what's the point of a ratings system when all that everybody wants to hear is "good work" "nice photos" ?
Wedding Photographers Board
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alright guys (and gals), I think this thread has gotten abit OT. This is not about RATINGS.
It's more about being protected as a photographer.
There has been quite a number of discussions, and 1 recent barrage of 'opinions' w.r.t someone charging only $500. So many people got sensitve. I don't deny that I was taken aback by the too-good-to-be-true offer as well as the fact that there are people out there who are spoiling the market.
One common scenario:
Why do couples expect to be charged at very low rates:
1. coz there are ppl out there who charge cheaper
2. there are other high costs involved (dinner, gown, etc)
3. digital is a means of unlimited shots (couples do not know abt the lifespan of our toys)
4. Bridal shops are offering their photogs for low prices.
Another scenario:
What do couples expect from the wedding photo, regardless of 'professionalism'?
1. Good quality prints,
2. they must look beautiful
3. digital can do anything what! can take off my pimple right?
THere are some unreasonable couples who expect the pictures to come out all smilie and 'happy mood' when it's so damn hard to make the husband/wife SMILE in the first place!
There needs to be some kind of Affiliation, okay, let's not call it a Board, let's call it.... The Wedding Photographers' Guild.
Guild -- "An association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards."
This will protect us... so that we photographers will not be bullied.
Yes i know this is a free-market. This also means that one can choose to join or not to join this proposed guild.
The advantages of such a guild -- more professionalism, your copyrights can be protected, you can charge whatever you want ---' you pay peanuts, my standard is peanuts, so don't complain and expect me to be Herb Ritts', or 'i charge high price, you respect my style and professionalism, i'll do my best. anything **** up, i'm sorry.. the contract is signed.'
disclaimer: ****-up here means things like the couple didn't smile or somehow they got lazy eyes or this type of things lah... as a true photog, one should always be prepared for '****-ups' like extra batts, extra film, CF cards, etc.. .the quality of your prints should not be compromised also (print from labs or good paper -- not those thin photocopy paper lah). Joining the Guild means reputation is at stake...
SO..... this actually protects the photog ok? Understand?
It's more about being protected as a photographer.
There has been quite a number of discussions, and 1 recent barrage of 'opinions' w.r.t someone charging only $500. So many people got sensitve. I don't deny that I was taken aback by the too-good-to-be-true offer as well as the fact that there are people out there who are spoiling the market.
One common scenario:
Why do couples expect to be charged at very low rates:
1. coz there are ppl out there who charge cheaper
2. there are other high costs involved (dinner, gown, etc)
3. digital is a means of unlimited shots (couples do not know abt the lifespan of our toys)
4. Bridal shops are offering their photogs for low prices.
Another scenario:
What do couples expect from the wedding photo, regardless of 'professionalism'?
1. Good quality prints,
2. they must look beautiful
3. digital can do anything what! can take off my pimple right?
THere are some unreasonable couples who expect the pictures to come out all smilie and 'happy mood' when it's so damn hard to make the husband/wife SMILE in the first place!
There needs to be some kind of Affiliation, okay, let's not call it a Board, let's call it.... The Wedding Photographers' Guild.
Guild -- "An association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards."
This will protect us... so that we photographers will not be bullied.
Yes i know this is a free-market. This also means that one can choose to join or not to join this proposed guild.
The advantages of such a guild -- more professionalism, your copyrights can be protected, you can charge whatever you want ---' you pay peanuts, my standard is peanuts, so don't complain and expect me to be Herb Ritts', or 'i charge high price, you respect my style and professionalism, i'll do my best. anything **** up, i'm sorry.. the contract is signed.'
disclaimer: ****-up here means things like the couple didn't smile or somehow they got lazy eyes or this type of things lah... as a true photog, one should always be prepared for '****-ups' like extra batts, extra film, CF cards, etc.. .the quality of your prints should not be compromised also (print from labs or good paper -- not those thin photocopy paper lah). Joining the Guild means reputation is at stake...
SO..... this actually protects the photog ok? Understand?
If you're a potential client, would you pay a "pro" who shoot craps $2k to do the job or an amatuer who has an outstanding portfolio $500 doing the same thing? Base on the proposed "board prices" and after looking at their portfolios of course.
Shooting weddings aren't heart bypass surgeries. You don't need a special register or training to click the shutter. It's a subjective endevour, unlike heart surgeries where this vessels go where it should.
Look at the work of the individual and decide for yourself if he/she is worth the price for the job instead. Why is that so hard to understand or seen practised?
"Protect the photographers"??? you must be kidding right?
Shooting weddings aren't heart bypass surgeries. You don't need a special register or training to click the shutter. It's a subjective endevour, unlike heart surgeries where this vessels go where it should.
Look at the work of the individual and decide for yourself if he/she is worth the price for the job instead. Why is that so hard to understand or seen practised?
"Protect the photographers"??? you must be kidding right?
A "guild" will not prevent or reduce the possibility/impact of the following:
One common scenario:
Why do couples expect to be charged at very low rates:
1. coz there are ppl out there who charge cheaper
2. there are other high costs involved (dinner, gown, etc)
3. digital is a means of unlimited shots (couples do not know abt the lifespan of our toys)
4. Bridal shops are offering their photogs for low prices.
One common scenario:
Why do couples expect to be charged at very low rates:
1. coz there are ppl out there who charge cheaper
2. there are other high costs involved (dinner, gown, etc)
3. digital is a means of unlimited shots (couples do not know abt the lifespan of our toys)
4. Bridal shops are offering their photogs for low prices.
i always tell people who approach me for wedding photography
don't look at how much i charge. don't look at how much anybody charges. look at their photographs first. you like, then you hire. afterall you're going to want to look at them in 10 years time and smile, not think "i paid $xxx that time to shoot this ****". anyway your wedding banquet already nearly $20000 right ? so what's $1000 more ?
don't look at how much i charge. don't look at how much anybody charges. look at their photographs first. you like, then you hire. afterall you're going to want to look at them in 10 years time and smile, not think "i paid $xxx that time to shoot this ****". anyway your wedding banquet already nearly $20000 right ? so what's $1000 more ?
To a certain extent, we can classify photography as something "artistic" in a certain sense. How do we rate or put a price band on some artistic work?
Given a set/series of wedding photographs, some people may say they'll pay like $500 for it. Some others may say they'll pay like $2000 for it. So, what should it be? $500 or $2000? Or should it be the average of $500 and $2000. Can we actually put a price band saying like this kind of artistic work should be given price band A....and another kind of artistic work should be given price band B?
If your clients seem to be declining and people are going to this so-called "cheaper freelancers", maybe it'll be a good idea to take a look at their work. For all you know, these "cheaper freelancers" are producing work which is of equal quality to yours if not better.
Put yourself in the client's shoes. For the same quality of work, would u prefer to pay $500 or $2000 for it?
Given a set/series of wedding photographs, some people may say they'll pay like $500 for it. Some others may say they'll pay like $2000 for it. So, what should it be? $500 or $2000? Or should it be the average of $500 and $2000. Can we actually put a price band saying like this kind of artistic work should be given price band A....and another kind of artistic work should be given price band B?
If your clients seem to be declining and people are going to this so-called "cheaper freelancers", maybe it'll be a good idea to take a look at their work. For all you know, these "cheaper freelancers" are producing work which is of equal quality to yours if not better.
Put yourself in the client's shoes. For the same quality of work, would u prefer to pay $500 or $2000 for it?
catchlights said:
And that's precisely why I do not agree on grading individual photogs. Rather, have a schedule of rates so that people can get a perspective on how much to charge.
But maybe some of you think that this is not a good idea too, so in that case, like someone said... just get used to the whole situation. Quit complaining...
Matt2004 said:
How do we classify whether a photographer is an amateur, semi-pro, professional? While a client may find a photographer's work very pro, another may find the same work rather amatuerish.
Bee Hedge said:
We can generally classify them as pro if they work full time, semi if part time and amateur if they are hobbyist and doesn't depend on photography for income. As for the level of skills, you can grade them in terms of no. of years involved.
Agreed, this seems very simplistic and serious discussion need to be conducted if people are serious about doing it.
Matt2004 said:
IMHO, I dun think this is a fair assessment on how much we should charge because the price should be based on quality of work and not whether we are into this fulltime or partime or for that matter number of years involved.
U can charge as high as 8K (theres mkt).. but of cos, yr work have to impress clients... theres nothing as spoil mkt ler.. but of cos not to the extend as 300 for actual day wedding.. thats too much .
when they canx even accept critiques and straight away delete their threadsequitur said:
Wahahhahahaha!!!
after this wedding photographers board, what's next? BUY SELL board? grading the reliability of the seller and check his gear one by one and registered all of his equipment under CS, then when he wants to sell them, members can have a better idea how the condition of the items are (based on CS rating) and give appropiate pricing...this way we can monitor and control the quality and consistency in the buy/sell market... :bsmilie:
Instead of a 'grading' board or guild whatever...it's better to have a portfolio board.
each photog has their own taste thus everyone shoots differently...showcasing some of their best works will be better...without any ratings...add in their e-mail add for contact purposes. if got webby, better still.
it'll be like a directory of wedding photogs in CS...with portfolio, contact, website...NO RATINGS...man, it becomes like advertising liao
but then again...do it, if it really serves a GOOD purpose. period.
each photog has their own taste thus everyone shoots differently...showcasing some of their best works will be better...without any ratings...add in their e-mail add for contact purposes. if got webby, better still.
it'll be like a directory of wedding photogs in CS...with portfolio, contact, website...NO RATINGS...man, it becomes like advertising liao
but then again...do it, if it really serves a GOOD purpose. period.
Sion
Senior Member
Sion said:
What kind of protection I have from the day I become professional? Nothing! But then, today I am still practicing.
Sometime we have to learn a lesson in a hard way, likes not collecting deposit or advance from customers. Just fellow common business practice should be fine, remember we are running a business, we have to make sure business is profitable.
Our rate should be all the operating cost, equipments investment, stock cost, plus the profit we expect to make. Divided by how many assignments we can secure in a period of time.
If you are talk about rate for amateur, how to set a rate for them? Most of them dont factor a lot of things as cost of operation. $400 for wedding shoot, they may think is good money to make. But is not to a professional at all. So just let them charge whatever they like, dont go and compete prices with them. Sure have someone will offer $10 cheaper than you. Remember: This is a free market; supply is equal to demand.
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