GreenLight :: Kseniya ::

[Kongo]

Yo jemapela,

Thanks for spending time to write such a lengthy explanation on your thoughts, really appreciate it. No worry man, I don't see u picking on me at all, rather what I see is that you are encouraging me to step forward, move on and trying to guide me to the path.. thanks a lot for your tips, will certainly keep in mind.


At the moment, photography still looks very much like an hobby to me and I havent really seriously tot of changing that yet, but I guess I will still gradually try to shift more attention to those areas that you hv pointed out for further self developments & improvements.. your points are very valid for all photogs that have professionalism in mind, thanks for sharing!


The followings are probably not the main points you are driving at, reply just for the sake of clarifications:

-Regarding 5D vs 350D: I hv hang on with 350D for a very long while and once tot that I'll live happily ever after.. hahaa.. but eventually as I progressed some limitations of the 350D started to affect me and I think that I hv upgraded after serious tots.. the processed image of the 2 cams dun look much diff perhaps, but when using with a large aperture prime, the focusing hit rate of the 350D is really much worse than the 5D. As I use shallow DOF most of the time when it miss focus the shot can just go down to the recycle bin.. when the lightings are less perfect I can get something like 30% less hits from a 350D comparing with the 5D. In the past I will just shrug my shoulder and delete those OOF pics.. but eventually when I placed more tots into my shots, it becomes more and more annoying that something I wanted to execute turn out to be unusable beocs I only notice that the focusing is off after uploading the pics to computer.. the difference in this aspect is not subtle actually. At certain situattion I can take 3 continuous shots with the 350D all misses while the 5D all hits.. And the 5D does hv better headroom in ISO speed and also better headroom for processing by producing more natural skin tone prior to pp..

-85f1.2L vs 85f1.8 .. hahaa.. I dunno, owned the smaller brother b4, I always tot that the L version produces images that has that little more subtle smoothening magic that I find it hard to explain thru words.. probably nothing to do with sharpness that chart measures.. but this could very well be psychological.. well, guess it could be right that if I show 2 image to my wife she might not be able to tell the diff.. she'll kill me tho if she knows the price diff.. :bsmilie: maybe hobbyist like me don't justify purchasing decision solely on commercial returns and value.. part of the satisfaction are derived from the "shiokness" of actually owning one.. :bsmilie:

- On the organiser.. I think he has provided great help and guidance to many new and younger photogs here and offer a very good window to let us hv an understanding on how professional images are created.. I benefit a lot from such sessions especially from his since I started joining photoshoot last year..
:thumbsup:
well, for the creativity part I think it's very subjective, perhaps it would be more appropriate if individual photog can attempt to execute their creativity during their solo effort than trying to achive it in a group shoot.

Thanks again for your input!!

Hi Kongo,

I had a hidden reason for asking you about what camera/lens you were using, especially after seeing your technically good and beautiful images, and your relunctance about compiling them into a photo book.

Now, I'll tell you why. You, or others may disagree with me, but that's fine. I hope you don't see me as picking on you.

The biggest mistake with many CS members is that they chase after the biggest and latest gear (1D Mk III or f/1.0 lens) when instead they should be chasing after a better image. Unlike spontaneous event shoots, when you are shooting a posed subject that allows you to style and direct such as portraits, more resources and effort should be put into making a better image.

Don't get me wrong. It appears that you can shoot technically good images with the right exposures and composition. Your portraits of Kanny and Kseniya are beautiful (apart from the fact that both girls are pretty.) However, if you display Kanny's and Kseniya's images side by side, nobody can visually tell which camera was used. 350D, 20D or 5D, nobody really knows (maybe because they are all DIGIC II image processors). The output images from these cameras are so similar, you just can't tell which camera. To be absolutely critical, the 5D should produce slightly softer images because of its larger pixel size than 20D and 350D, but really, can you see it? Similarly, if you had used the 85mm f/1.8 lens and shot it wide open or nearly wide open, I'm confident that nobody would be able to tell the difference with your f/1.2L lens because, as best as I know, both lenses have very circular apertures hence their bokehs are similar.

In another thread regarding the 85mm f/1.8 lens, I mentioned that I measured its resolving power, and it measures to the highest reading that the resolution chart can measure, just like with other L series prime lenses. I doubt the f/1.2L lens is sharper. Even if it is, the human eye is unlikely to detect the difference. Personally, I have used the f/1.2L lens before and I own the f/1.8 version but I could be visually handicapped. Most people forget, or are unaware, that very large aperture lenses evitably suffer from undesirable optical phenomena such as internal flaring which could soften or wash-out images, and more effort is required to minimise/eliminate such flaws. Hence, the super fast L series prime lens may not be necessarily sharper than its smaller f/1.8 brother.

No doubt, a group shoot is a more affordable way of shooting portraits of models but it offers less control over styling and direction. Individual attention to each photographer is also reduced or compromised. Yes, I know that not everyone is able to afford the cost of hiring a model alone but the advantage of being able to hone your styling and directing skills is worth serious consideration. At group shoots, the organiser does this thus the participant photographer learns little or nothing. Sometimes, the organiser himself isn't good at doing it because he is just profit motivated, not creativity motivated. I have absolutely nothing against the model organiser but if I observed correctly, he has planned several shoots mostly/always in clubbing and casual themes. The recipe is always the same. His models are Caucasians who are, generally or presumably, more open-minded. Why not shoot another theme/genre?

On that note, the flavour of these photos has also remained the same - pretty girl smiling in the park (or somewhere nice) wearing fashion (or casual) with nice bokeh and wind machine. Take away that f/1.2L lens and wind machine. Would your image magic disappear? Kongo, I say again, your images look good, but you can take a step forward and further.

My point in this lengthy explanation is: if some of us could realise that the high expense of top-end equipment is actually unnecessary and provides little improvement in the image quality, then financial resources could be diverted into what is truely more important - beautifying the resulting image.

Spend more money on styling or accessorising on a good model. Spend more money on reaching a beautiful location. When the images look as good as say, your shots of beautiful Kseniya in this series, then spend money on compiling these images into a high quality photo book that you could proudly show off. Come on, it's only $200-$300 compared to the thousands you spent on equipment. Carry this book around to show. Flipping pages of a book is a lot easier and faster to show in public. Remember, it's all about the image... make it look better, and present it better.

Kongo, with a photo book of nice images shown around, your name/brand could go further than the just the ClubSnap audience.

Just 2-cents worth of encouragement from a so-so photographer.

 

[Jemapela]

-Regarding 5D vs 350D: I hv hang on with 350D for a very long while and once tot that I'll live happily ever after.. hahaa.. but eventually as I progressed some limitations of the 350D started to affect me and I think that I hv upgraded after serious tots.. the processed image of the 2 cams dun look much diff perhaps, but when using with a large aperture prime, the focusing hit rate of the 350D is really much worse than the 5D. As I use shallow DOF most of the time when it miss focus the shot can just go down to the recycle bin.. when the lightings are less perfect I can get something like 30% less hits from a 350D comparing with the 5D. In the past I will just shrug my shoulder and delete those OOF pics.. but eventually when I placed more tots into my shots, it becomes more and more annoying that something I wanted to execute turn out to be unusable beocs I only notice that the focusing is off after uploading the pics to computer.. the difference in this aspect is not subtle actually. At certain situattion I can take 3 continuous shots with the 350D all misses while the 5D all hits.. And the 5D does hv better headroom in ISO speed and also better headroom for processing by producing more natural skin tone prior to pp..

Ahh... yes... I forgot that you use shallow DOF often. My apologies for that. I know that the AF success rate for the 350D (and other lower end EOS DSLR) isn't as high as the 5D. In other words, the AF errors are more. In your case, I understand the need to upgrade. Shooting with wide open apertures just won't work well with 350D.

My day job is involves me getting intimate with the insides (not the outsides) of Canon and Nikon DSLRs, and some lenses. If I'm correct, 5D, 20D and 30D have very similar or the same AF success rate. Many things in the 5D were, sort of, copied and pasted from the milestone 20D, same like the 30D.

-85f1.2L vs 85f1.8 .. hahaa.. I dunno, owned the smaller brother b4, I always tot that the L version produces images that has that little more subtle smoothening magic that I find it hard to explain thru words.. probably nothing to do with sharpness that chart measures.. but this could very well be psychological.. well, guess it could be right that if I show 2 image to my wife she might not be able to tell the diff.. she'll kill me tho if she knows the price diff.. :bsmilie: maybe hobbyist like me don't justify purchasing decision solely on commercial returns and value.. part of the satisfaction are derived from the "shiokness" of actually owning one.. :bsmilie:

It's really easy to suspect that many CS members chase for the biggest and latest equipment for the "shiokness" of owning one. Personally, I use a more shameless term, the "big d#ck syndrome" which we know men are obsessed with. Men always want to look bigger and better than their peers.

I don't know if you shoot wide open at f/1.2 but I doubt it. If you don't shoot at f/1.2, then the softness/smoothness of the bokeh shouldn't be much different from the smaller f/1.8 brother at the same aperture simply because the apertures are both circular. Then, probably, the only real advantage of the massive f/1.2L brother is the 1 extra stop in speed.

Thanks again for your input!!

You're welcome.

 

[airfins]

Hi Kongo,
.........Carry this book around to show. Flipping pages of a book is a lot easier and faster to show in public. Remember, it's all about the image... make it look better, and present it better.

Kongo, with a photo book of nice images shown around, your name/brand could go further than the just the ClubSnap audience.

Just 2-cents worth of encouragement from a so-so photographer.

Great shots in an amazing series.:thumbsup: CS has about 50000 members, if only 10% get to see this pictures thats 5000 viewer. I wonder how long and how much effort it will takes to show it in a book to 5000 people on the street. Don't get me wrong, personally I like the idea of having all my best shots printed in a book. CS does provide a broader and easier way of reaching out to the masses of like mind people.

 

[Jemapela]

Great shots in an amazing series.:thumbsup: CS has about 50000 members, if only 10% get to see this pictures thats 5000 viewer. I wonder how long and how much effort it will takes to show it in a book to 5000 people on the street. Don't get me wrong, personally I like the idea of having all my best shots printed in a book. CS does provide a broader and easier way of reaching out to the masses of like mind people.

I think I didn't explain this clearly enough. I'm sorry.

I used the word "further", and it refers to an audience from beyond ClubSnap, that is, non ClubSnap members. ClubSnap members are mostly photographers who rival each other beneath the facade of comraderie/brotherhood.

Compiling his best images into a photo book to show around has some advantage over attempting to lead people to a website. If you're gutsy enough to approach someone in the face, or if you happen to meet someone who is keen to model, passing them a web address is more likely to fail because there is a delay before they get to a computer to view it. During this time, people are likely to:

1) lose the namecard or destroy it in the washing machine
2) lose their intiate "wow" and forget to check the web

Flipping pages is easier and quicker if you approach or meet in the face, and it strengthens the chance of a positive response compared to handing out a web address. This, I speak from experience.

Still on the topic of "further", Kongo can display his work on the web but not on ClubSnap, SG Photography, SG Shooters, Canongraphers, or whatever photography forum where members are just rival photographers. He could display his work in a photographer's profile on a modeling website such as One Model Place and Net Model. These are the biggest of their kind in the world based on membership numbers but not many S'poreans are on them. Still, I doubt ClubSnap would have more models lurking around regularly.

A photographer's profile on such a website can be easily searched, and is not lost over time as in a forum thread. Most importantly, his exposure goes to many models because it's really a model source website. These sites also have forums for discussion, and there, photographers get even more exposure to models. Some models may travel to Singapore and send a notification that they are coming, and you may engage them for photography. Some even write to you to inform or invite you to work with them. This again, I speak from experience.

Yes, you said it right to say "CS does provide a broader and easier way of reaching out to the masses of like mind people". The like-minded people are photographers. If Kongo aspires to have models and potential clients dream of his name, then CS isn't the best place. I emphasise the word again, "further".

PS: I'm only explaining my opinion, not picking a fight.

 

[Kongo]

Chill guys.. hahaa..

Airfins, thanks for your comments!


Jemapela, thanks for the suggestions! will check out the links..