Bought a 2nd hand but found out later is stolen / lost lens?

[JohnJon82]

Hi,
Did a search but did not find anything in the CS. What happen if we bought a 2nd hand lens, but it is stolen or the original owner lost it and the ppl who pick it up sell it in the BNS.
Few cases below:
1. Owner found out you got his lens, call police and say you stole it, the thief seller long gone - can't contact him. Police charge you.
2. Police caught the thief, thief admit wrong doing, police retrace his buyer, go your house ask u give back the lens? But thief spent your money, so can't pay you back, you end up losing money? Will police charge you since you bought a stolen item (although you don't know it is stolen goods)?
Asking this because maybe buying a lens from BNS, but the seller said the original receipt is lost, and don't come with box/manual etc, only lens and cap. Thanks all.

 

[Rashkae]

Aiyoo, why cross-post?

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/threads/311048-Buying-2nd-hand-lenses?p=7327078#post7327078

Never read CS rules, huh?

 

[rhino123]

My advise to TS... if so worried about this... don't buy second hand. Even if you buy from a shop like Camera Workshop, there are still chances of getting goods that are actually stolen, rob or whatever, because even camera workshop get their stuff from a third party who sold them their used lenses.

It is very normal that people threw away their boxes and stuff after buying and using the lens.

 

[Octarine]

TS: First of all, CS is not a legal advisory board or a community of lawyers doing charity work. If you need specific advice please consult a lawyer and present your special case. Reason: the standard answer of all lawyers is: "It depends .." on the case and its specific details.
Secondly: the police will not charge you in any way, they do investigations. Based on the facts collected you will be charged in Court.
But looking at all your worries and concerns.. best to stay away from BnS and pay full price in standard shops.

 

[JohnJon82]

Sorry for double posting :cry:

Thought the BNS section exist so long, there might be some cases history for reference. Some lens cost significant amount of money so just concerned if things like this will happen. I bought and sold things in other local forum, but those are like games/books and stuff that is much cheaper than lens, so never come across this scenario before. Thanks all for the reply

 

[sjackal]

I do not think you need to consult a lawyer for such a question and I feel sorry for you for the harsh replies you received from the more senior members.

To answer your question,

"1. Owner found out you got his lens, call police and say you stole it, the thief seller long gone - can't contact him. Police charge you."

Assuming you are really innocent, the Police won't charge you but they will investigate and will need your cooperation to track the thief. It is best to extend your full cooperation to them to avoid getting into complication of hiding facts.

"2. Police caught the thief, thief admit wrong doing, police retrace his buyer, go your house ask u give back the lens? But thief spent your money, so can't pay you back, you end up losing money? Will police charge you since you bought a stolen item (although you don't know it is stolen goods)?"

The lens will be seized as evidence and eventually returned to the owner. If you really have no knowledge of it being stolen items, then you have nothing to fear. But if you know that is or have reasons to believe that it might be stolen, or keeping the lens after knowing that it is stolen items, you might be charged by the Police for dishonestly retaining stolen property. That is why, it is best to extend your fullest cooperation to the Police assuming if you really bought stolen items by accident.

Yes you end up losing money.

But some people lost even more money buying lottery every week over the course of ten years. People buy sell and trade on clubsnap and many many many other forums everyday.

 

[magicianhisoka]

you can argue under tort of conversion. do your own google work for that. basically boils down to, if you bought it fair and square (e.g a dealer with no prior knowledge that it was stolen), the owner cannot sue you to get it back.

take what i said with a pinch of salt. i am not a lawyer. use the information at your own risk

 

[lcheowl]

Under the law, the thief do not have ownership to the lens and if he sell the lens to you, you do not own the lens.

You must return the lens to the rightful owner and you need to prove you are the innocent party.

You can then take legal action against that seller.

 

[JohnJon82]

Lesson learnt = must insist seller to provide proof of purchase - 99% safe, 1% is lens stolen together with receipt

 

[DeadEnd]

Even if you bought new but parallel import, can you be sure it is not stolen in bulk from the cargo? Do you think the shop will provide you with the proof of purchase and show you their cost price? Best option for you is to buy brand new from authorised reseller or keep the money in the bank.

 

[chiangkxv]

If he register his warranty online, ask him to print out a copy of his lens registration details from the canon website for verification

 

[JasonB]

Lesson learnt = must insist seller to provide proof of purchase - 99% safe, 1% is lens stolen together with receipt

No wonder people ask you to buy new from shop and no wonder the snub replies.

 

[pansclub]

May be you can take down the particular of the seller if you have doubt or ask for a written paper.

 

[technoglitz87]

May be you can take down the particular of the seller if you have doubt or ask for a written paper.

wow all that for a 2nd hand item? i believe everyone just wants it simplified, see,check ok take and pay liao. 2nd hand markets are built upon trust from my own experience, altho occasionally a few black sheeps la haha.

 

[rhino123]

My advise to TS... get new stuff from legal shops and forget about BnS... less stress to yourself and the seller. Not that I am being harsh or what... but if you are genuinely worried about the transaction, the easiest way is not to get second or third hand. I mean, I never keep my receipt after warranty period and sometime I lost my box too. So how am I (and I am sure I speak for many genuine seller) is going to prove that this lens is mine. Worst... I might have bought this lens from another third party who is actually not the first owner of the lens.

As we all know lenses lasted forever if well taken care off... heck... I have some lenses from the 60s and 50s... so there really is no way the box of these lenses are still available (much less the receipt - if there ever is a receipt in the first place).

 

[JohnJon82]

lol for the harsh reply, but nvm. Read from overseas forum few guys actually got into trouble buying 2nd hand stolen lenses from their BNS forum. Just trying to see people here aware of these kind of minor detail or not. Bought a lens and a tripod from CS, sellers give receipts when dealing without I asking - that time I still don't care about receipt. Those are responsible seller.

Receipt are important, please keep. You can only claim back the amount you lost from insurance if you have the receipt. Heard from a CSer, he claimed back full amount of the camera gears he lost shown on his receipt, even the camera and lens are few years old - no depreciate in the value. Most don't buy insurance locally right for their camera... but say you go on tour package holiday, travel insurance got buy?

Or you lost your camera/lens in Singapore. People found it and send to police station / post at CS forum. You go claim, they ask proof of purchase, you say lost already don't have... (and before you, got few fake owner said the same thing to them -mostly at forum, don't think they will go police there to fake claim goods). Not sure if they will give it back to you by your description of the lens and things inside the bag or not. Have to go thru more trouble to get it back I guess.

So receipt important or not? 2 cents.

 

[KangS]

To TS, first off ... your hypothetical scenarios will never play out ....

The police as far as I've seen for other things outside of camera gear ... cannot be bothered/are to preoccupied with other things to track such stuff. "its a civil case ......". The very most they ask you to return the item if original owner can prove ownership/purchase.

 

[JasonB]

Read in overseas forum that a few people had caught a flu after swimming. Tomorow I am going swimming so now I very stressed and worried. Will the doctor believe me? Will he give a jab? Will he check my swimming pool receipt? Jiaklak no receipt how? Can i claim from singapore sports council med fee? Or claim from singapore pools? Better ask the people on the forum.

Relax lah dude! Be cool

Take the advises and buy from shop!

 

[JohnJon82]

Read in overseas forum that a few people had caught a flu after swimming. Tomorow I am going swimming so now I very stressed and worried. Will the doctor believe me? Will he give a jab? Will he check my swimming pool receipt? Jiaklak no receipt how? Can i claim from singapore sports council med fee? Or claim from singapore pools? Better ask the people on the forum.

Relax lah dude! Be cool

Take the advises and buy from shop!

lol. Guess I will buy only from the manufacturer direct, not even authorised retailers for peace of mind... Thanks all for the replies, cheers haha

 

[eleveninth]

lol. Guess I will buy only from the manufacturer direct, not even authorised retailers for peace of mind... Thanks all for the replies, cheers haha

Wah rich