I hate it when ppl say "its not the camera, its the person behine it"
- Thread starter TsQ
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I beg to differ......given 2 person the same camera.....who can produce winning picture? It's still the man behind the camera that matter :nono:
Now quiz time.....If Michael Schumacher sueh sueh join Alex Yoong in Minardy....both driving Minardy....who do you think will reach the checker flag first?
Now quiz time.....If Michael Schumacher sueh sueh join Alex Yoong in Minardy....both driving Minardy....who do you think will reach the checker flag first?
I'm quite sure those are just a small fraction of the pics he took with his iPhone, but he definitely only published those that can make it. Not that he won't compose anything requiring high dynamic range, just that those are probably in the recycle bin rather than on his website.
If he had took all the pics with his D3 instead, likelihood is he will have much more keepers.
Well, personally I think that statement sucks too, coz it isn't the complete picture.
However, your race car example doesn't complete the picture either.
Do u think the average driver can drive a 911 turbo and win Mike? There is a huge learning curve to driving a race car; it is not easy! U need proper race car training, practice and all. It is not just about stepping on accelerator and u will win Mike; u need to appropriate skills to negotiate bends, strategies, etc. So Mike will still win with the Cherry QQ afterall, I bet.
However, Mike isn't going to rejoice for winning the average driver with the Cherry QQ. He is a professional race driver seeking to clock a better timing year after year. He expects the best car, best engine, best gas, best tires, best team, and nothing else but the best. But why he can make such demands? Simply becoz he got the skills!
The more sensible advice is: buy a suitable camera/car based on your current skills. There is no point splurging (well, u can if u are rich enough) on a high-end camera/car when you just got into photography or if u just got your driving licence.
Once your skills have reached a certain level, then it is not too late to upgrade. More often than ever, people buy cameras/cars/rackets that exceed their skill levels. If u grow old with the hobby/sports, then it is fine. I do see people give up the hobby/sports halfway and end up selling away their wares. At that giving-up stage, the question of whether the camera or person behind is important suddenly become irrelevant.
However, your race car example doesn't complete the picture either.
Do u think the average driver can drive a 911 turbo and win Mike? There is a huge learning curve to driving a race car; it is not easy! U need proper race car training, practice and all. It is not just about stepping on accelerator and u will win Mike; u need to appropriate skills to negotiate bends, strategies, etc. So Mike will still win with the Cherry QQ afterall, I bet.
However, Mike isn't going to rejoice for winning the average driver with the Cherry QQ. He is a professional race driver seeking to clock a better timing year after year. He expects the best car, best engine, best gas, best tires, best team, and nothing else but the best. But why he can make such demands? Simply becoz he got the skills!
The more sensible advice is: buy a suitable camera/car based on your current skills. There is no point splurging (well, u can if u are rich enough) on a high-end camera/car when you just got into photography or if u just got your driving licence.
Once your skills have reached a certain level, then it is not too late to upgrade. More often than ever, people buy cameras/cars/rackets that exceed their skill levels. If u grow old with the hobby/sports, then it is fine. I do see people give up the hobby/sports halfway and end up selling away their wares. At that giving-up stage, the question of whether the camera or person behind is important suddenly become irrelevant.
If you are lousy, you are limited by your skills. So the "Its the man behind the viewfinder" logic stands.
If you are really really good, your equipments are limiting you. So its no longer the person behind the viewfinder's fault. Its the camera's fault.
I admit I belong to the lousy category. :embrass::cry:
If you are really really good, your equipments are limiting you. So its no longer the person behind the viewfinder's fault. Its the camera's fault.
I admit I belong to the lousy category. :embrass::cry:
correct me if I am wrong..but i believe you just got your 450D barely a few months back and now, you felt the equipments aint good enough for your standard and hence, you wish to upgrade everything and change of system.
perhaps, your friends really felt that you should keep what you have and upgrade your skills first, before your equipments?
it is very easy for fellow CS-ers who just scream out "BBB"..."DXX is good", "L lenses are great!"...
but they are your friends, and I am sure they do know you better than everyone here.
give them some credit to trying to help you to save some $.
perhaps, your friends really felt that you should keep what you have and upgrade your skills first, before your equipments?
it is very easy for fellow CS-ers who just scream out "BBB"..."DXX is good", "L lenses are great!"...
but they are your friends, and I am sure they do know you better than everyone here.
give them some credit to trying to help you to save some $.
now this thread starting to get more sense with this old quote... haha.. great inputs !!
(but side track a bit.. i really think if u give a normal driver like me a 911 turbo.. i can with mr mike with a cherry QQ leh... hv u all seen cherry QQ or not? top speed 130km and it takes 18.5 sec to reach 100kmh..)
(but side track a bit.. i really think if u give a normal driver like me a 911 turbo.. i can with mr mike with a cherry QQ leh... hv u all seen cherry QQ or not? top speed 130km and it takes 18.5 sec to reach 100kmh..)
Using a 911 turbo vs Cherry QQ is a little extreme.....my wife can outdrive Schumi anytime:
911 0~100 acceleration <5s......QQ probably >15s
911 top speed >200km/h and stable......QQ 120km/h and will fly if you add a wing
911 corner >100 will likely stick with all the electronics....QQ buang to donno which longkang
911 crash @ 80km/h still high chance of coming out in one piece.....QQ I don't want to imagine
:sweatsm:
911 0~100 acceleration <5s......QQ probably >15s
911 top speed >200km/h and stable......QQ 120km/h and will fly if you add a wing
911 corner >100 will likely stick with all the electronics....QQ buang to donno which longkang
911 crash @ 80km/h still high chance of coming out in one piece.....QQ I don't want to imagine
:sweatsm:
yes yes yes, indeed, as long as someone upgrades, means all keepers. there are people who have d3, go venice (one of the most beautiful places in the world)... still have nothing really worth keeping :devil:..
if they hv that intention... then i dont mind at all.. but problem is.. they are not even so much into photography but just slapping me with this infamous quote...
also i not saying i die die want to upgrade.. i am just exploring and learning while looking at what is what in this hobby... if they tell me like what u did here, i perfectly accept it... but if u keep telling me that equipment is not important at all.. then i will disagree.
basically I believe skill is still vital no matter what... and if ur skill/need matches what camera u hv then its great. If u dig my other thread, i asked about D90 as i see limitation in 450D taking indoor photos at night ... where currently i am exploring if a D90 will help or not. This is purely not "wanting" something of higher spec, rather i hv specific reason and i am researching on it. if its not worth it (like other hv suggested) then i will go try other means (flash, F1.4 lens etc like what been suggested)
i think saying that
IT IS NOT THE CAMERA OR THE PERSON, IT IS THE PLACE is even worse than IT IS NOT THE CAMERA, IT'S THE PERSON or IT IS NOT THE PERSON, IT IS THE CAMERA
which is what our dear threadstarter just did a while ago. :bsmilie:
IT IS NOT THE CAMERA OR THE PERSON, IT IS THE PLACE is even worse than IT IS NOT THE CAMERA, IT'S THE PERSON or IT IS NOT THE PERSON, IT IS THE CAMERA
which is what our dear threadstarter just did a while ago. :bsmilie:
i find that people often spend their time obsessing about the things they need 0.001% of the time most of the time.
i once knew a guy who waxed lyrical about how his d3 was the only camera in the world who could take nude girls in near complete darkness, focus accurately, and shoot relatively clean shots that could be used at iso6400 at handholdable shutter speeds.
i asked him, how often would you be doing that? and he kept quiet. :bsmilie:
in the past, people waited for the light. you didn't find so many people whining about how they were limited by equipment. were they? without a doubt.. jsut that they sucked it up, they learnt to work within their limitations.. now we find ourselves charging towards bad, low light, just to test cameras for the sake of testing them.
To TsQ, go and buy a 5DMK2 or D700 or Sony FF (see i am bias already :sticktong); don't be bothered by the high price. I can assure you that once you have either of them, you can concentrate on your photography and any grandfather quotes won't affect you.
Everybody knows that skills and experience matters behind the tool, this is obvious knowledge but some just want to be different for a while. It is fine.
Everybody knows that skills and experience matters behind the tool, this is obvious knowledge but some just want to be different for a while. It is fine.
Hey hey same with you.
I have friends who always tell me that old quote too.
However, ordinary photographers from flickr gave me inspiration.
This is what I saw online, one such person who likes photography too.
"I'm still stuck on 18-55mm.
Stayed simple, expanded creativity.
Don't mind...only embraced."
So don't mind what your friends said yea, as long as you thought over it and got a conclusion, good enough.
enjoy your photography!wow.. what a useful reply.... am i now in fault starting a thread that supposely is a "Everybody knows" topic?
its ok.. once a while we see such pointless post. It is fine.
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