Sigma and warranty issues, the facts

[bernardsia]

I have on my hands a 70-200 HSM and 2x teleconvertor. Which I bought from TCW about 6 months ago. I never knew anything about TCW selling parallel imported sets and nothing was mentioned by the sales staff about the gear being gray sets. I asked about warranty and was told one year. It was written in the receipt and that was it. Due to the other post and the fact I am selling off my Sigma gear. I wanted to check and make sure everything is in oder before I hand over to the new owner.

I called Sigma to query about the possibility of my lens being a gray set. They couldn't check with just the serial number. Instead, I had to see if the warranty card had a Sigma Singapore round stamp. Mine didn't. I was pretty concerned and asked about Sigma Singapore accepting my lens for warranty claims if the need arise. I was assured, with the receipt and warranty card Sigma Singapore will accept my lens. The technical aspect will be handled by the technicians. But the warranty will be honoured.

For the person who was rejected by Sigma. You can try calling Mariam (this is how her name is pronounced) to clairfy your position. Sigma's number is 62739622. Their service is very good from my personal experence.

With all that said. It's a shame TCW conducts business this way. I will never patronize this shop again. Across the street for a few dollars more buys me confidence.

 

[jbma]

I have on my hands a 70-200 HSM and 2x teleconvertor. Which I bought from TCW about 6 months ago. I never knew anything about TCW selling parallel imported sets and nothing was mentioned by the sales staff about the gear being gray sets. I asked about warranty and was told one year. It was written in the receipt and that was it. Due to the other post and the fact I am selling off my Sigma gear. I wanted to check and make sure everything is in oder before I hand over to the new owner.

I called Sigma to query about the possibility of my lens being a gray set. They couldn't check with just the serial number. Instead, I had to see if the warranty card had a Sigma Singapore round stamp. Mine didn't. I was pretty concerned and asked about Sigma Singapore accepting my lens for warranty claims if the need arise. I was assured, with the receipt and warranty card Sigma Singapore will accept my lens. The technical aspect will be handled by the technicians. But the warranty will be honoured.

For the person who was rejected by Sigma. You can try calling Mariam (this is how her name is pronounced) to clairfy your position. Sigma's number is 62739622. Their service is very good from my personal experence.

With all that said. It's a shame TCW conducts business this way. I will never patronize this shop again. Across the street for a few dollars more buys me confidence.

But they are known to sell grey sets. This has been discussed countless times on CS.
Anyway Mariam is a nice lady. She helped me many times.

 

[espn]

TCW all along has been selling grey sets/parallel imports, it's a well known fact.

But I think they have gone a bit too far when they sell new sets and assumed all that buy from them know that it's grey sets.

Take for instance when mugenzim bought his 50 f/1.4 from TCW. They didn't tell him it was a grey set. Fortunately for mugenzim, he dropped by NUG and seeing the plastic bag prompted me to ask if he knew he just bought an item that's grey from TCW.

He was also same like acidbyte and you, shocked. The price he paid was just about $50 difference from a set that's warrantied. So I got him to march back and demand for warranty card, of course they can't produce, so TCW refunded him the cash instead.

Nowadays they just don't tell their customers anymore, everything is based on assumption everybody knows TCW is selling only GREY sets.

So... just beware folks.

 

[sumball]

This is too much. If I am to get a set from the registered store, I assume the set is with local warranty unless he specify to me and explain to me what a grey set is and the set I am getting is a grey set, if not, i will never know.

Just like buying something from those shops having "closing down sale" promotion, something they sell are cheaper but we can tell from the packaging that it is not meant for local sale cos some with Thais. Same as some chaep DVD sold in Singapore, I would say they are illegal cos they are not suppose to be sold outside Mainland China but the custom pass and no govt bodies raid them, funny huh? :dunno:

 

[bernardsia]

Saying TCW selling gray sets is a fact is indeed true. But how do people know about such a fact, if the shop is not honest enough to inform their customers? I was born knowing how to suckle nipples for survival, but I had no genes to make sensing gray gear as an instinct. Besides I wasn't regularly on clubsnap six months ago.

The fact that I asked about warranty would tell you I was concerned. Did the salesman forget such an important fact? He wrote 'one year warranty' on my receipt. But forgot to write SHOP ONLY? Was it deliberate, or did he know Sigma will honour the warranty anyway?

I am happy Sigma provides excellent service and has made my issue a non-issue. I can safely sell my gear to the new owner, inform him the facts and he can use them with no worries. I can't say the same for the countless 'blind' people.

 

[Helbreath]

Yah i would like to add that Sigma Singapore was nice enough to give me the warranty for one of my lenses even though i had lost my receipt.

And yah all lenses brought in by Sigma Singapore will have a stamp and a batch 'code' on the warranty card.

And shame on TCW's part for not informing customers about their grey stuff. :thumbsd:

 

[Parchiao]

Shame on those of you who do not know what you are buying. Regardless of what you buy, if you don't ask and just make presumptions, only to find out that it is not as what you have expected, that makes you silly doesn't it i.e. you pay for something you don't know about OR you simply don't know the value of money enough to ensure that you spend it properly. :bsmilie:

I have never purchased a single item from TCW, but I am very happy that shops like this exist, sell you the same new lens for a whole lot cheaper, yet still have a year's worth of warranty. In my context, it is like having your cake and having to eat it too! :heart:

BTW, parallel imports are strictly legal, which goes to show how ignorant some others here are. Your instant noodles from your neighbourhood discounted provision store could well be one example of a whole lot daily necessities that we consume. Having parallel imports does have its irks in the business sense, but their existance helps to bring down artificially high prices. The benefits are mainly to consumers like me and you. Also, if you buy a lens, why should you pay for a warranty that you may never use? If the quality of the lens really exists, then there is no necessity to pay for that warranty, unless you are buying junk to begin with. :think:

Can't figure out why some of you must bitch or whine about good things. :complain:

 

[espn]

Shame on those of you who do not know what you are buying. Regardless of what you buy, if you don't ask and just make presumptions, only to find out that it is not as what you have expected, that makes you silly doesn't it i.e. you pay for something you don't know about OR you simply don't know the value of money enough to ensure that you spend it properly. :bsmilie:

So, you mean to tell me I need to ask whether warranty is included in the package when I make a purchase? Come on, we're talking common sense here, don't twist facts and words around.

I have never purchased a single item from TCW, but I am very happy that shops like this exist, sell you the same new lens for a whole lot cheaper, yet still have a year's worth of warranty. In my context, it is like having your cake and having to eat it too! :heart:

Whole lot cheaper? HARDLY. $50 max from what I see. Whole year's of warranty not by the original manufacturer but by their own service centre, would you trust that? I know I won't, after all who knows their lenses better than their original manufacturer. It's like having your cake, but eating it with a big file inside that will break your tooth if you bite hard enough.

BTW, parallel imports are strictly legal, which goes to show how ignorant some others here are. Your instant noodles from your neighbourhood discounted provision store could well be one example of a whole lot daily necessities that we consume. Having parallel imports does have its irks in the business sense, but their existance helps to bring down artificially high prices. The benefits are mainly to consumers like me and you. Also, if you buy a lens, why should you pay for a warranty that you may never use? If the quality of the lens really exists, then there is no necessity to pay for that warranty, unless you are buying junk to begin with. :think:

I can see who's the one being ignorant here and shooting his/her mouth off...

Can't figure out why some of you must bitch or whine about good things. :complain:

Obviously you can't because you don't understand the whole thread.

 

[vince123123]

I wholly agree with you. Just because parallel imports are legal doesn't necessarily make it legal for material facts to be withheld from the purchaser.

I can see who's the one being ignorant here and shooting his/her mouth off...

Obviously you can't because you don't understand the whole thread.

 

[Parchiao]

So, you mean to tell me I need to ask whether warranty is included in the package when I make a purchase? Come on, we're talking common sense here, don't twist facts and words around.

It is your responsibility to ask. The warranty of anything that you buy differs from the place you buy, the brand you buy etc. There is no need to twist and turn facts. Was this asked specifically? Obviously not.

Whole lot cheaper? HARDLY. $50 max from what I see. Whole year's of warranty not by the original manufacturer but by their own service centre, would you trust that? I know I won't, after all who knows their lenses better than their original manufacturer. It's like having your cake, but eating it with a big file inside that will break your tooth if you bite hard enough.

$50 in absolute terms for photographic equiptment may be little, but in relative terms, it could mean a lot. I don't know the price of lens, but if you calculate that, I bet you that it is more than 10%, maybe a lot more. Trust is a matter of perception. My perceptions are different from yours.

I can see who's the one being ignorant here and shooting his/her mouth off....

Sticks and stones. You don't say why you say this, I take this as baseless remarks.

Obviously you can't because you don't understand the whole thread.

Again, you don't say why. Again, baseless remarks.

 

[Parchiao]

I wholly agree with you. Just because parallel imports are legal doesn't necessarily make it legal for material facts to be withheld from the purchaser.

Ask the police if this is legal. I can bet you that I know the answer.

 

[vince123123]

I think you have miscomprehended my statement. I said that parallel imports are legal.

You might want to rephrase your statement to make it clearer what is it you are referring to. What is "this" and what is your answer. Statements like "I bet you that I know the answer" doesn't add much information.

Ask the police if this is legal. I can bet you that I know the answer.

 

[vince123123]

I would be curious to know on what legal basis you say that the buyer has the "responsibility" to ask. I hope its not that "buyer beware" thing again which people are fond of floating around.

It is your responsibility to ask. The warranty of anything that you buy differs from the place you buy, the brand you buy etc. There is no need to twist and turn facts. Was this asked specifically? Obviously not.

 

[icarus]

Its a well known fact that TCW sells grey stuffs what.... normally those that got 'conned' by TCW are those newbies who did not do proper research before buying! Ok, perhaps the only research they did was on the pricing... so when they got a cheap quotation from TCW, they jumped into buying....

I am not trying to defend TCW or anything, but from my own experience, they do not HIDE the fact that they are selling grey stuffs... if newbies are unsure, they sure ask first... and when they check the warranty card, its up to them to check the chop as well....

In short... be a smart buyer... clear your doubts and check your items first before handing over the moola...

 

[icarus]

but from my own experience, they do not HIDE the fact that they are selling grey stuffs...

If u ask, they will confirm with u that the item is indeed a grey set.

 

[Parchiao]

I wholly agree with you. Just because parallel imports are legal doesn't necessarily make it legal for material facts to be withheld from the purchaser.

Legal as in this sense. I am talking about the transaction of lenses, not in any other context.

 

[Parchiao]

I would be curious to know on what legal basis you say that the buyer has the "responsibility" to ask. I hope its not that "buyer beware" thing again which people are fond of floating around.

We did read that TCW immediately refunded the monies for the purchase of the lens. On TCWs part, this is the correct thing to do.

The problem is that when a transaction has happenend a long time ago, or even a few days ago, there is no way to prove that there was any information withheld. Without this as evidence, you simply do not have a case. For every one person who supports that claim that they were not informed that they purchased a grey market lens, there are equal numbers who claim that they were informed. At the end of the day, it is one person's words against another, my word against yours.

So how do we avoid this? Make purchases based on informed decisions. Put this in another way, let the buyer beware. This is a simple fact of life. We talk about lenses today, I can't imagine what will happen if everyone makes uninformed decisions when they make huge or long term commitments like buying a house, taking up housing loans, getting married etc etc.

 

[dkw]

I've bought quite a few lenses from TCW, but have always been aware that they sell 'grey' items. I certainly don't think TCW are obliged to go out of their way to inform EVERYBODY who buys a lens from them that they are 'grey'. If you ask they will tell you 1 year warranty, which is patently true, if a little disingenuos. If you ask if it is warrantied by the local agent, in all likelihood they will not deceive you and say it is so. In this case, caveat emptor applies fully.

However, I am also sympathetic to bernardsia and others who are not aware of this little 'snippet' of information. It can be pretty frustrating having forked out a fair sum only to realise you hadn't got what you expected.

In a nutshell, I don't think what they are doing is unethical, its just a poor way of doing business as it only leads to unhappy clients and bad publicity.

Cheers,

 

[bernardsia]

dkw. Well you had the benefit of infomation to know you are buying a gray set with 'limited warranty'. Personally, I feel it's as good as lying, when such vital information is with held. I would have cancelled the sale if this piece of information was presented to me. If it's serious enough for me to change me mind about the sale. I won't consider it a little snippet of information probably forgotten at that point in time. Of course it's replayed many times over.

As for the part about cash refunds. It will be intresting to see what happens IF they don't.

As for buyer beware advice. I guess that is what where the Consumer Protection Bill might give some directions. I am no law reader and need help interpreting. But the two specific unfair practices are of particular interest. Maybe somebody in the know can interpret and advice if they apply to this case. However in this case, it appears to be lack of rather then false presentation.

16. Representing the availability of facilities for repair of goods or of spare parts for goods if that is not the case

20. Using small print to conceal a material fact from the consumer or to mislead a consumer as to a material fact, in connection with the supply of goods or services

 

[wibawa]

Everytime (actually twice only)I bought something from TCW & asked about warranty, they always clearly stated that the warranty is shop warranty & that we'll need to bring back the thing to them if we have any problem with it.

I don't know if everyone got the same explanation, but I think from their explanation is clear enough.

To everyone who said that TCW has to say it's "gray item" - what do you think a "newbie" customer would think about the lens/camera/etc? Not everyone understand what is "gray" and I think they have explained it easier by saying "warranty is provided by the shop".