Its the effort that counts ya... Though sometimes is subjective, the series of threads does gives some insightful pointers (though not very well delivered). Kudos!
CS "critics" suck?
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I do agreed..
Some critics here are pretty harsh, I am surprise Leejay take it all with pinch of salt.
Got to admire the courage for all this and mindset on improving.
Also why my friend never post his pics online.
He always tell me, critics gives comments on your pics, but can they themselves take a better pic? If yes, then he got nothing to say. I have such mindset too, but now I think if majority of the people do not find the pic ok, then something must be wrong, and how I can improve. Composition, lighting, the subject? Get closer? Crop tighter?
Leejay, take more, but post only those winning shots. I have many crappy pics, but I post process a few that I think is good. Everyone takes lousy shots, but they never post them, they limit the shortlist the good ones.
Also your pics too much for people to really give constructive comments. (leecher may luv it)
eg. this thread - http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=226563
I do take the effort to PS the pic - to show my point of view. (It was like 1:30am in the night)
Poster limited his pics to a few well taken ones, I find - ok, I could do something to the original pic to express my view.
Also you can't please everyone too, one man food could be other poison. Take more, practise more..
Read more books, magazines esp samples on those winning images. (for your case playboy, penthouse, FHM) One day people will admire your pics for what they are, rather than the chio chio bikini clad gal.
Anyway Veron is so chio chio.. I wan to join her shoot in future..
Some critics here are pretty harsh, I am surprise Leejay take it all with pinch of salt.
Got to admire the courage for all this and mindset on improving.
Also why my friend never post his pics online.
He always tell me, critics gives comments on your pics, but can they themselves take a better pic? If yes, then he got nothing to say. I have such mindset too, but now I think if majority of the people do not find the pic ok, then something must be wrong, and how I can improve. Composition, lighting, the subject? Get closer? Crop tighter?
Leejay, take more, but post only those winning shots. I have many crappy pics, but I post process a few that I think is good. Everyone takes lousy shots, but they never post them, they limit the shortlist the good ones.
Also your pics too much for people to really give constructive comments. (leecher may luv it)
eg. this thread - http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=226563
I do take the effort to PS the pic - to show my point of view. (It was like 1:30am in the night)
Poster limited his pics to a few well taken ones, I find - ok, I could do something to the original pic to express my view.
Also you can't please everyone too, one man food could be other poison. Take more, practise more..
Read more books, magazines esp samples on those winning images. (for your case playboy, penthouse, FHM) One day people will admire your pics for what they are, rather than the chio chio bikini clad gal.
Anyway Veron is so chio chio.. I wan to join her shoot in future..
The types of CS critics -
1. Some critics who only say "your images suck big time,", trash them, etc.. and not showing any examples of what make a good image - are these critics justify to make comments?
2. Some critics who keep complaining about other critics, as in the above category and not doing anything - do they have a reason ?
3. Some critics who "hunt" for their fav critics so that they can have a go at criticising those critics whom they dont see eye to eye - are they the real critics?
4. Some so-called pro critics who want to bring out all those world-famous images / photographers to show the newbies what constitute a good image - are they practical or r they just showing off?
5. Some photographers who can shoot good images but refuse to criticise - because they dont know how to criticise?, because they are selfish?, because they dont want to offend their friends?, etc...
6. Some who know that the posted images suck big time and yet keep quiet - r they doing the right thing?
7. Some who know that the posted images suck big time and yet they praise the Poster for such "fantastic" photos - r they real friends?
8. Some who dont know anything about photography but seem to be expert in a photo critic - are they naturally born critics?
:think:
1. Some critics who only say "your images suck big time,", trash them, etc.. and not showing any examples of what make a good image - are these critics justify to make comments?
2. Some critics who keep complaining about other critics, as in the above category and not doing anything - do they have a reason ?
3. Some critics who "hunt" for their fav critics so that they can have a go at criticising those critics whom they dont see eye to eye - are they the real critics?
4. Some so-called pro critics who want to bring out all those world-famous images / photographers to show the newbies what constitute a good image - are they practical or r they just showing off?
5. Some photographers who can shoot good images but refuse to criticise - because they dont know how to criticise?, because they are selfish?, because they dont want to offend their friends?, etc...
6. Some who know that the posted images suck big time and yet keep quiet - r they doing the right thing?
7. Some who know that the posted images suck big time and yet they praise the Poster for such "fantastic" photos - r they real friends?
8. Some who dont know anything about photography but seem to be expert in a photo critic - are they naturally born critics?
:think:
So calling people's photo "Sucks" is refined language?
So do you expect people o take you seriously if you use language like that?
Trash belongs to pigs. Do you not think pigs and trash belongs together? A person is known by what comes out of him.
And fishmonger's wives have bad language? Wow! You said it!
I don't know what you guys are complaining about but his pictures have just made my night....
hahahah
oh I love photography.
hahahah
oh I love photography.
I posted my reply there so kind of lazy to repost here.
I used to have a good female friend of mine that commented such how on my pic.
I get upset whenever I hear like this pic looks sux.. hey tis and tat.
One fine day I just blasted her off when not so nice words. Oh well, after that she did
not ever bother to comment on my pics ever. I suppose I should not have even sent
her pics I took after that. She won't even bother to view that in a neutral, perspective way.
Now my mindset some sort of change, yes, people comment, but with feedback why it sux. So you can improve and see from the critics point of view. But subjectly you have to see, well if the pic will justify the new adjustment?
We can't please everyone, just getting the pic to looks good to majority is the battle won.
* Recently I attend a lesson by Ian Lloyd, he took a MM Lee photo - show to us, and someone commented if the composition and stuffs if do this way will be better?
Ian (politely) shut him off "It does look good to me, anyway this pic has been used many times by magazines.."
So there, people just can't stop shooting their mouth off. Mouth are to be heard, but whether you want to hear or not, its up to you. Ie to me, constructive stuffs, I absorbed and even take notes, others? Into my recycle bin, never to resurface..
I used to have a good female friend of mine that commented such how on my pic.
I get upset whenever I hear like this pic looks sux.. hey tis and tat.
One fine day I just blasted her off when not so nice words. Oh well, after that she did
not ever bother to comment on my pics ever. I suppose I should not have even sent
her pics I took after that. She won't even bother to view that in a neutral, perspective way.
Now my mindset some sort of change, yes, people comment, but with feedback why it sux. So you can improve and see from the critics point of view. But subjectly you have to see, well if the pic will justify the new adjustment?
We can't please everyone, just getting the pic to looks good to majority is the battle won.
* Recently I attend a lesson by Ian Lloyd, he took a MM Lee photo - show to us, and someone commented if the composition and stuffs if do this way will be better?
Ian (politely) shut him off "It does look good to me, anyway this pic has been used many times by magazines.."
So there, people just can't stop shooting their mouth off. Mouth are to be heard, but whether you want to hear or not, its up to you. Ie to me, constructive stuffs, I absorbed and even take notes, others? Into my recycle bin, never to resurface..
Student - you said
"So calling people's photo "Sucks" is refined language?
So do you expect people o take you seriously if you use language like that?
Trash belongs to pigs. Do you not think pigs and trash belongs together? A person is known by what comes out of him.
And fishmonger's wives have bad language? Wow! You said it!"
so, just because DP likes to use that term, you are quite happy to descend to his level?
and frankly, i dont think he cares whether people take him seriously or not.
but the conversatoin we were having, had nothing to do with him. my point to you was, is it necessary for YOU to resort to such language.
because it seems to me, that all you are doing here, is really no better than him. surely, if you want to portray yourself as a proper, serious photographer and critic, one must rise above all of this? or can you just not resist...
"So calling people's photo "Sucks" is refined language?
So do you expect people o take you seriously if you use language like that?
Trash belongs to pigs. Do you not think pigs and trash belongs together? A person is known by what comes out of him.
And fishmonger's wives have bad language? Wow! You said it!"
so, just because DP likes to use that term, you are quite happy to descend to his level?
and frankly, i dont think he cares whether people take him seriously or not.
but the conversatoin we were having, had nothing to do with him. my point to you was, is it necessary for YOU to resort to such language.
because it seems to me, that all you are doing here, is really no better than him. surely, if you want to portray yourself as a proper, serious photographer and critic, one must rise above all of this? or can you just not resist...
the mee pok stall at my place sux big time!!!
:embrass: but I don't know how to cook mee pok or why it sux compared to the other stall.. :embrass: I better just swallow the disgusting mee pok..
:embrass: but I don't know how to cook mee pok or why it sux compared to the other stall.. :embrass: I better just swallow the disgusting mee pok..
I also think that some people know how to criticise but don't know how to take criticism. Some people here get very defensive and to some degree very nasty when they are criticised. I won't mention names but I have been seeing a trend with some people in CS, particularly some that have numerous posts.
Jeez, I think I am going to get my ass handed to me for even saying something so "offensive". But so be it. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.
Jeez, I think I am going to get my ass handed to me for even saying something so "offensive". But so be it. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.
I find some CS critics quite good, I like critics to give constructive critique for my photos leh, but seldom receive much, guess my photo suck :cry:
Anyway, I do think that if the TS have any question or want to know a comment better, he could always ask, instead of being spoonfed. Some however may be offended if you make them look like they don't know what underexpose is :sweat:
Since one kind of rice raise hundreds kind of man (not to mention wheat, corn, potatoes etc), there deem to be different views/critics from different persons. Just take note on the constructive one and ignore the one not suiting one taste.
Anyway, I do think that if the TS have any question or want to know a comment better, he could always ask, instead of being spoonfed. Some however may be offended if you make them look like they don't know what underexpose is :sweat:
Since one kind of rice raise hundreds kind of man (not to mention wheat, corn, potatoes etc), there deem to be different views/critics from different persons. Just take note on the constructive one and ignore the one not suiting one taste.
I think he likes more the effect produced by the use of this term and by maintaining it though already many many times been said that it was rude.
I can take critics saying through technical or artistic facts that my pic suck.
I cannot take a free, thrown in the face : "your pic sucks" without further explanation.
Not because I'm too sensitive, but because I hate rude/stupid/useless/unconstructive comments as this one as I think It help in NO way the pic author to improve but rather discourage him to show any further pictures.
Note also that I do hate the same way "Nosebleed" comments for the same reason AND because there are other better dedicated places on the net to simply peep over woman boobs and get excited about it.
Just my 2 cents...
Sion
Senior Member
The trouble is not our critics are harshest.
The trouble is we don't have enough harsh critics.
They are like monks who medidate in high mountains among the clouds and rarely come down.
The trouble is we don't have enough harsh critics.
They are like monks who medidate in high mountains among the clouds and rarely come down.
I'm of the opinion that you don't have to be an expert in the subject matter in order to give feedback. Just like how I'm nowhere near David Beckham's skill when it comes to football, but that doesn't prevent me from saying he's a lousy player. In fact, I think some of the best critics are everyday laypeople: Either they like, or don't like.
Of course, they're not too good at giving any constructive criticisms. That's where knowledgeable(??) folk here come in. Frankly, I also thought that bikini shoot series was terrible, but I'd refrain from using words such as "suck". That's like a hit below the belt. If you really want to give CC, then using such words could offend people and cause them to turn defensive.
Or even worse, cause such dejection and hurt feelings that they give up on photography altogether (maybe that's the actual intention - to keep out the "wannabes"?).
You can be perfectly frank in your opinions. But that doesn't mean you have to be rude and arrogant about it.
Of course, they're not too good at giving any constructive criticisms. That's where knowledgeable(??) folk here come in. Frankly, I also thought that bikini shoot series was terrible, but I'd refrain from using words such as "suck". That's like a hit below the belt. If you really want to give CC, then using such words could offend people and cause them to turn defensive.
Or even worse, cause such dejection and hurt feelings that they give up on photography altogether (maybe that's the actual intention - to keep out the "wannabes"?).
You can be perfectly frank in your opinions. But that doesn't mean you have to be rude and arrogant about it.
They are like monks who medidate in high mountains among the clouds and rarely come down.
Do excuse them.
The haze nowadays are quite bad they cant find the way down.:bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie:
personally. i dont know why we are having such a debate over the standard of criticism.
if you guys, or the TS doesnt like the way the criticism is shaped or directed or whatever. thts what the ignore button is there for.
none of us can deny, that its an internet forum. so we get all kinds here, who will offer their views in a myriad of different ways. some of it will be useful. some of it will be crap.
as others have siad, if you dont agree, just ignore lor.
as much as i hate to bring it up, i know there ar esome, that dont like the way that some others deliver their criticism. but fact is, nothing is going to change. mods dont see anything wrong with it, or they would have done something about it. so why do we need to keep beating the same drum?
if you guys, or the TS doesnt like the way the criticism is shaped or directed or whatever. thts what the ignore button is there for.
none of us can deny, that its an internet forum. so we get all kinds here, who will offer their views in a myriad of different ways. some of it will be useful. some of it will be crap.
as others have siad, if you dont agree, just ignore lor.
as much as i hate to bring it up, i know there ar esome, that dont like the way that some others deliver their criticism. but fact is, nothing is going to change. mods dont see anything wrong with it, or they would have done something about it. so why do we need to keep beating the same drum?
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