advice on telephoto zoom
- Thread starter illumnae
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Yup... I thought it would be in the region of 1300++ (converted from USD). Or maybe is due to the lack of stock which drove the price up.
TS... to be very blunt with you... wildlife photography is not exactly a cheap hobby, be it shooting birds, animals or flowers and natural landscape or macro or whatever... all came with a price and the price is not cheap. Other than the lenses, do take note that wildlife photography (because of the nature of that genre), there are other equipment that you would need and that is
1) Monopod
2) Tripod (with good tripod head)
3) Filters
4) Flash (external flash - ring flash, flash extender, etc, etc)
And many a time, you bring all these equipment out at once. And if weight is a problem, then perhaps, wildlife photography is not for you.
However, if you really want to try, try only... then most probably the 55-250mm is good enough (at least for zoo shots). Then at the same time, you could rent the 300mm f2.8L or even the 100-400mm L lens or Tamron 120-600mm lens to see if you can handle the weight. Don't forget to take into consideration of the other items too.
I give up serious wildlife photography some time ago when I find that I cannot handle all those weights and only shoot some birds now and then for fun and without the equipment and lenses most of the bro here had recommended or advised, I have not been able to capture half a decent shots of birds or animals as compared to them.
1) Monopod
2) Tripod (with good tripod head)
3) Filters
4) Flash (external flash - ring flash, flash extender, etc, etc)
And many a time, you bring all these equipment out at once. And if weight is a problem, then perhaps, wildlife photography is not for you.
However, if you really want to try, try only... then most probably the 55-250mm is good enough (at least for zoo shots). Then at the same time, you could rent the 300mm f2.8L or even the 100-400mm L lens or Tamron 120-600mm lens to see if you can handle the weight. Don't forget to take into consideration of the other items too.
I give up serious wildlife photography some time ago when I find that I cannot handle all those weights and only shoot some birds now and then for fun and without the equipment and lenses most of the bro here had recommended or advised, I have not been able to capture half a decent shots of birds or animals as compared to them.
nature photography is very general..i would advise u on a zoom lens to start off with and decide in future which genre of nature photography u like and get a more suitable equipments for it..100-400mm or 150-600mm sounds good...but again depend on your on pocket..as mentioned above that if u keep changing equipments,the more loses u will incurred and B&S is another option u can look in.
Thank you very much for the candid advice. I appreciate all the advice given, but I think somewhere along the way, the fact that I'm an absolute newbie to this hobby got lost. I understand that photography and in particular wildlife photography/birding is not a cheap hobby. But given that I just bought my first camera ever (not including handphone cameras) just a month ago, the advice being given was really overwhelming for me. I think Turbonetics put it best - I know I enjoy nature photography in general with a particular interest in macro (for now) due to the aquariums I keep at home. However, I need to explore the field more so to speak in order to decide which genre of nature photography that I like and then invest in equipment accordingly. I'm not averse to spending the required money, but I don't want to buy gear unnecessarily too early in the hobby.
Before I started this hobby, I did quite abit of research, and the general consensus I see is that you need to grow into your gear. For example, much of the advice I see online is that a beginner should look into buying a Rebel series (XXXD) camera first and play around with it for a few years until you outgrow the camera, then you upgrade accordingly based on how you feel your camera is limiting you. Likewise, I was advised that simply put, the kit lens in a camera is more than enough to last me a year or two until I outgrow the lens, then I can upgrade to a 15-85 or 17-55. If I had the 55-250 kit lens, I don't think I would even have started this thread, as I think that lens would last me at least a year.
For my macro photography, since I know I do have an interest in it, I already purchased a lens (Canon 100mm non-L), external flash and tripod, and will invest further as required (already looking into getting a ring flash). The gear I bought was directed towards aquarium macro photography as that has been my interest, but as I go into the field more and try to take insect macro shots, I already feel the limitations of my current setup and will look into expanding (monopod, ring flash, rigging the external flash to be better for macro etc.). I am actually also looking into getting a better tripod with a good ball head, but that is a separate issue I will need advice on.
With all that in mind, please don't think I'm trying to be cheapskate or stinge unnecessarily. I am really just trying to grow into the hobby and see for myself first which genre interests me best. Maybe it will turn out that I actually hate birding and am only interested in nature macro (insects, flowers etc.). At that point in time, my funds would be better channeled to getting better macro gear like the ring flash, the 100mm L lens, 180mm L lens or Sigma lens etc. Alternatively, maybe I will find that I enjoy birding more, by which time maybe Canon would have released the 100-400 L Mark 2, and I would prefer getting the Mark 2 over the Mark 1? My point is that it's really too early for me to tell now, being only 1 month in the hobby.
However, without proper "starter" gear, I won't be able to "try try" to see what I like. That's why I started to look into an introductory zoom lens and shortlisted the 2 lenses I originally asked about. I know that the cheaper 55-250 IS is sufficient for me to play around with for awhile, and like I said, if I already had a copy of this, I wouldn't have started this thread but would have used it already. That is why I feel that the quoted advice from rhino123 and Turbonetics is spot on for me! It is with the mindset they advised that I started this thread - I already considered what you all said, and my conclusion was the same - to get a simple zoom lens first to try try only, then get more suitable gear as I start to specialize. My wife and I are looking to sign up for Bird Park membership, or join a club like NPSS to help us along.
That being said, my budget is slightly higher then the cost of the 55-250 IS and I am willing to pay a couple hundred dollars more for something with better image quality. That is why I am looking into the 55-250 STM or the Tamron 70-300 VC. Both lenses have garnered great reviews (less so in relation to the STM since it's very new), and I feel that they would last me for a longer time before I outgrow them, which gives me more time to discover for myself which genre of nature photography I would like to pursue further. I would just simply love some advice on which of these 2 lenses you guys feel would be the better investment for me at this juncture in my early journey into the hobby.
I really hope I don't come across as rude or ungrateful. I really appreciate that all of you who replied took time out of your busy lives to give me advice and share your experience with me. Everything I learnt in this thread has been carefully considered and taken into account and will be remembered for future purchases.
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Thank you for this advice, it is definitely sound advice as in my research, I have come across many many good reviews for this lens. 70-200L f4 seems to be accepted as one of the best zoom lenses that is affordable.
However, I do have a question as well. One of the benefits of this lens aside from its IQ is that it's faster than most other zoom lenses, being at a constant f4 aperture throughout its range. However, it does lack in reach compared to say the Tamron 70-300VC or even the Canon 70-300 IS (non L). Many reviews I read online concluded that the Tamron 70-300VC is only very slightly worse than the 70-200L, even to the extent of being comparable in IQ over some of the range. So the trade off really is slight degradation in IQ vs more reach.
If I want to gain more reach on the 70-200L, then I will need to use a 1.4X teleconverter. This will bring the reach of the 70-200L almost to 300m, almost on par with the Tamron. However, I understand that using the 1.4x tc will cause loss of 1 stop in effective aperture, making the 70-200L equivalent to F5.6 throughout its range. In such a scenario, with slightly better IQ and almost equivalent range, the 70-200L ends up becoming slower than the Tamrom (4-5.6) over most of its range.
So if I would prefer slightly more reach than 200mm, given the above, would it still be advisable to spend 2x more ($1.1k lens +$500 tc) for the 70-200L + 1.4x tc compared to just getting the Tamron?
Looks like you have already done your homework well.
My advise then would turned to getting the Tamron 70-300mm VC. I am not too sure what is the cost of this lens (I doubt it will be very high in cost).
The lens is excellent.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/...meraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0
Seen in the abovementioned, the 70-300mm is basically sharper than the 55-250mm. And another thing was that the 70-300mm is an EF mount lens and so is also compatible with fullframe camera... couldn't say the same for the 55-250mm (unless you fancy doing modification to the lens). This is quite an important consideration, because you never know... maybe one day, you would want to upgrade to become a FF camera (don't think that wouldn't happen).
There are a few schools of thought. "Growing" into the hobby is only one of them. I have a friend who right away got himself a 1DX, 5Dm3, all the best lenses at the get go. He is a very driven fella, and within one year, is already shooting better than many people I know. Many of our mutual friends all agree, he never gets poisoned, or get have gear lust, simply because he already got the best from the start. And all that is left to do is to focus on improving his skill. No excuses for bad shots because he cannot blame it on the gear.
Of course, different people learn differently, and different people have different level of focus and drive. But some of the members said it the best, you can always rent the lenses and try out. It is way better than getting a lens you might have problem trying to sell later.
For some genres of nature/wildlife photography, you really need the right tools to produce relatively decent pictures to begin with. If you get something that is not suitable, not only will you not be able to learn properly, you might discourage yourself with all the bad pictures you shoot. You will hit the wall sooner than you think, and in your own inexperience, might attribute to your own inability, when it is really using the wrong tools for the job.
Spend a little money and rent once in a while to try out. But before you do that, my recommendation is not even getting any tele zoom, or get a cheaper used one, but concentrate on working on your basics, like how to adapt to different situations using your gear. Once you have a strong foundation in your basics, it is a much easier move to any kind of photography you want to do.
BTW, this link is really my first attempt at birding after shooting many other genres for several years. http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1340144
Of course, different people learn differently, and different people have different level of focus and drive. But some of the members said it the best, you can always rent the lenses and try out. It is way better than getting a lens you might have problem trying to sell later.
For some genres of nature/wildlife photography, you really need the right tools to produce relatively decent pictures to begin with. If you get something that is not suitable, not only will you not be able to learn properly, you might discourage yourself with all the bad pictures you shoot. You will hit the wall sooner than you think, and in your own inexperience, might attribute to your own inability, when it is really using the wrong tools for the job.
Spend a little money and rent once in a while to try out. But before you do that, my recommendation is not even getting any tele zoom, or get a cheaper used one, but concentrate on working on your basics, like how to adapt to different situations using your gear. Once you have a strong foundation in your basics, it is a much easier move to any kind of photography you want to do.
BTW, this link is really my first attempt at birding after shooting many other genres for several years. http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1340144
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Since u are into macro photography now,i would suggest u to continue with it and learn more ropes of it rather than thinking of other photography first..u will surely meet some of other photographers who shoot different photography of nature and try to talk to them and understand more on different types of nature shots before u decide and in the meantime,while shooting macro u can also look around and try to shoot other subjects like monitor lizard,otters,changeable lizards,birds..etc and see what is your limitations before u decide what lens to get..I think its too early for u to get another lens now,u can in the meantime save up for a better lens in future..there are reasons for similar lenses(Focal Length) with huge price difference.
anyway,if u get the 70-200mm F4 lens,u have the option to use F4 throughout though compromise on reach but with TC i believe u will only or most of the time shoot at the tele end of 200mm so not really fair comparison against the 70-300mm VC F4-5.6.
my advise is that don't rely too much on internet reviews..many photos are being PP to make them looks best..
and don't just read the price only.if u invest in a better quality lens,it can hold its value better and not only that but give u much better IQ..example if u buy a non-L lens at $500 and u wanted to sell it off a year later at $400,u lose $100 and if u invest more on a L lens at $1.4k and decide to sell it 1 year later at $1.25k,u lose $150...but the $50 difference gets u much better IQ images(just an illustration,pls do your own homework with regards to the lens u are looking for)..sometimes i tell my friends to buy a better lens so that next time don't have to reshoot again,this is just a joke..lol
I was also a beginner who started with kit lens(i belive most of us do)..and learnt alot throughout buying and selling process.
so these are some of my humble advises for your deep thoughts..and i agree with Daredevil that we need to have strong foundation and it will be easier to move to any form of photography though the process and techniques are different.
anyway,if u get the 70-200mm F4 lens,u have the option to use F4 throughout though compromise on reach but with TC i believe u will only or most of the time shoot at the tele end of 200mm so not really fair comparison against the 70-300mm VC F4-5.6.
my advise is that don't rely too much on internet reviews..many photos are being PP to make them looks best..
and don't just read the price only.if u invest in a better quality lens,it can hold its value better and not only that but give u much better IQ..example if u buy a non-L lens at $500 and u wanted to sell it off a year later at $400,u lose $100 and if u invest more on a L lens at $1.4k and decide to sell it 1 year later at $1.25k,u lose $150...but the $50 difference gets u much better IQ images(just an illustration,pls do your own homework with regards to the lens u are looking for)..sometimes i tell my friends to buy a better lens so that next time don't have to reshoot again,this is just a joke..lol
I was also a beginner who started with kit lens(i belive most of us do)..and learnt alot throughout buying and selling process.
so these are some of my humble advises for your deep thoughts..and i agree with Daredevil that we need to have strong foundation and it will be easier to move to any form of photography though the process and techniques are different.
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Thank you all for your guidance and advice. I understand the points you are trying to get across to me and I will definitely learn from them.
Yup, I have read that review amongst others
This is supposed to be one of Tamron's better lenses as it was released as an "anniversary lense" and is in their SP ("Super Performance") range.
I understand the alternative view. I cannot afford a 1DX + 5D3 combination now, that's for sure! :bigeyes: I got the 600D partly as a favour to my sister as well as she desperately wanted to get rid of hers and was a little lazy to do it via the marketplace. I'm quite dazzled by the 70D currently, but I can probably squeeze more performance out of the 600D for a few more months if not a year. By then maybe the 7D2 will be out? Currently thinking of just staying with a crop body, as it gives more reach and I'm really not looking to go into professional level shooting.
I love your birding shots! Will try hard to build my foundation in the hobby, but I think it'll be quite a long while before I can shoot anything even close to the shots you linked!
Thank you once again for your insightful sharing. Strong foundation is definitely important and I am trying to develop it as I go out for more shoots - no better way to learn than to keep shooting right? I understand your advice on just focusing on macro for now, but as I took up this hobby to be spending more time with my wife, I am catering to her interests too. She shoots with a 50x superzoom and is more interested in telephoto type shots than macro. Can't be I crawl around shooting macro shots while she's walking around at another part of the park taking her own shots - kinds of defeats the purpose Which is why I'm learning 2 areas of nature photography at the same time. I understand that splitting my focus will end up with me learning both areas slower than usual, but no choice with the situation I am in. I will endeavour to build my foundation as solid as possible though!
Yup, I have read that review amongst others
This is supposed to be one of Tamron's better lenses as it was released as an "anniversary lense" and is in their SP ("Super Performance") range.I understand the alternative view. I cannot afford a 1DX + 5D3 combination now, that's for sure! :bigeyes: I got the 600D partly as a favour to my sister as well as she desperately wanted to get rid of hers and was a little lazy to do it via the marketplace. I'm quite dazzled by the 70D currently, but I can probably squeeze more performance out of the 600D for a few more months if not a year. By then maybe the 7D2 will be out? Currently thinking of just staying with a crop body, as it gives more reach and I'm really not looking to go into professional level shooting.
I love your birding shots! Will try hard to build my foundation in the hobby, but I think it'll be quite a long while before I can shoot anything even close to the shots you linked!
Thank you once again for your insightful sharing. Strong foundation is definitely important and I am trying to develop it as I go out for more shoots - no better way to learn than to keep shooting right?
I understand your advice on just focusing on macro for now, but as I took up this hobby to be spending more time with my wife, I am catering to her interests too. She shoots with a 50x superzoom and is more interested in telephoto type shots than macro. Can't be I crawl around shooting macro shots while she's walking around at another part of the park taking her own shots - kinds of defeats the purpose Which is why I'm learning 2 areas of nature photography at the same time. I understand that splitting my focus will end up with me learning both areas slower than usual, but no choice with the situation I am in. I will endeavour to build my foundation as solid as possible though! Just curious, but what are everyone's thoughts on the Canon 70-300L? It's an L lens too with a further reach than the recommended 70-200L, but with variable 4-5.6 aperture (again, the 70-200L with 1.4x tc would have a worse effective aperture of 5.6 throughout its range). about the same price (maybe slightly more expensive) than the 70-200L on buy/sell.
DD got a point here. Even though I started with a 50D as my first DSLR about 22 months ago, I was quickly frustrated with the results and upgraded to a 5D2 in just 1 month. Then, I was frustrated with the AF of the 5D2, I changed to a 1D3 in the next 2 months. Soon after, I got frustrated with the small megapixels and lousy LCD display of the 1D3. I then upgraded to a 1D4 a month later, which stayed with me for about 6 months. At that time my wife has also changed form her original 600D --> 7D --> 5D3 (also in the same time frame). After playing with her 5D3, the itch to go back to a full frame came back and I got myself a 1DX (from Bro Turbonetics!). After a few months, due to work commitment, I have not use much of the 1DX and decided to sell it away and got myself a 7D. Soon after, I missed the 1DX and re-purchase it again. All these gears were bought from B&S and I resell them back in B&S. After doing a consolidated P&L, I do not lose much on all the purchases.
As what DD mentioned, with an array of good gears, we have only ourselves to blame for bad results. This drives me to work hard (reading a lot on photography topics from books and forums; and practise more in order to achieve what I want to be in this hobby).
Thanks for your kind comments on my birding shots. Please do remember I am a newbie in birding too, just started late last year. My photos are not even near to the quality and level to many posting in the Nature subforum. But I did realize a lot of my skills in other genres are portable. Like how to compose the scene, and what to do to achieve certain shots, be it where to focus, what focus mode to use in what situation, or decisions of the exposure triangle to work with.
I understand it is difficult for anyone to start buying the best. But just to let you know there is many paths to Rome. But usually, if there is no limitation in $$, the fastest route is usually the best. But yes, most of us don't have money growing on trees, so we have to make tough choices on what we can get. But I do recommend you to consider getting the best your budget can afford.
One thing also to know is that for shooting distant subjects with long focal length, Not only is your lens and camera important, every thing down to your support will affect the quality of your shots. That means strong and stable tripod as well as head (gimbal or otherwise). I learnt this the hard way, when shooting on a gimbal on a smaller tripod. Eeven though it is quite big and solid for landscape photography which I used to support my entire pano setup, when shooting birds at 600mm, my frame would vibrate with every mirror slap... Forcing me to go to a higher shutter speed to reduce shake while irrating the hell out of myself when shooting.
how about the cheaper tamron 70-300 macro and a monopod? The lens u can probably get lesser than $200. IQ is decent according to web reviews. The 'lesson fee' is pretty low too.
Nice lens, pretty small, but heavier than what I would expect.
The thing is... with that money, I would get a 400mm f5.6L anytime, it is a prime lens but the extra 100mm is very useful. For casual shooter though, I would go for 70-200mm f4L IS (I have that lens), not as expensive as it used to be, very sharp, acceptable AF speed, quite light thus easy to carry around for long period of time (at least to me), very effective image stabilization (I am able to achieve quite a high keep rate at 200mm with as low as 1/15 sec shutter speed.
The main thing here is... if you really want to try up this genre of photography, I would really advise that you start out renting lenses - Canon/ Sigma/ Tamron 70-200mm f2.8, Sigma 120-300mm f2.8, Canon 400mm f5.6L or Sigma 300mm f2.8/ Canon 300mm f4L. Since I would assume that you don't go shooting nature shots every single days, it is easy to just loan a lens first whenever you want to shoot. Then try out these different combination.
If you really like it... then like what others had mentioned before, save up to get a good lens be it L lens or third party equivalent. Then get on with it. Of course for the price and sharpness of the Tamron 70-300mm... it is a very good lens and could help you start up with zoo shots, no problem. I mean, I get pretty nice results even with my old 55-250mm in the zoo, there shouldn't be a problem for you with the 70-300mm.
Another lens that might interest you would be the Bigma 50-500mm... or Sigma 120-500mm... of course these lenses cost more than 1k, so if it is way past your budget, then keep to your initial plan.
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Or even consider the older Tamron 200-500mm. A used one should cost less than 1k nowadays. Or look at the Sigma 150-500 at 1k.
If you are going to get a 70-300VC 70-300L IS, you are already very close in price to that 1k mark. Just spend a couple hundred more and you can get much better reach.
BTW, long telephoto lenses are usually quite easy to sell. Lenses like the 30-700 are much harder because they are so common.
If you are going to get a 70-300VC 70-300L IS, you are already very close in price to that 1k mark. Just spend a couple hundred more and you can get much better reach.
BTW, long telephoto lenses are usually quite easy to sell. Lenses like the 30-700 are much harder because they are so common.
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To make thing easier,
TS: you could look at the following lenses,
1) Sigma 150-500mm f/5 - 6.3 OS
2) Sigma 120-400mm f4.5 - 5.6 OS
3) Sigma 50-500mm f4.5-6.3 OS
4) Tamron 150-600mm f5-6.3 VC
5) Canon 400mm f5.6L
These are pretty budget and decent lenses for wildlife photography, however all of them exceed 1k. Do rent one first to try out to see if it is good enough for you before buying.
TS: you could look at the following lenses,
1) Sigma 150-500mm f/5 - 6.3 OS
2) Sigma 120-400mm f4.5 - 5.6 OS
3) Sigma 50-500mm f4.5-6.3 OS
4) Tamron 150-600mm f5-6.3 VC
5) Canon 400mm f5.6L
These are pretty budget and decent lenses for wildlife photography, however all of them exceed 1k. Do rent one first to try out to see if it is good enough for you before buying.
Thanks everyone for your continued advice! My hands have a history of being slightly shaky, so for sure I will need IS/OS/VC, so the 400mm f5.6L, old Tamron 70-300 and 200-500 are out for me. I will look into the Sigma 150-500 or Tamron 150-600, they seem to create a smooth eventual upgrade path for me such that after enough saving and upgrading, I'll end up with a final 3 lens set of 15-85/17-55 + 70-200 f4L + 150-500/600 + 100mm macro - not much overlap.
I'll look into renting these lenses to try out
I'll look into renting these lenses to try out
Thanks everyone for your continued advice! My hands have a history of being slightly shaky, so for sure I will need IS/OS/VC, so the 400mm f5.6L, old Tamron 70-300 and 200-500 are out for me. I will look into the Sigma 150-500 or Tamron 150-600, they seem to create a smooth eventual upgrade path for me such that after enough saving and upgrading, I'll end up with a final 3 lens set of 15-85/17-55 + 70-200 f4L + 150-500/600 + 100mm macro - not much overlap.
I'll look into renting these lenses to try out
whether your hands are stable or shaky,i would highly recommend using at least a monopod for lens 200mm and above ofcourse tripod would be best especially at higher focal length 400mm and above..this is something u cannot skip when using telephoto lens.
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