Wedding photography experience...

[vagabond]

I guess it's a case of who u meet. I'd say u're unlucky to meet with a bad experience. I agree it's also a matter of different cultures & different working styles. I was lucky to meet with a nice main photog for my friends' wedding. It helped that they introed us to one another & that he was shooting film & me digital. For me I try to spot where the main photog is positioned & I look for an alternative view. & my way is to look out for any relatives or friends shooting & be mindful when I shoot (helped me quite a bit to avoid double flashes). The main photog was even generous enough to let everyone have a go at the family portraits. No problems with subjects attention there was enough common sense amongst everyone to make sure the order of cameras going off.

For me, I personally think weddings are kinda personal affairs, & actually many I know get friends to help them take photos for their weddings, of course limiting the number to 2 or at most 3. There will also be other ppl taking photos with their p&s, camera phones or whatever setup they have. But ultimately, as long as everyone is mindful of one another, I think everyone can shoot pretty happily. I feel an experienced official photog will know to understand the feelings of the relatives & friends & make provisions, or even arrange, for them to capture the joy too, because weddings isn't just a job assignment, it is also a sharing of the joy of a union.

 

[Kho King]

nickmak,
1. I think your teacher didn't communicate well with the photographer. She might not have told the main photographer that she is getting another back up photographer. So when the main photographer saw you...she is kind of threaten. (just my guess) and feel not being respected (your teacher didn't trust her skill/professionalism?)

2. In group shots, honestly I would be very much distracted by a 2nd photographer. Even some other P&S also are disturbing. Not that the pics will be better in yours or others camera, but the group (people) will tend to look at your camera and not into the main photographer's camera when shooting. So, it will makes the pics some eyes are not looking straight and feel louzy... :what:

3. You were saying that the main photographer always "steal" your shots/moment/oppoturnity, but how can you let her follow you all the time? You said she was busy eating, then suddently pop in front of you to take a shot. How can she do that? Didn't you notice she is coming to your way when you were around?

4. To others, I don't think it is fair for us to call the main photographer **** by hearing only one side of the story, and it is bad for us here to judge the main photographer here without having her explaining what happened.

Lastly, most probably just a misunderstanding, and mis-communication.

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

A pro will know what to do. In fact, in a wedding, it seem like most know who is the main photographer. The guy with the confident. Can't miss that, else how to be pro? Cheers.

my friend, not every guest is as smart as you, you can 'shout' or preflesh to try to get everyone's attention, but the only time i do get everyone including 2 year old kids is that no other photographer/ wannabe is pointing their lens alongside me. period.

2. In group shots, honestly I would be very much distracted by a 2nd photographer. Even some other P&S also are disturbing. Not that the pics will be better in yours or others camera, but the group (people) will tend to look at your camera and not into the main photographer's camera when shooting. So, it will makes the pics some eyes are not looking straight and feel louzy... :what:

QUOTE]

same situations same problems

 

[insomia]

I can see you are really really sorry that you could not show your mojo. Please note that even when you tried to when you thought the ang mo female photog (amfp) was other wise pre occupied, you found that she could see the moment before you and get the shot. You should thank her for teaching you about some of your weak points and learn from her how to spot the moment and be there when it happens. Its not about equipment, its about the skills to use the equipment.
QUOTE]

from what i read abt nickmak comments, i believe it is he who was capturing the moment and she(amfp) took the opportunity to barge in for the shot. that shows that he have the 'eye' and she did not.

Lenscape

I do not think nickmak is the only one there with the eye. If the amfp was blind to the opportunties explain how she can be there and shoot before nickmak does his - assuming he was there before her ? Simpler to say she knows exactly what she is doing and can most probably spot the shoot a long time before an amueter can. If she was eating and can still get up, pick up equipment, what teleport into position and catch the moment then I do take my cap of to her. I suspect she was working, and well there may have been some misreporting on the situation. There is nothing to verify that the claims of having the eye to find the shoot the only thing that can be verify is a claim to have found a shot that never made it to capture....in other words its all in the mind .... a delusion.

 

[vince123123]

Actually I dout its as clearcut a case of infringement as you make it out to be.

It would probably turn on whether the positioning of the people etc would be considered to be a substantial part of the photograph - a question of basis of substantial reproduction is always one of fact and degree.

1. Believe it or not, you photographing a posed scene, ie family portraits setup by another photographer is in effect considered a copyright violation. In some markets you can be sued over this.

 

[Goldwing]

I had quite an opposite experience ... photographer was to nice. Friend of mine wanted me to shoot at his wedding although he had a pro photog. After I started taking a few shots, I noticed that I had been in his way and he had to wait in some cases due to space constraint and also noticed my flash firing when he shot. As a result, he missed a few good shots.
So, explained the situation to my friend and told him I won't shoot.

 

[kiwi2]

Actually, the posts here are getting larger and more complicated cos no one has a true picture of what was happening at the wedding. It's dangerous to speculate that the lady photographer was rude unreasonably.

There are many gaps in the 'story'. For eg, Nick mentioned the photographer said they were not allowed to shoot, yet we read on the many times when they defied the instructions and went on to shoot, resulting in the ang moh blocking their views. Not surprising isn't it? (Probably out of frustration or intentionally done?)

Furthermore, no mention was made as to how the bride and groom or those important people did about the whole situation. Nick only mentioned they felt as he did. But why didn't anyone say anything and just accepted the s***?

One thing that puzzles me is: Why was everyone so quietly miserable about it?

If I were the backup, I'd solve the problem amicably by simply approaching the lady photog and asked why she wouldn't allow me to take the shots. I'd listen to her reasoning and try to see if any compromise could be made. Say, maybe take only certain parts of the wedding only. Maybe she really had her valid reasons? In her culture, maybe only the pro has the right to the limelight since it's a professional job?

If I felt she was unreasonably adament, then I'd just drag the groom to talk face to face with the photographer. Is there a written contract specifying what can or cannot be taken? The fact that the groom was willing to pay so much for her service means there must be some credibility in her.

In my opinion, this sounds like a very simple case of opening my mouth and talking. Or maybe us Asians tend to be reticent about things and rather be miserable inside ourselves when there is dis-service done unto us? That's very bad.

Aiyoh, the wedding's over and one month down the road this incident doesn't matter anymore. No point fretting so much.

Just move on and learn to be bold in asserting your rights to know stuffs happening around you. Don't take s*** from others and then complain on and on later.... it could all be a misunderstanding.

 

[nickmak]

Thanks for the advices guys... I've learnt much from this... Gonna continue my writing later... Have to go offline now... Thanks anyways...

 

[eric69]

If I were the backup, I'd solve the problem amicably by simply approaching the lady photog and asked why she wouldn't allow me to take the shots. I'd listen to her reasoning and try to see if any compromise could be made. Say, maybe take only certain parts of the wedding only. Maybe she really had her valid reasons? In her culture, maybe only the pro has the right to the limelight since it's a professional job?

The main photographer has a job to do. So let her/him do it peacefully. Utlimately, he/she has to answer to the couple, not you.

If I felt she was unreasonably adament, then I'd just drag the groom to talk face to face with the photographer. Is there a written contract specifying what can or cannot be taken? The fact that the groom was willing to pay so much for her service means there must be some credibility in her.

If you are just the backup, then why bother the groom or bride on their happy occasion? The fact that they have a paying photographer and that person is not you, then that shows that you are still not "good" enough. On the couple's wedding day, the only thing the couple wants is a happy memoriable event. Not to make sure that you are happy, and certainly not to make sure that you can "practice" your photography! And let alone some stupid complaints, problems etc. from other guests, right?

I come in peace. TCW. Cheers.

 

[eric69]

The worst that any wedding couple would want on their "once-in-a-lifetime" happy occasions is to deal with some stupid complaints and problems thrown on them. After many months of preparation, the wedding day is THE day the couple can relax and enjoy the occasion. All things should be managed by the best man or the "brothers" and "sisters".

I have seem enough backup photographers / videographers creating fuss over trival matters, and that really irritated the wedd couples. As a guest, even if you are not happy about certain arrangement, the best thing one can do is to endure AFTER the wedding and make sure that the couple has a memeriable day.

 

[Deadpoet]

Well, that is why I no longer photograph weddings professionally or as a favor for afriend. Too much headache, and especially when p&s got popular.

When I was working as a pro wedding photographer, the worse thing is to have a backup that I don;t know before hand. Usually, I ask the bride if there is going to be a backup, and if so, I would like to talk to him/her first. Work out some working arrangement before hand. BTW, I started as a backup also, but was fortunately to have a very helpful and friendly pro who actually helped me get started.

That said, I had done shoots that I am the exclusive photographer, even then, there were always ppl snapping away. And it's ok, as long as those being photograph, especially those group shots, that they understand to follow my instructions.

BTW, I used to do this in the US. And yes, you can get sued if you botched your job. But being rude is no excuse. That is definately not how all American photographers behave.

Deadpoet

 

[nickmak]

Then how do you become better at wedding photography? I believe all of us had to start somewhere... Sometimes be an assistant, sometimes be a backup... right? I chose to be the backup route, to learn from this photographer, but from what I had experienced, I was not too keen about the photographer being a little too rude, especially to the groom's father, let alone anybody else... Why didn't we complain? Well, its a happy occasion right? We didn't wanna spoil it so we didn't do anything about it... We had to sit through this though...

I only wanted to know if wedding photographers are like that or if I had a bad experience... that's all...

To eric69: Please note, I did endure the rudeness and that obnoxious behaviour for the whole wedding, and here is where I'm giving my feedback and asking the experienced people here whether this happens usually or not, so I can learn about it. Please don't assume I'm complaining without any cause. I wish you had been in my shoes to really understand how everybody, including the groom and the videographer, had felt about it.

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

Then how do you become better at wedding photography? I believe all of us had to start somewhere... Sometimes be an assistant, sometimes be a backup... right? I chose to be the backup route, to learn from this photographer, but from what I had experienced, I was not too keen about the photographer being a little too rude, especially to the groom's father, let alone anybody else... Why didn't we complain? Well, its a happy occasion right? We didn't wanna spoil it so we didn't do anything about it... We had to sit through this though...

I only wanted to know if wedding photographers are like that or if I had a bad experience... that's all...

To eric69: Please note, I did endure the rudeness and that obnoxious behaviour for the whole wedding, and here is where I'm giving my feedback and asking the experienced people here whether this happens usually or not, so I can learn about it. Please don't assume I'm complaining without any cause. I wish you had been in my shoes to really understand how everybody, including the groom and the videographer, had felt about it.

you had a bad day, not everyone is like that.

 

[catchlights]

Ai yah... then if its like that, what's the backup for then? Doesn't it defeat the purpose and the existence of a backup photographer?

Then how do you become better at wedding photography? I believe all of us had to start somewhere... Sometimes be an assistant, sometimes be a backup... right? I chose to be the backup route, to learn from this photographer,

That’s how the way they work, like it or not, you still have to fellow.
Maybe other wedding photographers you met don’t impose this kind of things, but today she is the photographer of your teachers’ wedding, she call the shot. ,

Is all right for a backup photographer come back empty handed, sometime the backup photographer only serve like a spare tyre. In the first place does she agreed to have a backup photographer? Have you spare a though for her? At her rate/class/category/standard of what ever, does she need a guy never shooting wedding before as a backup photographer? She doesn’t allow others to shoot. Why don’t let her do it her way? Why don’t help her by not shooting?

My words here are hard to swallow for some of you. Nick I sympathize what your have encounter, But from what you replied, seen like you miss out what many other have share here.

Hi all, in a wedding, we should put the benefits of the wedding couple in first priority, no matter what role you are playing on that day, failing to do so, you may only make people miserable around you.

 

[Snowcrash]

I only wanted to know if wedding photographers are like that or if I had a bad experience... that's all...

Your case is a unique one so far. None of the wedding photographers I met/know/shoot with behave like the one you describe.

Happy Shooting!

BTW had you delivered your photos to the couple and seen the ones taken by the main photographer?

 

[nickmak]

Your case is a unique one so far. None of the wedding photographers I met/know/shoot with behave like the one you describe.

Happy Shooting!

BTW had you delivered your photos to the couple and seen the ones taken by the main photographer?

Hi,

I have PS'd the photos and will go to a printer to print a few 12x18's as a wedding gift for them... The couple are still on honeymoon so I have no teacher taking my class for the rest of this week... hehe...

Anyway, I really have to thank all you guys for the advice and help you have given me, even though some were a little bit hard to swallow... I guess I'll have another chance where the experience might be different...

Regards,
Nick

 

[nickmak]

Hi,

Just wondered if these images work for you...

#1

#2

Managed to get a few pictures out.. My teacher doesn't mind a few going out... as long as the couple's faces aren't fully shown... hehe...

Regards,
Nick

 

[Bean]

This is OT... But would like to comment on the kind of character most likely a photographer have... Just my personal opinion... not a flame...

Compared to a lot of hobbies, I would say photography is quite an individualistic one. In photography, the environment do not encourage team work etc... Many a times, one have to joist around with another for the job, for the assignment, for the best position etc...

There are pressure from the picture desk if you are sent out to cover a news.
There are pressure to deliver the goods for every assignment.
There are pressure to be selected one to cover your favorite idol.

It is either you or me.

Plus the fact that the number of photographers are getting more and more compared to a decade ago... Things do get worse.

But of course, there are exceptions like ClubSnap where there are people sharing around; knowledge, equipment, assignments etc...

Just a general observation. What do you think?

 

[nickmak]

This is OT... But would like to comment on the kind of character most likely a photographer have... Just my personal opinion... not a flame...

Compared to a lot of hobbies, I would say photography is quite an individualistic one. In photography, the environment do not encourage team work etc... Many a times, one have to joist around with another for the job, for the assignment, for the best position etc...

There are pressure from the picture desk if you are sent out to cover a news.
There are pressure to deliver the goods for every assignment.
There are pressure to be selected one to cover your favorite idol.

It is either you or me.

Plus the fact that the number of photographers are getting more and more compared to a decade ago... Things do get worse.

But of course, there are exceptions like ClubSnap where there are people sharing around; knowledge, equipment, assignments etc...

Just a general observation. What do you think?

Well, one point is true, two people cannot share one viewfinder right? :bsmilie: