enough about models and organisers

[vince123123]

Echoing your sentiments, I think it would take a lot for the mod/admin team to want to take up this responsiblity - there is quite a bit of work involved to collect/keep personal particulars of everyone who joins shoots, not only mass, but also private shoots.

Will there come a point in time where CS will become like, say, onemodelplace, where it will disallow direct contacting and any contact has to go through the "system"?

Let me be the devils advocate here.

Who wanna take up this responsibility of holding and controlling this data? CS? You think the Mods are too free?? They have a life like any one of us...

Why would they want to take up extra work?

And how would anyone guarantee that the member's info data would be safe online? From hackers, some misuse, or others (not trying to put anyone down here, but this is a scary part)

You can always ask for things, but in the end someone has to do the dirty job and may even have to pay to get it done...

So who wants to fund it? :dunno:

 

[scandal599]

In light of the recent spate of TF issues, model issues and now a very serious allegation against a photographer as in this thread here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514682

I sincerely ask the mods and the admin team to look into this matter and provide a closed group for both models and photographers be it under the same umbrella or as two separate groups.

As a member of this community, we have seen numerous occasions of late about photographers being badly, especially on a recent lingerie shoot where a one said photographer was going around snapping photos without due regard for the models modesty and well being. The latest case is by far one of the most serious ones where, while based only on hearsay and circumstantial evidence provided, one can only say that on the surface, the alleged photographer who made the request to the T/S is one and the same person as those links provided.

On that said thread, while trying to be a voice of reason and trying to maintain a certain level of cool headed thinking, it is becoming increasingly difficult to do so amidst all the confusion and bedlam of people baying for blood and lynching of the said photographer. Short having a reply from the photographer himself and a lack evidence to be supported by the T/S, we are working blind here and very much increasingly so.

I will actually indeed suggest that CS can actually spin off a closed group for both models and photographers alike akin to what we see as per ModelMayhem or a similar site as such. Using MM as an example, all the members, be it photographers or models have a distinct tag number and each member must submit a said set of photos to be approved by a group of moderators. While CS need not go that direction, it will be prudent as such to do so. A group of member, seniority not withstanding can actually monitor any unauthorised activity and complaints can be handled in an efficient manner should the need arise. Photographers can evaluate models and vice versa and as members of the closed group, contact between model and photographer can be monitored. The closed group should only be used for this primary purpose of portffolio viewing and not the posting of photos. That can be done stilll via PP. Should any photographer request for casting calls, at least the group of "mods" in this case can act as a vanguard and curb any dubious request.

I sincerely request that the mod and admin team look into this area. If I can be of help, I will gladly do so in any way I can a part of my contribution to CS.

 

[Pablo]

In light of the recent spate of TF issues, model issues and now a very serious allegation against a photographer as in this thread here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514682

I sincerely ask the mods and the admin team to look into this matter and provide a closed group for both models and photographers be it under the same umbrella or as two separate groups.

As a member of this community, we have seen numerous occasions of late about photographers being badly, especially on a recent lingerie shoot where a one said photographer was going around snapping photos without due regard for the models modesty and well being. The latest case is by far one of the most serious ones where, while based only on hearsay and circumstantial evidence provided, one can only say that on the surface, the alleged photographer who made the request to the T/S is one and the same person as those links provided.

On that said thread, while trying to be a voice of reason and trying to maintain a certain level of cool headed thinking, it is becoming increasingly difficult to do so amidst all the confusion and bedlam of people baying for blood and lynching of the said photographer. Short having a reply from the photographer himself and a lack evidence to be supported by the T/S, we are working blind here and very much increasingly so.

I will actually indeed suggest that CS can actually spin off a closed group for both models and photographers alike akin to what we see as per ModelMayhem or a similar site as such. Using MM as an example, all the members, be it photographers or models have a distinct tag number and each member must submit a said set of photos to be approved by a group of moderators. While CS need not go that direction, it will be prudent as such to do so. A group of member, seniority not withstanding can actually monitor any unauthorised activity and complaints can be handled in an efficient manner should the need arise. Photographers can evaluate models and vice versa and as members of the closed group, contact between model and photographer can be monitored. The closed group should only be used for this primary purpose of portffolio viewing and not the posting of photos. That can be done stilll via PP. Should any photographer request for casting calls, at least the group of "mods" in this case can act as a vanguard and curb any dubious request.

I sincerely request that the mod and admin team look into this area. If I can be of help, I will gladly do so in any way I can a part of my contribution to CS.

:thumbsup:scandal599:thumbsup:

I agree totally.

I am shure that many out there feel just the same.

Thanks :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[g-khoo]

Just a suggestion (not sure if this might be of any use)

But would a rating system help? Kind of like on e-bay buyer/seller rating.

Each photog/model/mass order sales people etc has a "rate me" option where members can rate them.

Maybe even a testimonial box for feedback?

Of couse there is also the problem that some will not take it seriously and "rate for fun" although i think that would be a minority.

 

[Pablo]

Just a suggestion (not sure if this might be of any use)

But would a rating system help? Kind of like on e-bay buyer/seller rating.

Each photog/model/mass order sales people etc has a "rate me" option where members can rate them.

Maybe even a testimonial box for feedback?

Of couse there is also the problem that some will not take it seriously and "rate for fun" although i think that would be a minority.

Hi g-khoo,

It is a good suggestion !

The more suggestions given the better.

Maybe if all the suggestions get read, from them some one will find a working format.

Cheers

 

[vince123123]

Rating systems have been discussed in this forum on many occassions, buy and sell, etc and each time the Admins have decided not to implement it. There was a brief period of time where mass order organisers were given ratings as well, and that was eventually removed. The current surviving rating system is that of organisers, and I believe that was the exception where the Admin found that more good than harm will come out of it as far as members are concerned. Remember that this is a photogrpahy forum, and the interests of photographers come before any other group (models, organisers etc).

 

[Static]

" actually it is common sense, but normally blinded by $$$
just like buying equipment, homework needs to be done in advance
if they still insist on going to SLS to try their luck and get burned, we cannot stop them."

as quoted from Ortega in this post.
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5081632&postcount=173

From some of the feedback received, some of the model wannabes did the lingerie/semi-nude photoshoots for him FOC.
To say tat they are blinded by $$$ would be unfair since there isn't any compensation involved other than the TFCD photos.

The accused seemed to prey on naive model wannabes, luring them with the promise of professional looking photos for their portfolio in a sophiscated studio.
He will then try to convince them to accommodate to some of his lewd "requests".

Like what the others mentioned, such requests seemed to be on a selective basis and pertinent to the newer model wannabes with less network. The more seasoned models do not receive such requests.

I do agree with Ortega that models have to do some homework and find out more on the photographer prior to the photoshoot.

But very often, such new model wannabes start out with only a small network of fellow model friends to consult with. Furthermore, there are so many photographers and hobbists out there and many keep a low profile. It is impossible to draw much information abt the photographer at times.

They can't be faulted for taking a calculated risk going for such TFCD shoots.
The fault lies with errant photographers, not the "vain" model wannabes who wanted professionally taken FOC photos.

We udstd it's impossible to eradicate such ppl from CS, but rather than sweeping matters under the carpet and burying our heads in the sand pretending all is well in CS. Some of the members are hoping that such cases could be discussed more openly and subjectively.

By allowing the culprit go unnoticed will only encourage him to get bolder next time.

 

[ortega]

" actually it is common sense, but normally blinded by $$$
just like buying equipment, homework needs to be done in advance
if they still insist on going to SLS to try their luck and get burned, we cannot stop them."

as quoted from Ortega in this post.
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5081632&postcount=173

From some of the feedback received, some of the model wannabes did the lingerie/semi-nude photoshoots for him FOC.
To say tat they are blinded by $$$ would be unfair since there isn't any compensation involved other than the TFCD photos.

The accused seemed to prey on naive model wannabes, luring them with the promise of professional looking photos for their portfolio in a sophiscated studio.
He will then try to convince them to accommodate to some of his lewd "requests".

Like what the others mentioned, such requests seemed to be on a selective basis and pertinent to the newer model wannabes with less network. The more seasoned models do not receive such requests.

I do agree with Ortega that models have to do some homework and find out more on the photographer prior to the photoshoot.

But very often, such new model wannabes start out with only a small network of fellow model friends to consult with. Furthermore, there are so many photographers and hobbists out there and many keep a low profile. It is impossible to draw much information abt the photographer at times.

They can't be faulted for taking a calculated risk going for such TFCD shoots.
The fault lies with errant photographers, not the "vain" model wannabes who wanted professionally taken FOC photos.

We udstd it's impossible to eradicate such ppl from CS, but rather than sweeping matters under the carpet and burying our heads in the sand pretending all is well in CS. Some of the members are hoping that such cases could be discussed more openly and subjectively.

By allowing the culprit go unnoticed will only encourage him to get bolder next time.

dun lah quote my sweeping statement

we cannot do anything if the "victim" does not want to name the culprit and report him to the police. what else can we do as an online community? maybe everytime you see a new "model wannabe" you can pm him/her to the dangers that lurk in that industry.

but as i said, this is already common sense, i have seen this since i was a teenager and it is the same now, only easier with the internet.

not to mention beauty pageants, people offering too-good-to-be-true stuff
money for nothing, promise the moon for little or no effort, strike the spanish lottery ... ...

the list goes on and on

 

[vince123123]

Agree with Ortega, there's only so much spoonfeeding or protection that one can give. I'm not sure why there are so many cries for CS to be a nanny in this respect.

 

[scandal599]

while yes CS should not be a nanny, and we should self moderate. but there are instances where even self moderation is difficult. that said, the idea in which I propose may be one of the best options as far as right now is concerned to curb issues like these going forward unless someone else has a better idea to which I am sure we are and will be all open to.

 

[Pablo]

Agree with Ortega, there's only so much spoonfeeding or protection that one can give. I'm not sure why there are so many cries for CS to be a nanny in this respect.

Hi,

You seem very negative in trying to assist in working out something that can help in some way.

Why :dunno:

 

[ortega]

maybe make the model wannabe watch a video of the potential evils before we allow then to post a services offered thread.
btw from what i see, i think some of them are more experienced than you think

 

[scandal599]

even if that may be the case...some photographers can find ways to make the model do what he wants.

as in the case of experienced models...there is no case against the photographer then IF she is a willing party to the transaction. but this being SG and all, well, I shall not go any further...

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

well, look from the other point of view...

when nothing happen, nothing reported.
when something good happen ($$$), they don't even wanna share.
when something bad happen, we always get to eat the bullet.

back to square one...

who, what, how, are we as mod suppose to act upon, yes, ban the joker, under which rule?

*Note, he didn't break any CS rules...

next...

The girls... duty of care as a moderator... none, simply non-existence... probably ya, i see any sleezy pics i delete...

But...
did we tell the wannabe to go for these shoots? no.
did we tell the wannabe to go take off their clothes? no.
did we tell the wannabe to do extra service? no.

So?
Maybe what we didn't do is to tell them not to. Will they listen? Who knows...

We can have all the ratings stuff... in the end what i see is abuse.
They can simply 'clone' themselves to have a few good feedbacks. Make a few victims, change nicks and do it over again.

If these girls really want to, i mean really, not like some who just talk (talk is cheap), then just report to police, the more reports of such abuse will be useful against these people, and deter them from further abuse. I'll make a sticky of all the reports to warn future wannabes. No reports, what i'll base upons are just rumours and hearsays, worthless.

 

[vince123123]

I apologise if I sound negative, but some of the suggestions really do sound like a nanny state. And some suggestions put a great deal of work on the admin's/mods' plate as well as can potentially cause inconvenience to many over the acts of a few.

The best part are suggestions coming from people not even active in such photography or industry as they seek to impose their own level of morality onto others - and they will not be affected because they are neither the mods or admins who need to do the work, nor are they the people to whom the inconveniences may be subjected to.

That said, I must make clear that I don't disagree with all the suggestions put forth, just that a certain level of balance needs to be thought about and achieved before implementation of new requirements. Once again, I'll say that this is a photography forum, and hence, any decisions must be, in a case of a tie, given towards the interests of the photographers in the community, rather than any other group(s) who are seeking to use this platform for their own purposes.

Hi,

You seem very negative in trying to assist in working out something that can help in some way.

Why :dunno:

 

[vince123123]

I agree with your point of view, and I think that it is well written from a moderators or adminstrator's point of view (whether or not you were indeed giving the view in a personal or moderative capacity).

There's only so much that a platform can do, if the individuals themselves don't want to, refuse to or are blind to helping themselves.

well, look from the other point of view...

when nothing happen, nothing reported.
when something good happen ($$$), they don't even wanna share.
when something bad happen, we always get to eat the bullet.

back to square one...

who, what, how, are we as mod suppose to act upon, yes, ban the joker, under which rule?

*Note, he didn't break any CS rules...

next...

The girls... duty of care as a moderator... none, simply non-existence... probably ya, i see any sleezy pics i delete...

But...
did we tell the wannabe to go for these shoots? no.
did we tell the wannabe to go take off their clothes? no.
did we tell the wannabe to do extra service? no.

So?
Maybe what we didn't do is to tell them not to. Will they listen? Who knows...

We can have all the ratings stuff... in the end what i see is abuse.
They can simply 'clone' themselves to have a few good feedbacks. Make a few victims, change nicks and do it over again.

If these girls really want to, i mean really, not like some who just talk (talk is cheap), then just report to police, the more reports of such abuse will be useful against these people, and deter them from further abuse. I'll make a sticky of all the reports to warn future wannabes. No reports, what i'll base upons are just rumours and hearsays, worthless.

 

[HeiPiGu]

I apologise if I sound negative, but some of the suggestions really do sound like a nanny state. And some suggestions put a great deal of work on the admin's/mods' plate as well as can potentially cause inconvenience to many over the acts of a few.

I agree that CS should not go towards the direction of being a nanny forum, no forum should be. There's only so much we can do as an online community
to protect the interests of photographers/ models. And as one moderator always emphasize, CS as a photography forum is not just about model shooting.

It always take 2 hands to clap, and sometimes it's no use trying to protect someone who don't wish to be protected in the first place, as evident in many
incidents quoted by fellow CSers. We as photographers can weed out the errand shooter and whack him jialat jialat to let him know the community is on to him.

As for the models, maybe they can set up their own communication network or something to share information, send out alerts and create awareness, etc.

Just me humble opinion, don't :flame: me please.

 

[night86mare]

Just a suggestion (not sure if this might be of any use)

But would a rating system help? Kind of like on e-bay buyer/seller rating.

Each photog/model/mass order sales people etc has a "rate me" option where members can rate them.

Maybe even a testimonial box for feedback?

Of couse there is also the problem that some will not take it seriously and "rate for fun" although i think that would be a minority.

you are going to get petty member spats, like

"oh, you never give me photo, so i rate you negatively"

or "this model turned up late, also never acede to my every request, i rate her negatively" :bsmilie:

which is why you need an impartial third party

 

[night86mare]

We udstd it's impossible to eradicate such ppl from CS, but rather than sweeping matters under the carpet and burying our heads in the sand pretending all is well in CS. Some of the members are hoping that such cases could be discussed more openly and subjectively.

By allowing the culprit go unnoticed will only encourage him to get bolder next time.

:thumbsup:


in particular, when ACCUSATIONS are made, but zero happens

what does this say for coming clean and speaking up? nothing, you speak up, you risk everything, but you gain nothing. if i were the person speaking up, the next time i will just keep quiet, since serves no purpose.

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

which is why you need an impartial third party

Like U? :think:

I now in midst of looking for either a short course or another maybe 3 year course... (yes... i never stop having classes... class addict)

Should i go interview every wannabe? have a test shoot with them then i rate them and give them permit to post in Services Offered?