bye bye clubsnap, i am flying over to denmark and work as a cleaner.

[Sispecho]

Err... I think you also miss the point.

We are saying that you might be paid XXXX amount more in country A than in country B... but doesn't mean having XXXX amount is enough, living as if like a rich man/woman in country A.

No where have we talk about could HDB flats or Housing... :bsmilie:

Or you could try being like our local FW... work aboard and live in bad condition for 3-5 years... return with $$$..

I get that point. Its concerning the purchasing power of the cleaners two diff economic environments.

Lets consider a basket of goods to compare. One is a Big Mac which was already discussed.
A Big Mac may mean diff things in this two places. For example. It may be seen as luxury food in Denmark but a staple food in SG.

How about housing? Is a HDB flat a perfect substitute for Danish housing? If not, then can we look at SG's private properties as a closer to a perfect substitute to Danish housing?

Also i think we have to look at lifestyle and the consumption pattern of Danish vs Singaporeans. Maybe the Danes can afford to have a sole breadwinner but as things are in SG, sometimes you see householda needing dual income and therefore may have more necessities like childcare or what not. Therefore diff consumption patterns to meet each other's needs..

Like if Danish restaurants are expensive, thats because it may be considered a luxury to eat out over there and not a necessity like we do here in SG. Nobody has the time to cook.

So compare a private landed property to that of labded property in SG. After all, housing is in the second tier of Maslow's hierarchy of needs....

Im typing from a phone so excuse me please dor typos..

 

[giantcanopy]

But not so for our HDB. I will have no savings at all after plonking down $ for a stupid flat which i can t even pass down to my children.

Hdb 99yr, give n take, still can pass down one generation.

 

[giantcanopy]

Money n calculations of how much you are left with aside, they probably have the happiest cleaners too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/04/06/world-happiness-report-2012_n_1408787.html

 

[diver-hloc]

Well... then you'll better pack your bags and leave ASAP while the Cleaning Job is still there... before Euro Zone goes down anyway....

But in truth... I've never been to Denmark or know anyone from there... so, can't confirm or un-confirm is a sole breadwinner earning enough for a whole family. All I know is this... Denmark is a whole lot bigger than S'pore... If S'pore has the same amount of land... yes, you can have your dream house with Land to your name... like in Malaysia or Indonesia. But sadly... you live in SG with its limited land.

So... to compare housing in SG and Denmark... :think:

 

[edutilos-]

You guys are missing the point. One generation in Denmark to slug it out and build house and the generations after can still taste the fruit. But not so for our HDB. I will have no savings at all after plonking down $ for a stupid flat which i can t even pass down to my children.

The trouble with your argument is that it assumes that property is the only form of wealth that can be passed down.

That's certainly not true.

 

[Sispecho]

The trouble with your argument is that it assumes that property is the only form of wealth that can be passed down.

That's certainly not true.

The problem with your critique of my argument is that you do not appreciate that I spend a lot of my credit on housing that it will certainly help me and my family should it be easily inheritable like elsewhere.

Well... then you'll better pack your bags and leave ASAP while the Cleaning Job is still there... before Euro Zone goes down anyway....

But in truth... I've never been to Denmark or know anyone from there... so, can't confirm or un-confirm is a sole breadwinner earning enough for a whole family. All I know is this... Denmark is a whole lot bigger than S'pore... If S'pore has the same amount of land... yes, you can have your dream house with Land to your name... like in Malaysia or Indonesia. But sadly... you live in SG with its limited land.

So... to compare housing in SG and Denmark... :think:

Well you acknowledge Singapore's land scarcity. So you do agree of the handicap Singaporeans face as a global citizen. And some more to burden Singaporeans of a wide income gap. Just check Singapore's GINI coefficient. much much higher than the countries compared here, though to make that kind of comparison is a little bit unfair. Not acknowledging the issue of a close to obscene price for flats now, is worse - Borderline criminal. And no i wont leave for Finland. I plan to retire in MY. I am worried that Singapore cannot provide for my needs during my twilight years...

Hdb 99yr, give n take, still can pass down one generation.

Yeah... Its a bit messy if you really want to do it with the transferring of monies from your CPF accounts and all that. Rather pay an inheritance tax and settle all the paperwork if its freehold.

but at least I hope the lease outlives me.... haha

 

[Sispecho]

Money n calculations of how much you are left with aside, they probably have the happiest cleaners too.

World Happiness Report 2012: Scandinavian Countries Are Happiest On Earth (SLIDESHOW) - The Huffington Post

How to be happy one day off in a week sometimes a in a fortnight but only earning sub 1k? haha jia lat la...

 

[ricohflex]

Such comparisons do not tell the true picture.
Other countries are not as friendly as Singapore to foreign workers. You will find out if you get there.

Want to know how Saudis treat their Indonesian maids?

 

[ninelives]

wondering how much IT guys can get in Denmark. :think:

 

[edutilos-]

The problem with your critique of my argument is that you do not appreciate that I spend a lot of my credit on housing that it will certainly help me and my family should it be easily inheritable like elsewhere.

I'm not even sure if your idea of wealth accumulation through property is viable in Singapore. I don't know much about other countries but I do recall that most flats in Britain are leaseholds: this article confirms that it is the case.

Naturally, the people who can afford freehold will be able to pass the property downwards, and this is the case nearly everywhere... Including Singapore. I hope you are not thinking about the case where everyone gets a freehold ownership on HDB flats.

 

[theRBK]

price of bus fares is high, thus pay of bus drivers is also high... as the Chinese saying goes, "the fleece of a sheep grows from the sheep"... or are people suggesting Singapore bus companies raise their fares to the level of those four countries?...

 

[cws77]

figures and statistics cannot tell the true picture. what is important is whether the people living in that country are happy living in that country....
sometimes some people are and some people are not.....no need to criticise both camps ... my two cents worth...

 

[edutilos-]

wondering how much IT guys can get in Denmark. :think:

PayScale Denmark - Denmark Country Salary, Average Salaries

 

[GRbenji]

Work as a cleaner in Denmark and can certainly come sg for holidays. Work as cleaner here can only dream of holidays in Denmark.

 

[Sispecho]

Such comparisons do not tell the true picture.
Other countries are not as friendly as Singapore to foreign workers. You will find out if you get there.

Want to know how Saudis treat their Indonesian maids?

Maybe it does tell the true picture. Im not implying anything, but because they are more protective of their resources to foreign workers, that is why they are in some ways better than us now...

I'm not even sure if your idea of wealth accumulation through property is viable in Singapore. I don't know much about other countries but I do recall that most flats in Britain are leaseholds: this article confirms that it is the case.

Naturally, the people who can afford freehold will be able to pass the property downwards, and this is the case nearly everywhere... Including Singapore. I hope you are not thinking about the case where everyone gets a freehold ownership on HDB flats.

Man.... I read for a while, and I dont understand that article man. haha...

Yeah but the idea of my argument is that if you want to compare wages, compare its purchasing power of acquiring property that is freehold to freehold and/or leasehold to leasehold, or whatever is the closest substitute within the two different economic ecosystem... So cannot compare HDB flat to landed property in Denmark. not same...

 

[allenleonhart]

The problem with your critique of my argument is that you do not appreciate that I spend a lot of my credit on housing that it will certainly help me and my family should it be easily inheritable like elsewhere.

I think I can better rephrase this statement.

A large proportion of my income goes towards paying my housing, which itself is a necessity, rather than a form of wealth. I would prefer that it also becomes a decent storage of wealth which I know I can/will pass down to my children, rather than being taken back my the garmen.

Is this what you are trying to say?:think:

 

[Sispecho]

price of bus fares is high, thus pay of bus drivers is also high... as the Chinese saying goes, "the fleece of a sheep grows from the sheep"... or are people suggesting Singapore bus companies raise their fares to the level of those four countries?...

Got check out the Gini Coefficient of us and them? not same hor by a lot! What it means roughly is this...


For eg.

In SG:
Bus fare: $1
Bus driver get :20 cents of $1
Bus company gets 80 cents of $1

In Finland (ang mo countries)
Bus fare: $1
Bus driver get: 40 cents of $1
Bus company gets 60 cents of $1

Money is not distributed as evenly in Singapore as in other ang mo countries.

So.... no need increase fares. Just redistribute income more fairly.

 

[kei1309]

so... are you planning to be a bus driver in those countries? :bsmilie:

 

[Sispecho]

I think I can better rephrase this statement.

A large proportion of my income goes towards paying my housing, which itself is a necessity, rather than a form of wealth. I would prefer that it also becomes a decent storage of wealth which I know I can/will pass down to my children, rather than being taken back my the garmen.

Is this what you are trying to say?:think:

yeah thanks.... about there lol. though its still in credit because i no money pay cash..... means I borrow from Ah Long and have to repay for 30 years through my cPF contribution. My wife gets to save 60 bucks per mth. My account? Dry. Its as if you put my retirement piggy bank in a dry cabinet...

 

[edutilos-]

Got check out the Gini Coefficient of us and them? not same hor by a lot! What it means roughly is this...


For eg.

In SG:
Bus fare: $1
Bus driver get :20 cents of $1
Bus company gets 80 cents of $1

In Finland (ang mo countries)
Bus fare: $1
Bus driver get: 40 cents of $1
Bus company gets 60 cents of $1

Money is not distributed as evenly in Singapore as in other ang mo countries.

Just to highlight that the Gini coefficient is usually calculated using income.

The Gini coefficient for wealth (since you raised that issue earlier) is a very different creature.

For example, the Gini coefficient for income:
Singapore: 0.46
Denmark: 0.27
Finland: 0.25
Norway: 0.24
Sweden: 0.24

Compared to the Gini coefficient for wealth (from Wikipedia, I'm lazy: List of countries by distribution of wealth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - that's 2008, not sure if there has been an update since then )
Singapore: 0.689
Denmark: 0.808
Finland: 0.615
Norway: 0.633
Sweden: 0.742

Here's a read for you, should you be interested: Is Sweden a False Utopia? | Newgeography.com