more willing to accept you into their environment/world. That's practically the gist of journalistic reportage in the 50's & 60's. Cameras were made small, unobtrusive, portable and most important of all SIMPLE.

I don't understand why cameras are made so complicated these days. So many metering modes, so many focusing zones, so many different kind of jumbo mumbo settings... maybe that's the only way to make consumer feel that will make their bucks worth...

But, does that mean better pictures?

Cameras like the Bessa III 667 made so simple might not appeal to the Singaporean market, but in the western world and Japanese market, it has taken the analog photography market by storm.

Anyway... back to your question... you can check out some of the pictures taken with RF bodies on my flickr here . There are a mixture of pictures taken with the Bessa bodies, Leica M6, Nikon S, Bessa III & a couple of medium format bodies.... Also taken with different Voigtlander lenses, which shows the characteristic of the pictures.

Most of the pictures were taken using film. Some were taken using digital (mostly product shots). I am a film guy. I don't really believe better pictures, art and composition has anything to do with technology at all (maybe only the clone tool to clear the dust and level to adjust the lighting...)

One advise for any new starter into film... It's not like digital that you need to invest $2000 on a DSLR system to jump into all the mumbo, jumbo this lens, that lens VR, stabalizer, ISO6400 bodies....

You can get started with a very good tool to take superb pictures just with a S$120 GTN or GSN or Canonet or XA. All you need is some patience and understanding light and composition to take good pictures. Then invest in a entry level scanner like the Canoscan 8800F which cost about S$300 to scan your pictures, so you don't have to rely on the labs to charge you $12 for each roll of film that you send for scanning. You can do B&W developing yourself and it is relatively cheap, which might work out to less than $1 per roll of developing cost!

People always ask me whether it's worth the money to get into the digital M gears... and my reply is always "even if you buy velvia and send your slides for E6 development and scan and you do that at an average 2 rolls per week, and do that for 2 years, you will never hit the the price of a new M8.2 body.

If you are unsure whether film is for you, take my advise, get one of those fixed lens RF cameras mentioned above to try out first, you might get a good deal and even earn a profit selling it after using for 2 months.

If you find that film and RF is for you, you can invest in the Bessa bodies with a good fast f1.4 lens (35/f1.4, 40/f1.4). That will keep you happy for a while and start you shooting in most situations.

If after using the Bessa RF for 6 months to a year and God of Fortune like you so much and give you enough budget to upgrade, you can go for Leica gears... but... be warned... once you tread into the Leica world, it is a point of no return...

Hope that helps you in your decision making....


Looks like Chiff sum up everything!

Anyway, I too believe that technology doesnt really play a big part in how good the end product is, still boils down to the photographer.

One of my fav photographers, Terry Richardson, his got an amazing portfolio, just check out his bio on the webpage:
http://www.terryrichardson.com/


Fyi, he take portraits with a compact, stuff like Yashica T4 :sweat: Makes one wonder why we need all that gear :sweat:
*edit* here is one shoot for Supreme with Kermit the Frog on a Contax G1 or G2, not too sure:
kermit-suprme-richardson-1.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omuTyyulHAs



Anyway, you can see pics from my bessa on my flickr below as well.
 

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Would like to hear the most direct comment and sharing from the R2/R3/R4 M users here.

I have R3A and 35 f/1.2 Nokton. I must say, I love the combination even though I have to guess a little for 35mm framing
 

Actually can also consider the R2/3/4 A. Electronic shutter is quite reliable actually. Also u get to see the shutter speed set by the camera in the view finder. Also for occasional fast shot u can go for aperture priority mode.
 

Heard that someone needed a push from an R3M user, so here I am:)

The rest, especially Chiif, have already summed up everything for you and all I could really add is: "Just Do It". The RF experience is real unique and you should really just give it a go. At most, you dont like it and would end up selling your gear, losing a few hundred dollars in the process. But in the event that you fall in love with it, and that's a great likelihood, be prepared to lose even more by all the lens and body lust:D

Both the A and M series will give you the same accurate metering. You can also choose to shoot in manual with the A. Personally I went for the R3M because I didnt want to give myself that choice. One of the reasons for me to go RF is to get involved in the whole picture making process again. And that would include setting the exposure myself for every single shot. With an A camera, I know that I wont be able to resist using the AE. Most people would advise that you use the sunny 16 rule to estimate your exposure and that would be a good start. You can always use the in cam meter to confirm your own estimate. After a while, it will become second nature to you and you might not even need the meter anymore.

And one more thing about the Voigtlander cameras, they are well built and will last a long long time :thumbsup:

So, just go for it :)
 

I've used a R2A and R3M before and they're great cameras.
Affordable quality rangefinders, don't need to spent a few thousands on a Leica M. (Although the resale price for a Bessa is a bit less)

One of my friends said that the R2/3/4As will get a slightly more accurate exposure compared to the R2/3/4Ms.
Anyways manual is good, once you get used to your film and ISO you can set exposures by instinct.

CV lenses are very damn affordable!
I'm using CV 50mm f1.4 and its lovely :)

3834565777_55a84342a7_o.jpg

Not a Bessa Body though.

If you're unsure about film, you might want to get those fixed focal range rangefinders for under 100 bucks and give it a roll or two.
And by the way, the most labs that does your development and scanning does so very poorly and its a lot better to do it yourself.

If you want to dive straight into the Bessas, try to find a good condition mintish used one.
 

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Hey guys, thought I can get some help from CV Bessa users here. I am planning to get the R3a, I'm just wondering what flash unit would work with it and if the camera will fit on my current Manfrotto tripod. Thanks!
 

Hey guys, thought I can get some help from CV Bessa users here. I am planning to get the R3a, I'm just wondering what flash unit would work with it and if the camera will fit on my current Manfrotto tripod. Thanks!

Hmmm am using a Sunpak PF20XD, about SGD110 from Cathay Photo, works fine so far. But honestly havent been using much of it, I believe most RF shooters prefer to shoot with ambient lighting rather than flashes.

Anyway, here is a picture taken with the sunpak PF20XD
http://www.flickr.com/photos/agnosticgary/3700501283/
 

I have an R3A, not M as I prefer to shoot fast, so AE is important for me.

Just last month I brought my R3A to Bali with me, on it was the 15mm 90% of the time and I also shot in AE mode 90% of the time (holiday lah... lazy to meter with my sekonic, also was shooting negs, so no need to worry so much).

You'll be surprised how fast you can shoot when you have AE and the 15mm, there's hardly a need to focus with the 15, so usually I just choose an aperture, turn the focus to infinity, look through viewfinder and shoot.

One camera, one lens and not even professional film, I used consumer grade film (Kodak Gold & Ultramax) and I got pretty nice photos out of it.

3883964405_75021a4fce.jpg


3884757758_3d536eb920.jpg


3883966465_4dd3c729e1.jpg

**** fighting, camera was so small they hardly bothered to look at me

3883975819_1df5550476.jpg


3884783846_b7bc7177af.jpg


You can take a look at more photos I took with the R3A here if you are still unconvinced: http://www.ervinelin.com/?p=584
 

Hey guys, thought I can get some help from CV Bessa users here. I am planning to get the R3a, I'm just wondering what flash unit would work with it and if the camera will fit on my current Manfrotto tripod. Thanks!

Firstly, I have never used a flash on my RF, most people who shoot RF go for really fast lenses, thus negating the need for flash. Also, the type of photos that you shoot with an RF usually do not need flash anyway.

Secondly, unless your manfrotto tripod is the tiniest one, it's going to be too big. Not that it won't fit, it's just that the RF is often so light you just need to smallest of tripods to hold it. Also, one of the points of shooting with an RF is to go light. So lugging around a tripod that's 10x heavier and bulkier than your RF kinda defeats the purpose huh?

I brought the smallest & cheapest tripod I could buy from Benro to Bali. In the end got so lazy to bring it out I used it only to hold the multiplug in place in the hotel room (serious).

In other cases whereby I've had to use my tripod, a small compact one is enough to hold your RF steady. Maybe a gorillapod or even one of those table top tripods they give away with your camera purchases will also do the trick. Couple that with a cable release and you are good to go!
 

Just to add on to enivre comments on tripods.

Mostly for RF users, most of us dont really use the tripods. It is still possible to handheld shutter speeds of 1/8, 1/15, 1/30 on RF & still get sharp pictures, there is no mirror in it.
 

sounds brilliant! handholding at shutter speeds of 1/8? but i might be looking to take some long exposure night shots. hmmm... hard to decide whether to sell my current dslr kit to switch to rangefinders...

so what kind of flash will fit the bessa r3a?
 

since someone has posted a starter RF/film thread, i'd like to jump in and ask a bit about workflow processing when scanning in film.

i note that chiif has mentioned the canoscan 8800F to be a great scanner. just like to check if the reported resolution of 4800x9600 is indeed achievable or a bit of hype? i also presume that it can saved as high res tif for further processing or do most film users just use the images off the negative without much tweaking?

thx for any help.
 

I have an R3A, not M as I prefer to shoot fast, so AE is important for me.

Just last month I brought my R3A to Bali with me, on it was the 15mm 90% of the time and I also shot in AE mode 90% of the time (holiday lah... lazy to meter with my sekonic, also was shooting negs, so no need to worry so much).

You'll be surprised how fast you can shoot when you have AE and the 15mm, there's hardly a need to focus with the 15, so usually I just choose an aperture, turn the focus to infinity, look through viewfinder and shoot.

One camera, one lens and not even professional film, I used consumer grade film (Kodak Gold & Ultramax) and I got pretty nice photos out of it.

3883964405_75021a4fce.jpg


3884757758_3d536eb920.jpg


3883966465_4dd3c729e1.jpg

**** fighting, camera was so small they hardly bothered to look at me

3883975819_1df5550476.jpg


3884783846_b7bc7177af.jpg


You can take a look at more photos I took with the R3A here if you are still unconvinced: http://www.ervinelin.com/?p=584

hey, nice album! The colours look extremely vibrant and contrasty! Did you use a circular polariser? Sorry, I know I quite noob in rangefinders...
 

since someone has posted a starter RF/film thread, i'd like to jump in and ask a bit about workflow processing when scanning in film.

i note that chiif has mentioned the canoscan 8800F to be a great scanner. just like to check if the reported resolution of 4800x9600 is indeed achievable or a bit of hype? i also presume that it can saved as high res tif for further processing or do most film users just use the images off the negative without much tweaking?

thx for any help.

usually scanned files from negatives have dust and scratch particles which needs to be cleaned up digitally to look presentable.

Straight scan from colour negatives or slides often give colour cast and looks a little bit off. Most often we correct the colour using "Auto-Colour" feature or adjust the white balance on Lightroom & the levels to make it more close to real life. If you are thinking of "nude" from scan is the true colour, it might not be totally true.

In short, it's best to adjust your image before presentation. Straight from scan usually do not give the optimal result. Hope that helps...
 

sounds brilliant! handholding at shutter speeds of 1/8? but i might be looking to take some long exposure night shots. hmmm... hard to decide whether to sell my current dslr kit to switch to rangefinders...

so what kind of flash will fit the bessa r3a?

if you have a fast lens, you might not even need a tripod...



Taken just 3 days ago at BKK. Hand held 35/f1.4, can't remember what's the speed. On Lucky SHD 100 film.
 

sounds brilliant! handholding at shutter speeds of 1/8? but i might be looking to take some long exposure night shots. hmmm... hard to decide whether to sell my current dslr kit to switch to rangefinders...

so what kind of flash will fit the bessa r3a?


Yep, 1/8 is possible.

Here is one more from me, F1.2 wide open, Shutter 1/4, Kodak Elitechrome Extra Color asa100
3854248575_9403b5e1ab.jpg


Not the best shot around but just to show that 1/4 is still possible.


Am said in my earlier posting, I am using a Sunpak PF20XD. Use it only during parties to get fast shots rather than focusing. Other than that, hardly use the flash.

If you take a look at 'share some RF shots from 1-4', prob close to 100% of the pictures are without flash. RF users prefer to use fast lenses & the advantage of the ability to hold slow shutters to take their shots at night.
 

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