JI detainee does a prison break.

[Yappy]

We alway have ministers switching ministries, do they need new learning curve? Do you think they do all the ground work by themselves? They just endorse the policies and even their speeches are prepared for them.

When someone read an article;

1. They understand the content
2. They have to read many times to understand the content
3. They miss interprete the content
4. They dont understand the content
5. They dont care about the content
6. They canot read the content
7. They read in between the lines
8... anybody wish to add!

And do you think the minister reads the speeches prepared blindly?

 

[night86mare]

And do you think the minister reads the speeches prepared blindly?

i would like to think that any minister who does that, will not be minister for long :bsmilie:

 

[Yappy]

It is true that "cut one down, another will rise", however, don't cut this one down, 10 or 100 or ... will rise. That is the different between a leader and a follower. This is just like solving world hunger, no solution, just can minimize. Take out as many of the "good" (bad) leaders, the problem will be able to minimize, not an easy task either.

Any for this case, taking responsibility doesn't mean one need to resign, there are many ways. If NO action taken on oneself, than that person didn't taken up the responsibility.

Actions?

1. Counselling?
2. Verbal warning?
3. Written warning?
4. Detention?
5. Suspension?
6. Call parents?
7. Report to the police?
8. Expel?
9. Public caning?
10. RTC
11. CWO
12... pse add

 

[Yappy]

Not related but good to know...

"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." ~ Mark Twain, 1835 - 1910.

 

[azul123]

Not related but good to know...

"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." ~ Mark Twain, 1835 - 1910.

Imagine that of holocaust during time of Nazi Germany. If everyone just support blindly. More importantly is that citizens be able to think critically and to do that must have full information at our disposal.

../azul123

 

[night86mare]

Imagine that of holocaust during time of Nazi Germany. If everyone just support blindly. More importantly is that citizens be able to think critically and to do that must have full information at our disposal.

../azul123

ha.

if hitler had succeeded, the germans that stood behind him would be war heroes, not war criminals. history is written by the victors. instead of hearing about how experiments on jews were carried out, today you'd hear about more stories about the allied troops and their "atrocities"

think again.

and, germany was mostly behind their leader still; after all, he did bring great glory, at least from THEIR perspective. there are always two sides to every story.

 

[azul123]

ha.

if hitler had succeeded, the germans that stood behind him would be war heroes, not war criminals. history is written by the victors. instead of hearing about how experiments on jews were carried out, today you'd hear about more stories about the allied troops and their "atrocities"

think again.

and, germany was mostly behind their leader still; after all, he did bring great glory, at least from THEIR perspective. there are always two sides to every story.

Exactly... you made my case.

../azul123

 

[night86mare]

Exactly... you made my case.

../azul123

which is? that people should think critically? there is a huge world of difference between "thinking that you are thinking critically" and actually "thinking critically". by your logic, london is a very critical city, and i hope you can come to see how this "critical thinking" has achieved great heights. :bsmilie:

i think the time when most people need to think critically; is also the time when they reveal themselves to be extreme hypocrites - i'd wager that for every "open-mouthed dissenter" here, when it comes to the crunch and you look at the big picture, oh come on, we all know where and how the voting goes.

 

[azul123]

which is? that people should think critically? there is a huge world of difference between "thinking that you are thinking critically" and actually "thinking critically". by your logic, london is a very critical city, and i hope you can come to see how this "critical thinking" has achieved great heights. :bsmilie:

i think the time when most people need to think critically; is also the time when they reveal themselves to be extreme hypocrites - i'd wager that for every "open-mouthed dissenter" here, when it comes to the crunch and you look at the big picture, oh come on, we all know where and how the voting goes.

An evil regime suceeded because it's citizens did not understand that their cause was wrong. I thought you had supported me on this. :bsmilie:

../azul123

 

[night86mare]

An evil regime suceeded because it's citizens did not understand that their cause was wrong. I thought you had supported me on this. :bsmilie:

../azul123

then you did not get what i meant

what i meant is that, it could have gone either way. and what is evil? can you tell me what is evil for sure? can you say that what is evil today is evil 50 years later? yes? how about 200? how about 400?

 

[Yappy]

An evil regime suceeded because it's citizens did not understand that their cause was wrong. I thought you had supported me on this. :bsmilie:

../azul123

I respect great leaders. Hilter is one of them. He could move Germary. Ghandi is another one and of course Mao, Lenin, Carl M, Putin, Abrahim L, Tito, Qing Sze Hwang, Castro .... etc

Many of the end result were sad stories and history.

Ask anyone which revolution come without blood being shed?

 

[Yappy]

Imagine that of holocaust during time of Nazi Germany. If everyone just support blindly. More importantly is that citizens be able to think critically and to do that must have full information at our disposal.

../azul123

In time or crisis, you need leader. No leader no country. When Tito died what happened? All, so called civilised countires went in like scavengers and broke up the countries where good neighbours became enemies!

Winners are kings and losers are prisoners--Chinese saying

 

[azul123]

I respect great leaders. Hilter is one of them.

You must be kidding... he brought great disaster to his country. That's the problem with dictatorships, there is no room for alternative opinions/voices.

../azul123

 

[Yappy]

You must be kidding... he brought great disaster to his country. That's the problem with dictatorships, there is no room for alternative opinions/voices.

../azul123

Leaders are leaders or leaders were leaders.

They can and could move and lead the people. With Germany falling apart ... don't you think U need someone to put the Germen together in one piece.

What happened to the Jews was unforgetable and unforgiveable then the atomic bomb?

Many civilians were wiped out! So?

Again the Chinese say.... Winners are kings and losers are prisoners

 

[aeskywan]

Leaders are leaders or leaders were leaders.

They can and could move and lead the people. With Germany falling apart ... don't you think U need someone to put the Germen together in one piece.

What happened to the Jews was unforgetable and unforgiveable then the atomic bomb?

Many civilians were wiped out! So?

Again the Chinese say.... Winners are kings and losers are prisoners

I think your context is not really correct and your understanding of history is also flawed.

Germany was not falling apart. It was the aggressor in the First World War 1 and it paid the price with hefty repayments to the Allied forces after it's defeat.

It was in a bad state yes but in no way falling apart. Morale was low as they carried the stigma of a defeated nation but they were not having secession problems.

Hitler took advantage of all these and rearmed Germany despite the restrictions on them and again became the aggressor by starting annexation of the Low countries and finally Europe sparking World War 2.

Hitler was no great leader by the way, he gave fiery speeches that seem to evoke scenes of devotion but he maintained control by the use of the Gestapo (German secret police) and he had also liquidated the German Parliament leaving him in sole control of the state. The military exploits were the result of German military officer's brains and tactics and no thanks to Hitler. In fact it was Hitler's lack of military tactics that cause Germany to fall. His ill fated invasion of Russia, his decision to make use of precious resources to operate the Jew killing machine. (the camps, the trains to bring the Jews to the camps) and his decision not to heed his commander's advice that the invasion at Normandy was real and hence held back Panzer divisions which could have helped to at least stall the invasion.

In fact the Allied intelligence services had considered assassinating Hitler but then decided against it because they realized it would be better to leave him at where he is and let him screw things up then to kill him and have a real military commander take over.

The Jews were killed because they were Jews. The atomic bombs were dropped because the places they were targeted at were military targets building planes, tanks, ammunition for the Japanese war effort. So it is no way related.

Having said that, I am not saying that I support the atom bomb but that some things must be put in the right context.

And as for the Chinese saying of victors are king and losers are prisoners. It is better to say , the most brillant war is one that is won before being fought as there will be no deaths and tragedy.

 

[Yappy]

Every country has 'Gestapo'. It is where the governing body collect their intelligence.

Again the Chinese saying..Know your enemy, hundred battle hundred won.

Leaders were leaders. Germany needed a leader like Hilter that point in time. Had they gotten a choice or should that appoint a puppet control by the Victors?

It was without doubt that many lives were lost during the war but it was WAR.

Should the US loose the war, will they be trial as war criminal for bombing Japan?

 

[night86mare]

...

i do not agree with hitler's methods, nor do i subscribe to any of his weird ideas.

but you overlook the main point - that despite all of his rubbish, you would find few germans during his era that weren't believers in him. judging him as a leader, is no doubt very different from judging him as a person, and i think you mix up the two. you also seem to mix up benevolent leaders with good leaders.

take for example emperor qin shi huang. you won't call him benevolent, you certainly won't call him kind, and he certainly could be called ruthless, but he did a great deal of good (along with bad) by unifying china during those troubled times. '

back on hitler - perhaps he was a horrible military strategist, and more than certainly, his generals were the ones who won the battles, not him - still what does it matter? did you really think that the great conquerors were all brilliant strategists? you only need to look to the example of the three kingdoms to see that liu bei was hopeless in every aspect except that of winning people's hearts (and how he did that, i have no idea, theatrics, maybe).

that said, the world would be a very different place if hitler had actually won his mad plans - perhaps the equivalent of "you" today would be singing his praises and dragging various allied leaders' names through the mud.

the west's saying of "all's fair in love and war" seems pretty ridiculous, when you come to think of it - all that matters once a war is started, is never who gains or who loses more; it's about who wins it eventually; to deny that would be to be very naive, indeed.

 

[Yappy]

Leaders are leaders and leaders are most of the time ruthless.

I respect because of his ability to influence the mass. He could unite and lead the people which nobody could have done so.
History would have change course if Hilter was not there. What would have become Germary? Who would lead Germary? Germay had been viewed as an aggressor since World War One so would she survive the hostility of the neighouring countries.

I believe that 'Man fights best when his back is against the wall'

But of course what he had done was inhumane and it should not happen again.