what photo printer?

[beluga]

I initially thought of buying the Canon S820. However, after following through the DPreview's printer forum, I decided to give the idea.

Reason. It's just not economical here compared to US. In US, people are spoiled with choices of papers and inks. In US, 4R printing's cost has come pretty close to regular photo developing. Probably 20% to 50% more expensive. Here, it's probably at least 3x. Well, it actually depends on what size you want to print. If you want to print a lot of least A4 size photos. ink jet should be cheaper compared to photo developing.

To me, I think I will only buy inkjet if CIS is easily available here and the papers are cheaper. Right now, high quality inkjet printing is still not economical. It has arrived in US, not here.

 

[nivlekx]

Originally posted by beluga
I initially thought of buying the Canon S820. However, after following through the DPreview's printer forum, I decided to give the idea.

Reason. It's just not economical here compared to US. In US, people are spoiled with choices of papers and inks. In US, 4R printing's cost has come pretty close to regular photo developing. Probably 20% to 50% more expensive. Here, it's probably at least 3x. Well, it actually depends on what size you want to print. If you want to print a lot of least A4 size photos. ink jet should be cheaper compared to photo developing.

To me, I think I will only buy inkjet if CIS is easily available here and the papers are cheaper. Right now, high quality inkjet printing is still not economical. It has arrived in US, not here.

May I know what is CIS??

What is the usual recommended resolution to print an image?? 300 dpi?? What about those printers that boast 4800 dpi nowadays, what difference does it make??

 

[beluga]

Originally posted by nivlekx


May I know what is CIS??

What is the usual recommended resolution to print an image?? 300 dpi?? What about those printers that boast 4800 dpi nowadays, what difference does it make??

CIS is Continuous Ink System. It's an add-on mechanism in which the ink cartridge is replaced with a dummy cartridge which is then connected to containers containing large amount of inks. Company like Weink sells them by the kilos. It's much more economical compared to the original ink.

When you mentioned 4800 dpi, I guess you are talking about HP's new generation of printers which is uisng PhotoREt IV. Unfortunately, it's still not comparable to the quality of those top of the line canon and epson printers. Check out in the DPreview's printer forum. There's this guy name fotographer who works in HP himself and does a lot of comparison in printing quality. He's a very knowledgable and helpful guy. Try search for his posting. I'm sure you'll get more that you can digest...

300dpi for printer printing is the most recommended, however, I think 200 dpi is still acceptable. I have no personal experience on this though.

The other reason that I gave up the idea of using inkjet is the fear of the complexity in using ICC profiles. Seems all too complex to me. I must say, costing is still the biggest deterent for me.

 

[erwinx]

Originally posted by nivlekx


May I know what is CIS??

What is the usual recommended resolution to print an image?? 300 dpi?? What about those printers that boast 4800 dpi nowadays, what difference does it make??

300 dpi is fine in most cases. Going beyond 360dpi seems a waste of time.

 

[nivlekx]

Originally posted by beluga


CIS is Continuous Ink System. It's an add-on mechanism in which the ink cartridge is replaced with a dummy cartridge which is then connected to containers containing large amount of inks. Company like Weink sells them by the kilos. It's much more economical compared to the original ink.

When you mentioned 4800 dpi, I guess you are talking about HP's new generation of printers which is uisng PhotoREt IV. Unfortunately, it's still not comparable to the quality of those top of the line canon and epson printers. Check out in the DPreview's printer forum. There's this guy name fotographer who works in HP himself and does a lot of comparison in printing quality. He's a very knowledgable and helpful guy. Try search for his posting. I'm sure you'll get more that you can digest...

300dpi for printer printing is the most recommended, however, I think 200 dpi is still acceptable. I have no personal experience on this though.

The other reason that I gave up the idea of using inkjet is the fear of the complexity in using ICC profiles. Seems all too complex to me. I must say, costing is still the biggest deterent for me.

Thanx!!!!... Checking it out right away!!!

 

[beluga]

Forgot to add another reason why I didn't get inkjet.

Unless you print quite often, the ink can evaporate very fast. Even if it doesn't, some ink like Canon's, once open, you must consume it within 6 months.

I did consider dye-sublime type but it's still very expensive here. CP-100's 4R is about a dollar each. Olympus has it too. In US, there's a brand call HiTi seems to be very popular and the cost is very close to photo developing. Unfortunately, it's not available here. Even if it does, it still won't be economical.

In conclusion, inkjet printing still have a long way to go to fight with the conventional photos in term of costing.

 

[binbeto]

Originally posted by beluga
Forgot to add another reason why I didn't get inkjet.

Unless you print quite often, the ink can evaporate very fast. Even if it doesn't, some ink like Canon's, once open, you must consume it within 6 months.

I did consider dye-sublime type but it's still very expensive here. CP-100's 4R is about a dollar each. Olympus has it too. In US, there's a brand call HiTi seems to be very popular and the cost is very close to photo developing. Unfortunately, it's not available here. Even if it does, it still won't be economical.

In conclusion, inkjet printing still have a long way to go to fight with the conventional photos in term of costing.

As explained earlier, printer is not really economical printing small size photo like 3R or 4R. The saving will come in for user that wanna print 5R (in a A4 page) or 8R or bigger.

However, they dun last long.. a few year indoor, i belive.. Even read that some print will come off it an object is used to "lightly scratch" on the surface.

 

[nivlekx]

Originally posted by binbeto


As explained earlier, printer is not really economical printing small size photo like 3R or 4R. The saving will come in for user that wanna print 5R (in a A4 page) or 8R or bigger.

However, they dun last long.. a few year indoor, i belive.. Even read that some print will come off it an object is used to "lightly scratch" on the surface.

I suppose it will be good for those who would like to put big pictures from a digital cam in a frame or on a wall then change it probably every 6 months to a year...

 

[beluga]

Originally posted by binbeto


As explained earlier, printer is not really economical printing small size photo like 3R or 4R. The saving will come in for user that wanna print 5R (in a A4 page) or 8R or bigger.

However, they dun last long.. a few year indoor, i belive.. Even read that some print will come off it an object is used to "lightly scratch" on the surface.

Yea I agree. Some people suggested using a laminating spray to give extra protection.

 

[binbeto]

Originally posted by binbeto


As explained earlier, printer is not really economical printing small size photo like 3R or 4R. The saving will come in for user that wanna print 5R (in a A4 page) or 8R or bigger.

However, they dun last long.. a few year indoor, i belive.. Even read that some print will come off it an object is used to "lightly scratch" on the surface.

I meant to said 2 5R in a A4 page.. One good thing abt ink printer is that you dun have to print at a standard size.. 4:5, 6:5, 3:1 also can.

BTW, someone mentioned using 300dpi... If 300dpi is capable, why do we need 2400 or 4800dpi printer?

 

[beluga]

Originally posted by nivlekx


I suppose it will be good for those who would like to put big pictures from a digital cam in a frame or on a wall then change it probably every 6 months to a year...

If that's the case, I'd still rather go to photo shop to print them. How many would you print in a year in this case anyway? In every 6 months, the ink would have dried up or expired too, so each time you print, you have to replace all the cartridge. Canon's S820 ink cartridge for example is about 16 bucks each. 6x would be almost 100 bucks.

 

[beluga]

Originally posted by binbeto


I meant to said 2 5R in a A4 page.. One good thing abt ink printer is that you dun have to print at a standard size.. 4:5, 6:5, 3:1 also can.

BTW, someone mentioned using 300dpi... If 300dpi is capable, why do we need 2400 or 4800dpi printer?

300 dpi is in term of the picture's resolution. 2400 or 4800 dpi is in term of the inkjet's ink droplet size resolution. It's a complex thing but it's usually understood this way...

 

[binbeto]

Originally posted by beluga


300 dpi is in term of the picture's resolution. 2400 or 4800 dpi is in term of the inkjet's ink droplet size resolution. It's a complex thing but it's usually understood this way...

Oh i see.. got it..

 

[nivlekx]

Originally posted by beluga


300 dpi is in term of the picture's resolution. 2400 or 4800 dpi is in term of the inkjet's ink droplet size resolution. It's a complex thing but it's usually understood this way...

So it would be alright if we just send a 300 dpi 8 x 11.5 picture from photoshop into the printer as opposed to one at 1200 dpi?? If so will there be any difference if we send 300 dpi and 1200 dpi from photoshop itself??

 

[tanjk]

Originally posted by binbeto


I meant to said 2 5R in a A4 page.. One good thing abt ink printer is that you dun have to print at a standard size.. 4:5, 6:5, 3:1 also can.

BTW, someone mentioned using 300dpi... If 300dpi is capable, why do we need 2400 or 4800dpi printer?

Let me try this one .... This is only my understanding, it could well be completely wrong.

Say you print at 300 dpi and your printer is capable of doing say 2400 dpi. That means your printer has 8 dots to play with for each dot in your photo.

Now say you print at 800 dpi. Your printer now has only 3 dots to play with for each dot in the photo.

Your printer only has 4 colors (or 6 in those high end ones). To get the color in the photo, it has to mix and match the individual color in appropriate proportions.

Take the situation to the extreme, you print at 2400 dpi, then your poor printer can only match each dot in your photo to the closest it has. This will translate to inaccurate color from the way I understand it. But since you print at 2400 dpi, your eyes may not make out these because the neigbouring dots' colors would have dithered it somewhat.

Bottomline, I think you have to have a balance between the dpi you set. Too low a value, you'll have very low resolution prints. Too high a value, to me, it will lead to inaccurate prints. So I guess 300dpi is the so-called industry accepted value....

Regards,
JK

 

[beluga]

Originally posted by tanjk


Let me try this one .... This is only my understanding, it could well be completely wrong.

Say you print at 300 dpi and your printer is capable of doing say 2400 dpi. That means your printer has 8 dots to play with for each dot in your photo.

Now say you print at 800 dpi. Your printer now has only 3 dots to play with for each dot in the photo.

Your printer only has 4 colors (or 6 in those high end ones). To get the color in the photo, it has to mix and match the individual color in appropriate proportions.

Take the situation to the extreme, you print at 2400 dpi, then your poor printer can only match each dot in your photo to the closest it has. This will translate to inaccurate color from the way I understand it. But since you print at 2400 dpi, your eyes may not make out these because the neigbouring dots' colors would have dithered it somewhat.

Bottomline, I think you have to have a balance between the dpi you set. Too low a value, you'll have very low resolution prints. Too high a value, to me, it will lead to inaccurate prints. So I guess 300dpi is the so-called industry accepted value....

Regards,
JK

Like I said, they are 2 different thing...

 

[beluga]

Originally posted by nivlekx


So it would be alright if we just send a 300 dpi 8 x 11.5 picture from photoshop into the printer as opposed to one at 1200 dpi?? If so will there be any difference if we send 300 dpi and 1200 dpi from photoshop itself??

I am not sure how the DPI in photoshop affects the quality here but for the printer, the DPI usually means how fine is the ink droplets. Even then, when they say 4800 dpi, it doesn't really mean that the droplet is really 1/4800 inch big. It could be larger than that. Just the dithering effect makes it look like 4800 dpi.. It's a complex and confusing thing...

 

[tanjk]

Originally posted by nivlekx


So it would be alright if we just send a 300 dpi 8 x 11.5 picture from photoshop into the printer as opposed to one at 1200 dpi?? If so will there be any difference if we send 300 dpi and 1200 dpi from photoshop itself??

Actually, I'd think it doesn't matter. What matters is the actual pixel count it (the original photo) has. When you send the picture to the printer, you just tell your printer what DPI to print it at and everything else will follow.

For example, you have a 1600x1200 pix. You want to print this picture, you just tell your printer to print at 300 DPI. Your output will be 5.33x4 inches physically. Say you really want big prints, say 12x8. You have to tell your printer that the picture is at 133 DPI, output is you'll get 12x9 inch output. The quality will suffer because you're only printing at 133 DPI.

Does all these make sense?

Regards,
JK

 

[idmax]

Originally posted by beluga
In US, there's a brand call HiTi seems to be very popular and the cost is very close to photo developing. Unfortunately, it's not available here. Even if it does, it still won't be economical.

Hey, i've the Hiti 630PL dye sub printer( think about $350 or so), got it during a computer show(think about 2~3 months back).
I saw one of the shop in Sim Lim selling the unit recently.(ground floor)
The refil pack comes with 50 4R cards and the dye sub carttrige, can get it at Challanger at $39 for a pack(maybe Sim Lim can get it cheaper).
So it's about $0.78 per 4R print out.
Still expensive but I can
1. Print anytime at home
2. Edit/crop till I'm happy with the layout
3. Best of all I don't have to worry about missing/half cut heads.
4. It's got a protective top layer.
5. Using the software provided, I just fit the pics into the 4R frame, move/fit/rotate the pics and print.
6. Now I love this, print multiple i/c~passport size photo and cut to size(save $8 from doing it in shops) and lagi best i can eg, print 3 photos of me and 3 of someone else or whatever combination i like.

What I like about it is that I don't have to worry about inks running out, when my paper runs out so does my cart, so just go out and get another pack and I'm ready to go.

Print out it great, almost like from the shop.
But offcause, garbbage in=garbage out!


cheers....

 

[beluga]

Originally posted by idmax


Hey, i've the Hiti 630PL dye sub printer( think about $350 or so), got it during a computer show(think about 2~3 months back).
I saw one of the shop in Sim Lim selling the unit recently.(ground floor)
The refil pack comes with 50 4R cards and the dye sub carttrige, can get it at Challanger at $39 for a pack(maybe Sim Lim can get it cheaper).
So it's about $0.78 per 4R print out.
Still expensive but I can print anytime at home and edit/crop till I'm happy with the layout.

What I like about it is that i don't have to worry about inks running out, when my paper runs out so does my cart, so just go out and get another pack and I'm ready to go.

Print out it great, almost like from the shop.
But offcause, garbbage in=garbage out!


cheers....

Thanks for the info! If only the cost per print is lower, it will be the killer for conventional photo printing