Is it worth going overseas for uni education?

[night86mare]

maybe whilst the discussion is hot let me point you to a blog

www.thentuexperience.blogspot.com

Your blog? :sticktong

Does have some points here and there, but sounds like the usual angst-y let's-lynch-foreign-students variety; a lot of UK and US schools have a majority of international students versus their locals..

So what's so disturbing about the article quoted in 29 Mar 06?

 

[blowblue]

FYI:

In the research field, especially those research institutes from biopolis.....there are two payment systems for local masters/phd grads vs overseas phd/masters grads.

Please visit NUS & NTU faculty websites and look at the prof's CV ( compare where most of the high ranking profs vs low ranking profs) ...see where most of them get their PhD from...

Then you lemme know how valued NTU and NUS paper is .

 

[Nisa]

Whatever ppl say, it's up to individual.

I think going overseas is a fantastic idea, esp if one can afford it.
go out there and experience life out of Singapore.
Might get lonely, but then oso an opporunity.

The paper u get in the end don't really matter, afterall it's just paper.
The experience i felt would be the most important.

 

[eikin]

I have no quarrel with establishing a good research programme, agreed with the name thing; but we need more than just a name there.

Well, I have crashed NUS lectures before, was not impressed by the quality of the lecturers, and that is one complaint I suppose. Small things show the difference between here and there; the NUS medicine faculty is probably one of the oddest balls in the basket when it comes to medical education, as one example. Why so much emphasis on mugging? :dunno:




So why - overseas uni also never assess hall involvement, but somehow their graduates sell. Our local unis sell too, but usually only locally, I'm sure you'd agree.

I think it's the overall experience that produces the person somewhat, perhaps like you say poor performance at interviews and all that, but I'm pretty sure employers would somehow choose to interview a candidate from a good overseas school from a good local school, which is kinda sad since to be honest, both can be good at work - but perceptions are everything in the world today, so lose out and suck thumb lor.

NUS is not a specialised school like MIT or LSE. it'll be difficult for NUS to command that level of respect given the wide range of fields covered, this is complicated by the rather limited resources (of local talents and oversea talents who are willing to invest their effort in NUS)

i think it is only right for NUS to remain unspecialised, given our small population. only complaint i have is that the current resource allocation doesn't seem fair, from what i sense amongst the schools and that ought to be improved. it's not difficult to tell which schools are benefiting more than the others in NUS. of course the admin will always have their reasons, but i can only speak for my previous school and i think it deserves better ...

want NUS to be amongst the Ivy League? probably not in the short term. NUS isn't very far off, it needs time, just too bad it doesn't happen when we are students of the school.

 

[eikin]

Hahaha, dude, better be careful before all the emo people come and quarrel with you; I've talked to many people who rant to me about how hard NUS is to enter. So best to either qualify or.. Just not say at all.

But that said, perhaps you should say that the people who enter do not view it as an opportunity, more like a must-do and must-have. Well, this is Singapore after all, we all know that education is good for us, but we will complain and find fault with whatever we must learn.

I think I've mentioned it here before, perhaps 50% or more of the people in university now will never use their skills at work; professional degrees excluding.. But hey, someone once told me that university is all about the training of the mind, not about content. :nono: Can't say I disagree.

let them complain, they'll grow out of it once they step out of university.

 

[night86mare]

NUS is not a specialised school like MIT or LSE. it'll be difficult for NUS to command that level of respect given the wide range of fields covered, this is complicated by the rather limited resources (of local talents and oversea talents who are willing to invest their effort in NUS)

i think it is only right for NUS to remain unspecialised, given our small population. only complaint i have is that the current resource allocation doesn't seem fair, from what i sense amongst the schools and that ought to be improved. it's not difficult to tell which schools are benefiting more than the others in NUS. of course the admin will always have their reasons, but i can only speak for my previous school and i think it deserves better ...

want NUS to be amongst the Ivy League? probably not in the short term. NUS isn't very far off, it needs time, just too bad it doesn't happen when we are students of the school.

With the influx of more options here, like SMU, which specialises in certain areas only, I think they can relax on that side. Yes, we are doing well if you consider the fact that after all Singapore is a small country, I can't think of any examples of universities in small countries with a name, whether shining or not is another thing altogether.

Haha, well, I haven't been studying there, don't plan to either, but I think I know based on the gripes of friends there.

Ivy League? Need to wait pretty long.. Probably after you and me are gone, or perhaps never. I'm sorry but I don't think that dream seems attainable given the way and direction in which it's progressing, a bit too slow and lethargic. Too much needs to be changed, with too little effort.

Another thing is the mindset of the people from the local unis; a lot of overseas universities receive stellar support from their alumini. Heck, even here, you can tell which secondary school's alumini is showing good backing for the school, right.

I don't really see this being done for local unis. No support, cannot raise fees too much, how? Start rearing chickens on campus to sell? =D

 

[eikin]

FYI:

In the research field, especially those research institutes from biopolis.....there are two payment systems for local masters/phd grads vs overseas phd/masters grads.

Please visit NUS & NTU faculty websites and look at the prof's CV ( compare where most of the high ranking profs vs low ranking profs) ...see where most of them get their PhD from...

Then you lemme know how valued NTU and NUS paper is .

you're being unfair here. how do we start the research programmes when we don't even have the relevant people in the first place? how many generations of researchers do we have in substantial numbers? people only keep complaining that the NUS/NTU cert. is useless, the more people complain the more useless they get. schools don't get established overnight, and there'll always be skeptics.

 

[psychobiologist]

Your blog? :sticktong

Does have some points here and there, but sounds like the usual angst-y let's-lynch-foreign-students variety; a lot of UK and US schools have a majority of international students versus their locals..

So what's so disturbing about the article quoted in 29 Mar 06?

nope, a friend's.

i dont blog ~

 

[eikin]

With the influx of more options here, like SMU, which specialises in certain areas only, I think they can relax on that side. Yes, we are doing well if you consider the fact that after all Singapore is a small country, I can't think of any examples of universities in small countries with a name, whether shining or not is another thing altogether.

Haha, well, I haven't been studying there, don't plan to either, but I think I know based on the gripes of friends there.

Ivy League? Need to wait pretty long.. Probably after you and me are gone, or perhaps never. I'm sorry but I don't think that dream seems attainable giving the way and direction in which it's progressing, a bit too slow and lethargic. Too much needs to be changed, with too little effort.

i think people are just being impatient and complacent at the same time. we all see the potential, yet it doesn't realise. don't know about your friends, i have my fair amount of complaints when i was in NUS, but when one puts the situation in the bigger context it's not pessimistic at all, in fact it has been very optimistic, with all the necessary hiccups along the way as the school grows and experiments. sometimes we need less doubt and just do it.

btw, i've heard lots of ''horror'' stories about how courses are run in SMU, since it's new, i guess everything's just experimental for now :bsmilie:

 

[psychobiologist]

FYI:

In the research field, especially those research institutes from biopolis.....there are two payment systems for local masters/phd grads vs overseas phd/masters grads.

Please visit NUS & NTU faculty websites and look at the prof's CV ( compare where most of the high ranking profs vs low ranking profs) ...see where most of them get their PhD from...

Then you lemme know how valued NTU and NUS paper is .

as a researcher, and as an individual who had worked in one of the leading tissue engineering labs in the states, the way they publish papers is essentially different, and there's more emphasis on quality over quantity.

if you take a dump at science direct, blackwell synergy, well you can search for papers from certain.. varsities and see how well cited these papers are. based on this, you can actually determine whether publications are trashy or real good material.

 

[blowblue]

Degree is just a paper...



An American graduate is walking down the street when he sees a Singaporean graduate with a very long pole and a measuring ruler. He's standing the pole on its
end and trying to reach the top of it with his ruler.
Seeing the local graduate's ignorance, the American graduate wrenches the pole
out of his hand, lays it on the sidewalk, measures it with the
ruler, and says, "There! 2.5 meters long."
The Singaporean graduate grabs the ruler and shouts, "You idiot American!
I don't care how long it is! I want to know how high it is"

I edited the name...not funny maybe..

 

[eikin]

Degree is just a paper...



An American graduate is walking down the street when he sees a Singaporean graduate with a very long pole and a measuring ruler. He's standing the pole on its
end and trying to reach the top of it with his ruler.
Seeing the local graduate's ignorance, the American graduate wrenches the pole
out of his hand, lays it on the sidewalk, measures it with the
ruler, and says, "There! 2.5 meters long."
The Singaporean graduate grabs the ruler and shouts, "You idiot American!
I don't care how long it is! I want to know how high it is"

I edited the name...not funny maybe..

yah, degree is just a paper. btw i thought that's a rather lousy joke, there're stupid singaporeans, but there're stupid americans too, just like there're smart people everywhere as well ... and it's not very smart to over generalise.

 

[psychobiologist]

you're being unfair here. how do we start the research programmes when we don't even have the relevant people in the first place? how many generations of researchers do we have in substantial numbers? people only keep complaining that the NUS/NTU cert. is useless, the more people complain the more useless they get. schools don't get established overnight, and there'll always be skeptics.

basically being someone who've studied both locally and overseas, i share your sentiments, but at the same time, instead of the complaining, its also interesting to note, that when it comes to life, its how good you want to be, and that people often keep limiting themselves to a paper degree that explains their worth.

maybe its singaporean. complaining and complaining.

i divide my learning into two segments, formal learning and informal learning. formal education has taught me the information that i need, informal learning teaches me how to survive in this real world and how to find myself a foothold. a tertiary education, one should focus on picking up the informal aspects than being obsessed with the formal ones.

what varsity will really teach you, is the skill to multitask, the ability to cope with stress, and the ability to cope with foreign talents competing. networking with people and many other things. many singaporeans fail to realize that. whichever university you go, local or overseas, it all applies.

 

[blowblue]

as a researcher, and as an individual who had worked in one of the leading tissue engineering labs in the states, the way they publish papers is essentially different, and there's more emphasis on quality over quantity.

if you take a dump at science direct, blackwell synergy, well you can search for papers from certain.. varsities and see how well cited these papers are. based on this, you can actually determine whether publications are trashy or real good material.

That's not my point.....my point is..that our local universities/institutes sees the local and overseas grads in different light, and they are valued differently....i am sure you are well aware of that.

What you are saying is side-tracked......of cuz...what you say is true for most professions (research field or music industry)..quality is better over quantity. Einstein got famous for writing three papers :brownian, theory of relativity and photoelectric effect when he was like in his 20s...the rest of his contributions were like meh.....

 

[blowblue]

yah, degree is just a paper. btw i thought that's a rather lousy joke, there're stupid singaporeans, but there're stupid americans too, just like there're smart people everywhere as well ... and it's not very smart to over generalise.

=_= it's just a joke..........dude...

 

[eikin]

=_= it's just a joke..........dude...

i know, just letting you know that it's a lousy joke

 

[psychobiologist]

That's not my point.....my point is..that our local universities/institutes sees the local and overseas grads in different light, and they are valued differently....i am sure you are well aware of that.

What you are saying is side-tracked......of cuz...what you say is true for most professions (research field or music industry)..quality is better over quantity. Einstein got famous for writing three papers :brownian, theory of relativity and photoelectric effect when he was like in his 20s...the rest of his contributions were like meh.....

was just commenting on the paper value in your last statement actually not anything else ;p

 

[eikin]

what varsity will really teach you, is the skill to multitask, the ability to cope with stress, and the ability to cope with foreign talents competing. networking with people and many other things. many singaporeans fail to realize that. whichever university you go, local or overseas, it all applies.

that's true. but i also think that stepping out of singapore puts one out of one's comfort zone and that's when formal and informal knowledge start to fuse ... at least for me :sweat:

 

[wainism]

Note to TS: I havent followed this thread. Just replying to your question.

Ur uni cert is just a piece of paper. It is important to a certain extent, maybe to earn you that interview. But most MNCs and huge firms these days care little for your degree. Its what you do OUTSIDE your degree that matters. And these are the things that will get you the JOB during the interview.

I studied in Spore but have many friends who studied abroad.Out of their comfort zone, forced to eek a living out.I totally support and am for the idea of studying overseas.Because it simply gives you the chance for LEARNING things that you can never STUDY.

I would advise you, if you have the financial means to do it, to go overseas for studies. Because honestly, unless you're aiming for the govt sector and want to work there in a stable but boring job all the way till you collect your CPF, then stay in spore and mug for your first class honours. Otherwise, go overseas and be truly educated.

I wish you well

One more thing, many people are concerned with the starting pay and the first job that you can get. Overseas grad may be viewed in a lesser light than local grads because many people have this microscopic view that overseas certs can be bought. But your experience and informal learning overseas will shine thru, and in the end, most of the time you will perform better and probably get a better ENDING job.

Please note the difference in LEARNING and STUDYING. Grades arent everything.

 

[dizcat]

Note to TS: I havent followed this thread. Just replying to your question.

Ur uni cert is just a piece of paper. It is important to a certain extent, maybe to earn you that interview. But most MNCs and huge firms these days care little for your degree. Its what you do OUTSIDE your degree that matters. And these are the things that will get you the JOB during the interview.

I studied in Spore but have many friends who studied abroad.Out of their comfort zone, forced to eek a living out.I totally support and am for the idea of studying overseas.Because it simply gives you the chance for LEARNING things that you can never STUDY.

I would advise you, if you have the financial means to do it, to go overseas for studies. Because honestly, unless you're aiming for the govt sector and want to work there in a stable but boring job all the way till you collect your CPF, then stay in spore and mug for your first class honours. Otherwise, go overseas and be truly educated.

I wish you well

One more thing, many people are concerned with the starting pay and the first job that you can get. Overseas grad may be viewed in a lesser light than local grads because many people have this microscopic view that overseas certs can be bought. But your experience and informal learning overseas will shine thru, and in the end, most of the time you will perform better and probably get a better ENDING job.

Please note the difference in LEARNING and STUDYING. Grades arent everything.

Agree to most extent to this but seriously, you won't sound like a frog in a well if you choose to head out to study ... Singapore is after all a small island with a population with less than 3 million and though our standards are high and respected, we don't represent the world at large ...

My 2 cents worth ...