not applicable within a certain ~700 sq km of land on earth2. Have you heard of unemployment benefits? Welfare? Social security?
not applicable within a certain ~700 sq km of land on earth2. Have you heard of unemployment benefits? Welfare? Social security?
Most 1st world government provide social welfare to the unemployed, handicapped and elderly. They also provide essential services such as education and health care for free or a nominal amount.
Governments exist to serve the population/society at large.
They do not exist to put monies in their pockets. I will be very worried if you are part of the government.:sweat:
Hi,
I concur with you on most of the following - however, here's some of my own perspectives:
a,b,c) That's true all right - however, what has been GIC's performance returns on the whole? A short Google showed this, from ST in 2006:
Unless we get more data, it's hard to analyse this in detail - good or bad, it remains to be seen. So I don't think we should pass any judgement calls on their performance based on some successful/failed deals in the past.
d,e,f) I can't agree more - no matter what the risk is, there needs to be accountability for these fund managers for the investment decisions that they take, regardless of market conditions. This is the real world - if you can't perform, get ready to pack your bags. Hope I wasn't misconstrued in my previous post.
However, on this whole SWF issue, I feel that there are some gripes on the following aspects (my personal comments though):
1) Accountability of these SWFs seems to be lackadaisical in the public's eyes. There was a recent ST (or BT?) article commenting about GIC being one of the least transparent SWFs around:
Without so little public information about them (from performance to accountability issues), people can only second-guess/analyse on what's going around them, and that can be misleading at times (whether good or bad).
However, given the context that they are operating in - after all, they are a SWF, and there are a whole lot of other factors (from political concerns to national security), it may be difficult for these SWFs to be as forthcoming as say, the hedge fund around the street.
Then having said that, I personally think that they shouldn't use this as a reason not to disclose at all - after all, from research, there are SWFs that have managed this better on a relative scale. But to be on the objective side, it's not as straightforward to do so either.
EDIT: I missed out on your Post #49 - some interesting perspectives there though.
1. Not happy cannot say anything? What kind of logic is that?
2. Have you heard of unemployment benefits? Welfare? Social security?
We should find another fund manager who can make one cent, and doesn't lose one cent.
In the financial world, earnings volatility is undesirable, to be avoided.
On another note, if we have a fun manager who refuses to discuss how many cents he makes or loses, we should not allow him to continue investing. In fact, we should sack him.
There is never a perfect system and no govt in the world can make all the people happy.
Welfare state kills the economy of a country.
down,''
"You're only as good as your last shoot"
Correct that is why transparency is so IMPORTANT and mandatory to keep things in check to ensure we are all on the right track, to reassure the public in general on the situation....etc
I doubt anyone of us here is realling saying that what the govt or GIC does is not entirely in our collective interest and the good of the nation. We are all citizens here and should be treated as such. Whether it be about good news, bad news or just news to help keep us in the loop to know what's happening and if we need to brace ourselve and ride through a long term strategie that the govt or GIC or whoever is taking be it action or monetary investments. If we are all in it for the long haul, a more consultative approach is the way to go...wasn't that what our former PM Goh J T said as we moved away from the more parental approach to running the country when the old guards were bulding our nation back in the 60s.
Having to make something transparent for all to see does not mean WE DON'T TRUST YOU. Try to look at it as a way to assure folk about whats going on. You can still make your moves, plan your strategies, take certain actions..etc but people who have a vested interest in the future of this country would like to just know. Even if everything is on the up and up and no foul play is taking place. You have to admit if you keep telling people not to question your judgement or action each time you are asked.... sooner or later, people will start to think otherwise. That is only human nature.
We can not take things at face value always and just go on faith and keep our eyes close all the time and simply open our mouth and wait to be spoon-fed. So long as that is happening, we should always just keep our eyes close for the spoon with food is always coming because someone says so and that is all you need to know.
If my investment agent takes my money to invest on my behalf, I would expect to know how he intend to do so. Tell me my risk. Tell me not just the good news of how much I could make but to also tell me what I could lose. He would also consult with me on how much I am willing to lose and what measures he might take if he encounter problems with or without consulting me. And to keep an open channel to me to keep me updated. He might not need my input to decide how to invest but I would like him to listen to me to know how I am feeling about the relationship we are having or feeling facing a down turn that is making me nervous especially if he is asking me to hold or cut my loses.
And on my part, I would have to trust him and that he knows what he is doing. But if he take my money, put up an iron curtain and not tell me a single thing. Hands me my windfall or tell me we just lost money and no explanation is given as he feel I am not capable to understand or he just don;t think I shoul dneed to know. Then how can trust be created or maintained? Keeping me informed is like what I mentioned earlier about "transparency", it is not about distrust. It is just about keeping one informedm, maintain confidence and to ensure that we are both on the same objective. If he can't do that...yes he does deserve to be fired. Frankly even if he is making me more money then losing. Why? Because one of these days it 'might' be a lost that could wipe me out completely of all that I have gained and lose combined then whoes' the wiser? Now that may not happen but as you can see it is human nature to assume that in the absense of information. But it is easy to solve. Open dialogue. Yes some stuff you can't say over the air or whatever but you should still be able to release something good enough to calm some nerves yes? heheh..
anyhoo..just a rant no need to reply lah hehe.....
This is the kind of thing you've been taught since young, when this govt was against welfare.
Tharman says not govt's role to comment on GIC, Temasek investments. Whose role then??? Thats the question, every other answers posted are not wrong. Most of the inputs are right depending on which perspective. This is one of the few thread in CS with intelligent input, food for thought.
Ive no doubt that these investments in the various financial institutions are timely and would yield handsome returns; it may even double in 3 years.
But Ive a couple of moral issues here, how much and when is it enough? USD200B, USD400B?
Is it intelligent, opportunity, ego or greed to keep investing and grow?
What is the return? And where is it going?
its a good question where are all the investment is going, especially all the yields returns, well, my guess is its not going back to us even if its our money they are investing in the first place
overtax us?
...you seem to like comparisons. perhaps you should compare our country's taxes to the rest of the world, and bring up strong examples where another country is relatively "lightly taxed". where your unemployment benefits are concerned.. i haven't found a country which provides GOOD COVERAGE as you say, and has low taxes. the equation would not balance.
1. Not happy cannot say anything? What kind of logic is that?
2. Have you heard of unemployment benefits? Welfare? Social security?
comparisons should be made to the governments expenditure
rather than the percentage it collects.
if OUR SERVANTS need a dollar but ask for two,
when they return 50CENTs,
is that sound?
if it is to u,
do u need a personal financial advisor???
i m in
ooi, you fail to see this partcan you prove what you say?
if not, best not to comment and result in a display of inability to think logically or communicate
%s or not, countries have their own living standards and costs. if you look at the countries which collect on par or even more than singapore and even base it on their equivalent living standards and the standard of infrastructure/public amenities, then i think you have just slapped yourself in the face - singapore is superior to most, honestly.
i am extremely curious what england does with its taxes, for example. even in its capital (which is usually not the case), the buildings are old, the parks are seriously, not very well-maintained, and public infrastructure like buses, public toilets and the underground is horribly maintained. this is first-hand, and not postulation. i'm sure anyone who's had the dreadful experience of taking the tube after taking our local mrt can tell you that it's almost like heaven and hell. recently, there were "plans" and "talk" that they would upgrade the underground system by installing air conditioning so that at least consumers would have a better time in summer (where temperatures in the underground can rise up to 40 degrees and above).. and reduce number of heat stroke occurences. the maintenance company went bust, and then suddenly.. all that "talk" became hot air. you want to compare? open your eyes bigger.
if OUR SERVANTS need a dollar but ask for two,
when they return 50CENTs,
is that sound?
...so you also are of the thinking that the government is hoarding the money somewhere isitWouldn't you want to know what happened to the 50cts? I would, cos this time it's 50cts, next time maybe larger amount. Needs transparency... there is no 2 ways about it.
../azul123
You said it, not me....so you also are of the thinking that the government is hoarding the money somewhere isit
if they are, fair enough, but if i know that my money is being put to good investment (on average) and not being clowned around with, like it would be in some countries other than singapore, and the returns are not horrible.. then i say, this is what the people have voted for, this is what they have chosen.. and they should respect their own decision by putting faith in the elected. now, that is a very different story from what kalas has painted, no?
also, i am surprised that no one (or any civil servants, public officers) has taken offense that kalas refers to them as OUR SERVANTS. civil servants =/= our servants. give the people some basic respect please.
You said it, not me.
I was talking about the servant.
../azul123