how to use a film rangefinder?

[Contre-jour]

hi,thanks so much again for the help guys!really appreciate itnow i have one more question, i understand RF does not use TTL focusing(what is the term)and it's a dual image focusing... so how can that be possible if you don't look thru the lens? if the lens is not there, you can still look thru the VF am i right? abit confusing, can't find a good explanation about rangefinder's Viewfinder and their focusing (is it no TTL,different from DSLR?) pls explain...

 

[enivre]

hi,thanks so much again for the help guys!really appreciate itnow i have one more question, i understand RF does not use TTL focusing(what is the term)and it's a dual image focusing... so how can that be possible if you don't look thru the lens? if the lens is not there, you can still look thru the VF am i right? abit confusing, can't find a good explanation about rangefinder's Viewfinder and their focusing (is it no TTL,different from DSLR?) pls explain...

Oh my... you seem to have all your marbles mixed up!! ;p

In essence, there is no mirror. Thus no way for the viewfinder to "see through the lens (TTL as you put it". It focuses based on distance.

Please go and hold a rangefinder and you'll understand it. So much harder to try to explain it in words!

 

[J-Chan]

Think of it as 2 windows on the body itself, off set by a certain amount.. this forms the base of an imaginary triangle, then its just trigonometry to determine the focus..

 

[Contre-jour]

as in i want to know how if the VF is still able to be seen thru despite lens being taken out

 

[NineEleven]

I may be wrong but thought TTL (thru-the-lens metering) was developed by Nikon for SLRs? It's more for the flash usage which means if you are not shooting with flash, you don't need the TTL function.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Srono]

hi,thanks so much again for the help guys!really appreciate itnow i have one more question, i understand RF does not use TTL focusing(what is the term)and it's a dual image focusing... so how can that be possible if you don't look thru the lens? if the lens is not there, you can still look thru the VF am i right? abit confusing, can't find a good explanation about rangefinder's Viewfinder and their focusing (is it no TTL,different from DSLR?) pls explain...

TTL is normally refer to "through the lens" for metering. The term here is coupled rangefinder (compared to non-couple RF). The first Leica didn't have coupled RF.

Can make it easier to understand:
Rangefinder is a part of the rangefinder camera. In camera with coupled rangefinder (such as leica M, yashica, canonet), the lens and the rangefinder are coupled. So when you turn the focus barrel on the lens to focus, there is a mechanism to "link" lens and the rangefinder. For any camera, you can use a non-couple RF (which is similar to the FOKOS in the photo above), to find the distance from camera to the subject and use the focus scale in your lens to focus.

 

[NineEleven]

as in i want to know how if the VF is still able to be seen thru despite lens being taken out

I just had a look. Yes, you can but there's no lens for you to focus so the VF remains stationery. Not sure about those with the focusing gear on the body though. Looks like we have to study how an RF works, if you look @ the front plate of the body, there's 2-3 windows which lets light through & project the images into your VF.

I'm sure the experts can help us here.

 

[Srono]

I may be wrong but thought TTL (thru-the-lens metering) was developed by Nikon for SLRs? It's more for the flash usage which means if you are not shooting with flash, you don't need the TTL function.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

ok ok, your viewfinder/or what u get from viewfinder is still the same with/without lens.
But when u put the lens in, there is a small metal lever "connect" to the lens. When u turn the barel to focus, one part of the lens is moved -> push this metal lever. This metal lever connects to the rangefinder -> the rangefinder image moves. That is how the lens and the RF are coupled. Clear?

 

[ziploc]

When you look through the RF's viewfinder, you are not looking through the lens. Instead you are looking through the viewfinder window located above the lens. There are usually either one or two additional windows for focusing, and a prism/mirror is used to combine the images from the two windows to form the split image (if only one additional window then the viewfinder window is used as the second window for focusing). It works much like your 2 eyes, calculating the focusing distance by looking at the subject from 2 different angles and applying trigonometry (that's why it is called a rangefinder camera). For the coupled rangefinder the split images are made to align once the subject is in focus when you turn the focusing ring.

 

[Srono]

I may be wrong but thought TTL (thru-the-lens metering) was developed by Nikon for SLRs? It's more for the flash usage which means if you are not shooting with flash, you don't need the TTL function.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think it is not correct. You are confusing TTL Flash and TTL.

TTL simply means meter thru the lens. The light meter get the light from come thru the lens. That's it! You will see a lot of camera with light meter on camera body/on the lens barrel/in VF, etc.

TTL flash is about calculating amount of flash thru the lens.

 

[ziploc]

Btw, you can try this out with your RF: just look through the VF and put you hand infront of the VF window and the focusing window(s). You'll see the effect of the VF/focusing window(s).

 

[nsng]

I may be wrong but thought TTL (thru-the-lens metering) was developed by Nikon for SLRs? It's more for the flash usage which means if you are not shooting with flash, you don't need the TTL function.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hi,

TTL metering was first developed and shown in a SLR by Asahi Pentax. The model was named Pentax Spotmatic, but in actual fact it was an averaging meter, not spot. However, Topcon was the first to commercially launched the first SLR with TTL metering. The term TTL metering, through the lens, was originally used to indicate exposure measurement through the lens. The first Leica M to have TTL metering was the M5, followed by the CL. The classic M6 has TTL exposure metering. Later Leica, introduced the M6 TTL. The M6 TTL as well as the M7, incorporate TTL flash metering, i.e. metering the flash output via measurement of the flash reflected from the film plane. Therefore, if you do not need TTL flash metering, just buy the classic M6, or the MP. You can tell if the M6 is TTL or non-TTL by the number of contacts on the hotshoe. The non-TTL version has a single X-contact, while the TTL version has 4 points. I believe this TTL flash metering was first shown in the Olympus OM4.

N.S. Ng

 

[chiif]

Ok... let me do my best to explain how most of the RF cameras focus...

First take a look at this camera body...

The window at the extreme right(facing you) is call the viewfinder window. It allows you to see through the eye piece at the back of the camera.

The one beside it is the frameline illuminating patch. It lets light in so that the framelines are illuminated in the viewfinder. If you cover this patch, the framelines will disappear.

The small little window next to the frameline illuminating window is the focusing patch. If you look through the viewfinder, it's the centre rectangular patch that appears a little different from the rest of the viewfinder. On some older rangefinder, it could be yellowish in colour. As what ziploc has explained, it works by some trigonometry to get an image on focus.

When you take out the lens, there is a round little thing on the lens mount and if you move that round little thing, it actually move a mechanism in the "viewfinder assembly". When mounted with a lens on the camera body, once you get the "double image" in the viewfinder focusing patch overlaps, the image should be in focus.

It's very hard to explain everything in words & diagram... it's like explaining how Mona Lisa smiles... it's best to hold a rangefinder camera in your hands look through the viewfinder and focus. Any fifth grader should understand how it work after fiddling it for a while.

Basically, a rangefinder camera main difference from SLR or DSLR is: it does not have a mirror box in the camera body. Hence, you do not focus through the lens. Hence this (T)hrough (T)he (L)ens word is loosely connected/used. I would rather say it is NOT (W)hat (Y)ou (S)ee (I)ts (W)hat (Y)ou (G)et [WYSIWYG].

Having said that, RF cameras, is not ideal for macro & close-up shots, as minimum focusing distance is 0.7m & it's not WYSIWYG & it introduces something call parallax error for close focusing. But it is great for street and documentary type of photography. Why? Because it is small in size, subjects simply do not feel that they are pointed by a big gun! And you can open both eyes to shoot and anticipate activities OUTSIDE the frame. (Not that you can't do it with SLR, but it's easier with the RF camera).

Having used SLR and RF, personally, I feel that SLR make you place emphasis on getting the subject in focus, while RF allows you not only get the subject in focus, but also frame the picture better (using the framelines for composition). [Hard to explain how & why... just a personal feeling]

Hard to explain all the advantages, it's like describing why an apple a day keeps the doctor away... You just have to grab hold of one and start using... you might like it or hate it. It all depends on your shooting style. If you are a machine gun shooter, take no prisoners, then RF is definitely not for you.

If you are a one shot one kill... take time to compose, understand your subjects, appreciate the beautiful surroundings, talk to your subjects appreciate fine mechanical machines, then, maybe RF photography might suit you better...

 

[welspain]

it would be easier for the TS to understand thru an illustration.

SLR principle is TTL (through the lens) both for metering and viewing.

sectional view of slr camera

Whilst RF is via a rangefinder mechanism

top view of a rangefinder camera

A.Beam splitter (semitransparent mirror)
B.Light-gathering window
C.Framelines projection/parallax compensation unit
D.Framelines projection semitransparent mirror
E.Rotating mirror/pentaprism
F.Viewfinder
G.Viewfinder frame
H.Static Image
I.Secondary Image

 

[third3rdwheel]

hi,thanks so much again for the help guys!really appreciate itnow i have one more question, i understand RF does not use TTL focusing(what is the term)and it's a dual image focusing... so how can that be possible if you don't look thru the lens? if the lens is not there, you can still look thru the VF am i right? abit confusing, can't find a good explanation about rangefinder's Viewfinder and their focusing (is it no TTL,different from DSLR?) pls explain...

Hi,

These are pages from the famous book by Gunter Osterloh (unfortunately out of print now) which you may wish to read, in addition to the excellent explanation offered by the various rangefinder users on this forum.

 

[third3rdwheel]

This is the Osterloh book cover.

 

[NineEleven]

Woohoo! Lots of information here for newbies like me & the diagrams are very useful. Thank you very much.

 

[greg]

... once you know how to use a RF, perhaps take a breather and think about what you want to use a RF for?

perhaps to capture that magical moment in the most inconspicuous way possible? How best to do that with your camera just like the way you'd blink your eye and have the shot taken? I bet a RF would do this job better than SLRs and one of the techniques I often use is

ZONE FOCUSSING... think of it like allowing you to prefocus your subject within the range in which your subject will be in focus, thus not waiting time and risking disturbing your subject. What's left is for you to just 'pull the trigger' and capture the moment like you would by blinking your eye, naturally.

Once you master Zone Focussing, explore other techniques like hyperfocussing, most importantly, you'd be amazed where you're a step closer to be in more control of the kinda of shot you set yourself up to take, simple elegance. You'd be amazed how your humble RF using these basic technique can yield unbelievable results.

Have fun.

 

[enivre]

I think I must be really untalented, if not dense!

I have used Leica M equipment (several Leica Ms - analogue) for quite a few years. I believe I know how to use techniques like zone or hyperfocussing. Yes, such techniques can be rather nifty and useful in certain circumstances. But to me, such techniques have yet to give me "unbelievable" results. Well, maybe different people have different expectations. Sadly, for me, my rangefinder cameras have yet to transform and elevate my photography to "unbelievable" heights.

I don't think any camera system can "transform and elevate my photography to "unbelievable" heights."

By the way, I believe you can zone focus and hyper focus even on an SLR. It's not limited to RFs.

 

[enivre]

Yes, I agree.

I am just amazed at the claims/statements that suggest that using certain equipment and techniques can yield unbelievable results.

Yes, in fact I think if your foundations are unsound changing over to an RF (or any other manual camera) might make your photography even worse if you don't know what you are doing!