Erica Lai

[Deadpoet]

(A) Let me be polite, and rephrase your comments for you.

Perhaps what you really meant was that these imageries do not appeal to you. And because they do not appeal to you, you do not understand why she was given certain accolades?
...

Let me be polite also, please refrain from rephrasing my comments, it's not a very polite thing to do.

...

(B) Or maybe I should be as blunt as you, and say what is in my mind.

1 Erica makes images for herself. You make images to please the models. There is a world of difference between the world view of people like Erica and yourself.

Erica images stand different. How are your images?

2 I assume that you do not understand what she was trying to say in her images.

What were you trying to say in the images of Bree? That she is beautiful and sensuous? Why say something that is already so obvious?

My images are of a genre that is most attempted in the history of art - portraitures of beautiful women. I chose it because I like it. I don't have to be different, I have to get better.

And to be very blunt, I shoot sex and sensuality. These are my images and I am proud of them. At this stage, I do not want to be different and see no need to, all I am striving for is to make the model even more sensual than they already are.

Why do I have to say the obvious, because that is what I want to say. I don't feel the need to have to photograph women in such a way that no one understands what I want to say, and then call it art, and call those who cannot understand, because there is noththing to understand, ignorant, narrow minded or even close minded.

I shoot beautiful models. I want to present her in her full glory, full of sexuality and sensuality. I am stating the obvious, and I want to state the obvious!

Pleasing the model, I please myself, but I do look to the model's judgement of the final image. She is the harshest critic of them all. If she does not like it, she doesn't, but if she does, I feel good about it. So, is there a problem?

...
3 You said you did not know how to appreciate the images. Have you consider the possibility that "A photograph is a mirror. If an ass peers into it, you cannot expect an apostle to look out?"

Sorry, I do not see the photograph as a mirror.

I know you do. So, you can deal with the ass and apostle thing, I don't.

...
5 Erica images look at the non events. The banal.

I see her trying to make beautiful images of nothing.

I see the possibility of diptych with two different images coming together to make a third.

I see symbolic associations.

To those whose minds and souls are unfettered, I see possible reactions to emotional microcosms within these images.

I see tension and an edge in these images that will reward those who will allow the images to speak to them.

Of course, they should shed their pre-conceived ideas of what images should be. How can a cup receive if it already so full of itself?

I see in Erica Lai's photographs, an attempt to create something out of nothing, and ended up still with nothing. I see her falling into the trap, make something no one really understands, and therefore, they cannot criticise, or even more appropriately, they don't know how to criticise.

This is a perfect trap. Majority of the people, who don't understand the image, are too afraid to say they don't understand, and since they don't understand, it must be art, and they don't want to be seen blind to art. What a beautiful trap.

Am I speaking for everyone, no, I am not that self deluded. But, show her picture to the masses, and let them decide. Again, how are you so sure everyone will like and appreciate Ms Lai's work?

Again, art, the most important audience is the artist himself/herself. The second most important audience is the masses, not the fellow artists or the chosen few.

Mozart, one of the greatest composer of all time, was then considered by the emperor and the court/court composers, who were the chosen audience at the time, to be too brash, to pop, too mass oriented. Well, go figure!

 

[projekts]

sorry to say ... her photograhy ... I just cannot find another word to stand in for "SUCKS".

for these images, she becomes 100 outstanding youth under 25? whom did she bribe?

no one understand what she wanted to say with these pictures! I don't even know how to appreciate it. to me, these images are typical of wannabes who demonstrated a self delusion of granduer.

When we see something we can't appreciate, we don't judge.

She has her own point and idea for shooting the way she did and base on what ground do you think you can throw in judgement like that?

Because you are some PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER who are earning big bucks, while that girl is just an aspiring artist?

And who do you think you are, to judge someone's character or personality like that?
I had never want to get myself engaged in cyber war like this, but I do feel that your comments are too harsh and too personal...

BTW, why do you sound so sore about she being 100 outstanding youth under 25?
OK, i do not want to know more details, might bring back some bad memories for you...

 

[StreetShooter]

Well, I dunno. I kinda like the photos. They have a certain moodiness which is appealing. As B&S said, it's just the "feel".

 

[Deadpoet]

When we see something we can't appreciate, we don't judge.

She has her own point and idea for shooting the way she did and base on what ground do you think you can throw in judgement like that?

Because you are some PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER who are earning big bucks, while that girl is just an aspiring artist?

And who do you think you are, to judge someone's character or personality like that?
I had never want to get myself engaged in cyber war like this, but I do feel that your comments are too harsh and too personal...

BTW, why do you sound so sore about she being 100 outstanding youth under 25?
OK, i do not want to know more details, might bring back some bad memories for you...

When we see something we cannot appreciate, we judged already.

I throw in judgement as the audience. She failed.

Don't make personal attacks before you know what you are attacking.

Who am I? I am the audience when I openned the website. Am I too harsh, that is debatable. Am I being personal, not really, I am criticising her photography not her person.

I absolutely do not believe her art/works deserve the recognition she got.

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

nice but where did you get this 100 outstanding phtographer link?

i read up on her during Sunday times and bookmarked her thread many moons ago, yesterday i was looking for some work to inspire me and thought to share all these with you.

At least i made some people enjoy.:bsmilie:

 

[SniperD]

i read up on her during Sunday times and bookmarked her thread many moons ago, yesterday i was looking for some work to inspire me and thought to share all these with you.

At least i made some people enjoy.:bsmilie:

hahaha... I think the Mods wlll be moving in soon also...;p

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

I am criticising her photography not her person.

.

you insulted the person by saying this

whom did she bribe

 

[student]

Let me be polite also, please refrain from rephrasing my comments, it's not a very polite thing to do.

I apologise. From now on, I will take your comments and deal with them straight on.

My images are of a genre that is most attempted in the history of art - portraitures of beautiful women. I chose it because I like it. I don't have to be different, I have to get better.

And to be very blunt, I shoot sex and sensuality. These are my images and I am proud of them. At this stage, I do not want to be different and see no need to, all I am striving for is to make the model even more sensual than they already are.

Why do I have to say the obvious, because that is what I want to say. I don't feel the need to have to photograph women in such a way that no one understands what I want to say, and then call it art, and call those who cannot understand, because there is noththing to understand, ignorant, narrow minded or even close minded.

I shoot beautiful models. I want to present her in her full glory, full of sexuality and sensuality. I am stating the obvious, and I want to state the obvious!

Pleasing the model, I please myself, but I do look to the model's judgement of the final image. She is the harshest critic of them all. If she does not like it, she doesn't, but if she does, I feel good about it. So, is there a problem?

No there is not problem at all. That is what you wanted to "say". So be it. There are always different ways of looking at things.

But Erica wanted to say something about the banal. Just because it does not appeal to you, and does not make sense to you, makes her images sucks?

You wanted to say the obvious. That is fine.

Erica chose to say something that is not obvious to you. Is that not OK with you?

Freedom of expression even though you and others cannot understand or see it?

No?

Sorry, I do not see the photograph as a mirror.

I know you do. So, you can deal with the ass and apostle thing, I don't.

We disagree then.

To me, life and art are linked irrevocably. If one have not seen death, then death is meaningless.

The issue of ass and apostle is not a derogatory analogy. But an illustration that one can see only when one has the capacity and willingness to see.

I see in Erica Lai's photographs, an attempt to create something out of nothing, and ended up still with nothing. I see her falling into the trap, make something no one really understands, and therefore, they cannot criticise, or even more appropriately, they don't know how to criticise.

Hence my reference to the ass and the apostle.

This is a perfect trap. Majority of the people, who don't understand the image, are too afraid to say they don't understand, and since they don't understand, it must be art, and they don't want to be seen blind to art. What a beautiful trap.

That is your perspective, and some others.

Are you not creating a trap of your own?

I think you are being unreasonable when you said, "too afraid to say they don't understand,etc". So just because you do not understand, others must be like you and do not understand? And you are trying to second guess the thinking for others?

Am I speaking for everyone, no, I am not that self deluded.

No? I am not referring to spelling.

You wrote "no one understands". Now do you not think that "no one" is rather encompassing and inclusive?

Who is "no one"?

Again, how are you so sure everyone will like and appreciate Ms Lai's work?

Where did I say that everyone will like her work? Please do not put words into my mouth.

No works by anyone will please "everyone". Please!

But at least right in this thread there are already some (B&S, myself, SS, etc) who already like the images - making your comment "no one" an absolute nonsense.

Again, art, the most important audience is the artist himself/herself. The second most important audience is the masses, not the fellow artists or the chosen few.

So Erica chose to please herself first. And that is not OK?

And Brett Weston chose to please fellow artists and "chosen few" than the masses. I can name a lot more photographers who chose to please themselves and seek the approval of peers than the masses.

So your idea that the second most important audience is the masses holds water? Many well known photographers will not agree with you. Of course you can disagree with them. Freedom of speech and ideas.

But whose opinions matter? Really matters?

Are we selling lollipops?

Mozart, one of the greatest composer of all time, was then considered by the emperor and the court/court composers, who were the chosen audience at the time, to be too brash, to pop, too mass oriented. Well, go figure!

And Tchaikovsky Violin concerto was not mass oriented enough. Well, go figure that out!

 

[kelccm]

To me there is always 2 sides of the coin in art. A piece of art can be seen as a masterpiece by some people, while the same piece of art can be seen as rubbish by other people. Art is a form of emotion, and it is different for different people. Art is a form of communication, either you get or you don't, or you just get a totally different understanding. So it is understandable that art can attract praise or the harshest criticism. DP is entitled to his harsh criticism, so there is no need to attack his comments, and likewise for the others.

While I do dabble a bit in music and photography, I don't consider myself as an arty person. So my view of Erica's work is rubbish. I just can't get anything from her image. What others think of her work is their problem, this is what I feel. Another example, Van Gogh is highly regarded as an artist, and his works are world renowned. But to me, his paintings are rubbish also. What is honey to others can be a poison to me.

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

To me there is always 2 sides of the coin in art. A piece of art can be seen as a masterpiece by some people, while the same piece of art can be seen as rubbish by other people. Art is a form of emotion, and it is different for different people. Art is a form of communication, either you get or you don't, or you just get a totally different understanding. So it is understandable that art can attract praise or the harshest criticism. DP is entitled to his harsh criticism, so there is no need to attack his comments, and likewise for the others.

While I do dabble a bit in music and photography, I don't consider myself as an arty person. So my view of Erica's work is rubbish. I just can't get anything from her image. What others think of her work is their problem, this is what I feel. Another example, Van Gogh is highly regarded as an artist, and his works are world renowned. But to me, his paintings are rubbish also. What is honey to others can be a poison to me.

there is a fine line between criticism and insult, as i pointed out DP has already insulted the person without knowing the person. DP is infact rude and callous, and does not offer my respect or views.

 

[student]

DP is entitled to his harsh criticism, so there is no need to attack his comments, and likewise for the others.

I am afraid that I cannot let this get away without a retort.

Nobody says that DP cannot give his harshest criticisms to any photograph. That is his right, and I will defend his right to his opinion.

But in my opinion, DP crossed the boundary by making these comments

1 "Sucks". Comments can be harsh, but tasteless? Sure. Freedom of expression.

2 Making his opinion the opinion of the masses.

"No one understands". I do.

3 Indulging in making personal attacks on Erica

"whom did she bribe?"
"wannabe"
"sel-delusion of grandeur".

4 Insulting other photographers by insinuating that we pretend to know when we actually do not know.

DP had clearly ventured beyond giving his opinions to being crude, soliticious, and making personal attacks on Erica.

I have absolutely no idea who Erica is. But I think DP owes her an aoplogy.

 

[solarii]

What if these sets of photos were posted in ClubSNAP by a "newbie" account? I wonder if we would see comments with terms like "deep", "nice", "deceivingly deep dimension" or even the mentioning of the word "art"?

Can the guys who appreciate her work please enlighten a layman like me what is deep, beautiful or appealing of this shot:

http://mugmao.thekitchenweb.com/ed4.htm


Thanks.

Honestly if it were posted by a newbie acc. I doubt anyone would even comment. But since the person has a website and supposedly has some credentials, I just list it as "too deep for my understanding".

Personally, I won't consider comments like "deep" a compliment. Its just a nice way of saying "I don't like it, maybe someone else might"

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

Honestly if it were posted by a newbie acc. I doubt anyone would even comment. But since the person has a website and supposedly has some credentials, I just list it as "too deep for my understanding".

Personally, I won't consider comments like "deep" a compliment. Its just a nice way of saying "I don't like it, maybe someone else might"

when this person was a newbie i already took interest in her works

http://bigbluesky.typepad.com/let_there_be_light/black_and_white/

infact, call me a sucker but i like works where people pour out their feelings to shoot, not just shoot meat.

 

[SniperD]

when this person was a newbie i already took interest in her works

http://bigbluesky.typepad.com/let_there_be_light/black_and_white/

hahaha... I was just about to quote and link Jen's blog site here too...

hear hear... wonders where she is now ...

 

[black.ink]

i read up on her during Sunday times and bookmarked her thread many moons ago, yesterday i was looking for some work to inspire me and thought to share all these with you.

At least i made some people enjoy.:bsmilie:

before jumping to conclusion, i think the crux of the matter is, mind specify where this "Top 100 under 25" statement 'sourced' from? :think:

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

hahaha... I was just about to quote and link Jen's blog site here too...

hear hear... wonders where she is now ...

yes, she not been posting for a while but i really like her eye for things, chairs, the fruit seller :thumbsup: stuff.

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

before jumping to conclusion, i think the crux of the matter is, mind specify where this "Top 100 under 25" statement 'sourced' from? :think:

Straits Times last year

i do not think its the crux of the matter, the matter is if you like here work or not, which some people do not and became defensive when they do not understand/try to understand.

 

[Canonised]

I am afraid that I cannot let this get away without a retort.

Nobody says that DP cannot give his harshest criticisms to any photograph. That is his right, and I will defend his right to his opinion.

But in my opinion, DP crossed the boundary by making these comments

1 "Sucks". Comments can be harsh, but tasteless? Sure. Freedom of expression.

2 Making his opinion the opinion of the masses.

"No one understands". I do.

3 Indulging in making personal attacks on Erica

"whom did she bribe?"
"wannabe"
"sel-delusion of grandeur".

4 Insulting other photographers by insinuating that we pretend to know when we actually do not know.

DP had clearly ventured beyond giving his opinions to being crude, soliticious, and making personal attacks on Erica.

I have absolutely no idea who Erica is. But I think DP owes her an aoplogy.

Aiya .... your case is like a Teacher and one of his bad students (irony :sweat: )
I thought by now this teacher should know how this "bad student" behaves here .... just like himself. Personally i like his views which are honest and true/accurate but like many here, I don't like his expression ... too crude and impolite. If he was born long ago, he would definately be the boy who said "the emperor wore no clothe"... As much as we hated, i think it is important and "good" to hear DP as he normally will let us think deeper of what we are thinking. Luckily we dont have many like DP here.
Someone once told me .... a "gangster" may badmouth or appears tough, but inside him is really someone with a soft heart ...:heart: Long live DP!:lovegrin:

 

[Jango]

when this person was a newbie i already took interest in her works

http://bigbluesky.typepad.com/let_there_be_light/black_and_white/

infact, call me a sucker but i like works where people pour out their feelings to shoot, not just shoot meat.

At least this is something I can connect with and appreciate. But not Erica's works though.

 

[Jango]

Honestly if it were posted by a newbie acc. I doubt anyone would even comment. But since the person has a website and supposedly has some credentials, I just list it as "too deep for my understanding".

Why the different treatment? Maybe you've just proven DP's point (I think!)