Reflections on the 5D Mark III: What worked (really well) and what sucked

[surrephoto]

Hi all.

I spent 3 fun months with canon system again to refresh myself from the stressful corporate behaviour of the dark-side, but currently i'm back there with the D4.

Yesterday a friend asked me "Bro any reasons you switching to D4, any major complaints about the 5D3?"... I answer "Not really lol".

Often it is said that one does not need the 5D Mark 3 as the 5D Mark 2 is adequate for what he/she does... but if you are a events/wedding photographer, amateur or professionally please consider these points;

1. Improved auto-focus precision. It is not the speed, but the precision and expansion choices. The spot-AF mode is really useful and trumps nikon in precision by a notch (on a good lens).
2. Improved AF array to reach the edges. Composition easily suffers when one has little time to recompose in the 5D2.
3. Improved AWB & JPEG rendering. Canon decided that it is better to err on the side of warm, and it has worked very well for the 5D3.
4. Improved E-TTL Flash exposure accuracy. I cannot help but stress that this is more important than all the above points. Especially if one shoots mainly flash as dominant light.
5. Improved buttons and ergonomics. Especially the customizable DOF-preview button which can be used to quick switch between AI-SERVO <-> ONE SHOT AF. This is a killer feature.

Always consider what is a value-added characteristic of your camera and what is a liability & risk... there are too many factors in the 5D2 that pose it as a risky device to use for events/wedding work since the 5D3 has been released. It was adequate 3 years back but times change.

However if you a hobbyist shooting mainly street photography, landscape, family events, the 5D Mark II is still a really great camera. I would also not discount a full-time professional who uses a 5D Mark II for architectural photography, or simple a 2nd camera or a pro back-up.

Hope my comments will be welcomed.

Update:

I forgot to mention what sucked about the 5D Mark III imho...

1. Overly strong JPEG noise reduction, anything more than the lowest setting is too much and dark details all gone.
2. Rather bad latitude when under-exposed even 1-stop. Pulling the darkest shadows more than 2 stops will result in a green colour cast in LR 4.1. They actually reduced banding in the final version of LR 4.1 which might be a trade off. To me this is rather unacceptable but you could always do black & white.
3. No auto exposure compensation when using Manual mode + Auto ISO. Had to result to using Av mode + Auto ISO and limiting shutter speeds in the ISO menu. This will obviously be fixed as an incremental upgrade in the 5D Mark 4.
4. Prefers to under-expose instead of over-expose (more for jpeg shooters really) although the sensor does better in highlights. The highlights gradation of 5D3 is really good though.
5. Confusing settings menu... as though a half-hearted attempt of copying nikon's much better organised menus. Canon used to be easier to use than nikon but now it's the opposite.
6. Never really reaches 6 FPS when using AI-servo and focus priority tracking. Getting 4.5 FPS would be an optimistic estimate. But hey, the hit-rate is not that bad at 4.5 FPS (compared to MK2).

Btw a joke to add... for all who don't know how to jump between the menus and not need to scroll through every darned sub-menu, just hit the Q button. Lol!

 

[nedy77]

Your comments are definitely welcomed. I thinks it's a good and fair "comparison" between the mark 2 and 3

Now it just boils down to whether someone feels that the slight improvement is worth the extra money. As for me, Once i have that little bit extra cash to spend, I'll definitely get the mark 3

 

[neech7]

a risky device to use for events/wedding work since the 5D3 has been released. It was adequate 3 years back but times change.

Your statements imply that the nature of events and weddings have changed. I highly doubt that. Had Canon as a company collapsed before the 5D3 was released, many event and wedding photographers would just continue to use their 5D2s to shoot the events and weddings. The cameras themselves probably work as they have over the last 3 years. There was a time when one AF point was state of the art, and ISO 800 film was a technological miracle. What happened was you got a taste of a better tool to do the job, and all of a sudden the ancient 5D2 becomes 'a risky device' to use? One day the 5D Mark 9 will be released with 500 AF points and super clean ISO 1,024,000, then the 5D3 becomes a risky device to use for events and weddings as well?

 

[spinworkxroy]

I don't think nature of weddings have changed but people's perception and expectations have&#8230;as with any other technology, expectations always grow with it.

 

[hammie]

:3 just embrace the technology ... no point comparing before and after... newer mostly are always better

 

[avsquare]

Your statements imply that the nature of events and weddings have changed. I highly doubt that. Had Canon as a company collapsed before the 5D3 was released, many event and wedding photographers would just continue to use their 5D2s to shoot the events and weddings. The cameras themselves probably work as they have over the last 3 years. There was a time when one AF point was state of the art, and ISO 800 film was a technological miracle. What happened was you got a taste of a better tool to do the job, and all of a sudden the ancient 5D2 becomes 'a risky device' to use? One day the 5D Mark 9 will be released with 500 AF points and super clean ISO 1,024,000, then the 5D3 becomes a risky device to use for events and weddings as well?

Sadly speaking, if the above scenario is true, then yes, 5D3 would become a risky device.

It's the same right now. You have the 1DX, 5D3, D4, D800 and what not. These would be the probable equipments that your competitors will generally use. While they are using the latest technology to produce the best possible pictures for their clients, will you, continue to use your once-state-of-the-art 1AF point camera with the once-legendary ISO800 flim?

Unless your client appreciates flim pictures or using flim is intended, I doubt your clients will accept it. Let's be honest to ourselves - your clients won't pay you big bucks to see you come with ancient cameras and accepting flim products, even though your work or composition may be great. This is even true within the Singapore context. Your customers may not know photography and your gears inside out, but they have the basic knowledge on what's the current technological standards and their expectation grow with technological advancements. Try shoot the same picture on ISO3200 on both 5D3 and probably, 1Ds Mark III or Mark II without NR and show it to 20 random person or colleagues and ask them to pick their choices. I don't need to be the Captain Obvious and tell you the result.

Of course, I won't say that with the release of 5D3, it instantly make 5D2 a worthless product. It's still a great machine on it's own. Unfortunately, if your competitors are already moving on to embrace the new technology to produce their best for their clients and you don't, you may find yourself on the losing end. Of course, unless you are a big name, won some award or just have a special style and produce great pictures, you may still have your edge. But the truth is, majority don't have such unique edge and in a place like Singapore, we are just overflooded with photographers. To say on top of the game, not only your skills must be improving, your tools must also upgrade to match your competitors and of course, to meet your client's expectations.

 

[Kiwira]

welcome back to the dark side brudda hoho O3O/

 

[zixaw]

When you hire a photographer, do you ask what gear he or she uses?

I don't and have never even thought about it. I give them my requirements and don't care how or what they use to achieve what I want.

 

[NotCooked]

When you hire a photographer, do you ask what gear he or she uses?

I don't and have never even thought about it. I give them my requirements and don't care how or what they use to achieve what I want.

unfortunately not every1 thinks that way and I dont blame them. With so many GWCs around, many clients want the best bang for their buck and also want to ensure that they have an experienced and well-equipped photographer. I am not saying that 5dMkII is a bad camera or what. In fact, it is an excellent camera still imo. But what i feel is that it is normal for a client to ask what gear you use.

Would you like to pay someone thousands to cover your wedding and have him show up on the day itself with only a 1100D and a kit lens? Even if i give all your requirements and expectations, I would have a really bad feeling that he is not going to deliver. You can sue him for not meeting your requirements after your wedding but that special once-in-a-lifetime event is over and there is no way you can redo it (unless touchwood something happens).

In fact, many first time clients of mine had asked for my list of gear before they engaged me and it is more of a form of assurance to them.

 

[zixaw]

unfortunately not every1 thinks that way and I dont blame them. With so many GWCs around, many clients want the best bang for their buck and also want to ensure that they have an experienced and well-equipped photographer. I am not saying that 5dMkII is a bad camera or what. In fact, it is an excellent camera still imo. But what i feel is that it is normal for a client to ask what gear you use.

Would you like to pay someone thousands to cover your wedding and have him show up on the day itself with only a 1100D and a kit lens? Even if i give all your requirements and expectations, I would have a really bad feeling that he is not going to deliver. You can sue him for not meeting your requirements after your wedding but that special once-in-a-lifetime event is over and there is no way you can redo it (unless touchwood something happens).

In fact, many first time clients of mine had asked for my list of gear before they engaged me and it is more of a form of assurance to them.

I look at a photographer's previous works to decide rather than what gear he or she uses. Isn't that what portfolios are for?

Maybe next time when someone asks I will just show them images of all my cameras and lenses.

 

[yrh0413]

I never look down on photographers who use cheap gears, as I have seen enough of my friends around me who started photography with a 5D2, 7D, or even 1D. Having the latest gears simply means the photographer can afford it; gear list is never an indication of the photographer's skills.

With DSLRs being so affordable these days I rather scrutinize the photographer's portfolio than to look at his gear list...

 

[Halfmoon]

I never look down on photographers who use cheap gears, as I have seen enough of my friends around me who started photography with a 5D2, 7D, or even 1D. Having the latest gears simply means the photographer can afford it; gear list is never an indication of the photographer's skills.

With DSLRs being so affordable these days I rather scrutinize the photographer's portfolio than to look at his gear list...

Though im in agreement with you, we are the minority... most singaporean go for branded, reputation, ratings.... which might not reflect the true value...

In photography, it is skills n not the gear, but those without photography knowledge might not even know the diff... some photographers might not know too...

 

[NotCooked]

Though im in agreement with you, we are the minority... most singaporean go for branded, reputation, ratings.... which might not reflect the true value...

In photography, it is skills n not the gear, but those without photography knowledge might not even know the diff... some photographers might not know too...

Yep... From photographers to photographers yes portfolio speaks all.. but to people who do not know photography, somehow sometimes these clients value equipment more than portfolio....

im not saying that anyone of us is wrong or anything.. just highlighting that are people out there that do look at equipment only and judge from there...

personally I do look at portfolio too =)

 

[Ah Pao]

Thanks for the honest reflections and opinions. I think it helps those who are still considering whether to purchase the camera for their usage.

The camera is still but just a tool. Even the 5D3 has it's limitations and drawbacks - but we cannot deny that it is a superior camera compared to the Mk II. The noise suppression at high ISO speeds and new AF system do open up new possibilities for low-light photography, which many event photographers would probably think it's a godsend (well, at least to me. )

Whether or not equipment matters in a job...let's just say that it is always a combination of having the right tools for the person with the right skills. Having the best tool means you're less limited by the capabilities of the camera.

 

[daredevil123]

Question is this... when wedding or event photographers go out to meet a potential client... do the carry all their gear with them and lay them out on the table? I don't. Do you?

So if you don't, how will your potential clients be able to judge you based on your equipment? And trust me, they never ask you what camera body or lens you use. In the end, the portfolio and photographer attitude is what counts. Period.

 

[nedy77]

Yep... From photographers to photographers yes portfolio speaks all.. but to people who do not know photography, somehow sometimes these clients value equipment more than portfolio....
=)

So true,I know someone working in a government agency, she's in charge of organizing events. There was once she used a photographer who came with a dslr(without battery grip), and a small flash, that's all.

During the event, a senior from the finance dept sacastically said to her:"oh that's what we paid for"

From then on, she get a photographer with two bodies with grip, large flash,external flash batteries,rapid strap ........

 

[NotCooked]

So true,I know someone working in a government agency, she's in charge of organizing events. There was once she used a photographer who came with a dslr(without battery grip), and a small flash, that's all.

During the event, a senior from the finance dept sacastically said to her:"oh that's what we paid for"

From then on, she get a photographer with two bodies with grip, large flash,external flash batteries,rapid strap ........

Yep this is a good example of clients that prioritize equipment over portfolio which was what I was trying to explain.. thx for sharing =)

 

[surrephoto]

As an average wedding couple client, you probably don't know much about equipment, so knowing that your photographer is using the "latest and greatest" is self-consolation.

As a wedding/events photographer, if having the "latest and greatest" means you secure more clients and get more keepers but doesn't burn your pocket, there is no reason to not do so. 5D2 -> 5D3 upgrade is a mere $2k investment, it's not a loss.

As a wedding/events photographer who uses older equipment, if you do not mind occasional scrutiny and criticism by couples who demand you to use the latest and greatest, you are free to take only clients that you comfortable with. If you are choosing your clients, I'm happy for you because you obviously have enough jobs to sustain, or have a well paying full-time job.

As a wedding/events photographer, if a lower hit-rate doesn't mean a lower paycheck, I see a reason for you not to want to upgrade. But if your work demands that every scene is flawlessly captured (assume your skill is beyond the camera), it is your RESPONSIBILITY to make wise upgrades.

Often it is not about clients that prioritize equipment over portfolio. What does portfolio mean? Your best work right? You sure you can promise a 95% hit-rate? To me an increase hit-rate is increased security to the fragile photographer's rice-bowl. Think carefully and you will understand why many Singaporean PGs are either gear-heads or man-behind-the-camera. Group 1 uses their gear to impress and secure clients, and group 2 mainly cares about ROI. This is a very Singaporean problem. You become a true professional if you can juggle between both.

And for those concerned, please don't hide the fact you only care about ROI with "it's the man behind the camera". It's getting old and rather egotistic at times.

 

[surrephoto]

Thanks for the honest reflections and opinions. I think it helps those who are still considering whether to purchase the camera for their usage.

The camera is still but just a tool. Even the 5D3 has it's limitations and drawbacks - but we cannot deny that it is a superior camera compared to the Mk II. The noise suppression at high ISO speeds and new AF system do open up new possibilities for low-light photography, which many event photographers would probably think it's a godsend (well, at least to me. )

Whether or not equipment matters in a job...let's just say that it is always a combination of having the right tools for the person with the right skills. Having the best tool means you're less limited by the capabilities of the camera.

I agree with you. Having the best tools would give you much more breathing room to work with. I'm sure you know the pain of using a camera that can't catch up with you.

 

[avsquare]

As an average wedding couple client, you probably don't know much about equipment, so knowing that your photographer is using the "latest and greatest" is self-consolation.

As a wedding/events photographer, if having the "latest and greatest" means you secure more clients and get more keepers but doesn't burn your pocket, there is no reason to not do so. 5D2 -> 5D3 upgrade is a mere $2k investment, it's not a loss.

As a wedding/events photographer who uses older equipment, if you do not mind occasional scrutiny and criticism by couples who demand you to use the latest and greatest, you are free to take only clients that you comfortable with. If you are choosing your clients, I'm happy for you because you obviously have enough jobs to sustain, or have a well paying full-time job.

As a wedding/events photographer, if a lower hit-rate doesn't mean a lower paycheck, I see a reason for you not to want to upgrade. But if your work demands that every scene is flawlessly captured (assume your skill is beyond the camera), it is your RESPONSIBILITY to make wise upgrades.

Often it is not about clients that prioritize equipment over portfolio. What does portfolio mean? Your best work right? You sure you can promise a 95% hit-rate? To me an increase hit-rate is increased security to the fragile photographer's rice-bowl. Think carefully and you will understand why many Singaporean PGs are either gear-heads or man-behind-the-camera. Group 1 uses their gear to impress and secure clients, and group 2 mainly cares about ROI. This is a very Singaporean problem. You become a true professional if you can juggle between both.

And for those concerned, please don't hide the fact you only care about ROI with "it's the man behind the camera". It's getting old and rather egotistic at times.

In full agreement with you bro.