Oxley Rise ban from taking photo?

[bayusuputra]

if we always believe that we're not in the wrong, but others always are, then we've doomed ourselves to selfishness and defensiveness and ignorance.

TS, put yourself in the lady's shoes. yes she's wrong to chase you away.

but also, think. White doesn't mean just American or British. it also means Jews (because of their fair skin, although they're more middle-eastern)

anyone of those people, their countries are suffering right now from strife and war and civil unrest..

let's be more understanding to their needs. although we do no know what her concerns are, let's be more broad-minded and not close-minded.

at least you're not arguing with her right? let it rest bro

but i don't think that can make the case to chase people off.. TS said he's photographing old buildings and not the private properties.. in that case all the malays would be angry if RWC took his photographs at sultan mosque, because the muslim countries in the middle east are fighting wars right now..

i think she's just being irritating, la.. if we keep on following what the guard said, i think in less than 5 years, we can't take any photograph in singapore.. because the tenants in MBS will say they are angmohs and would not want their room to be photographed..

when in doubt, just clarify.. if proven wrong, then stop, but if not, just continue what you are doing, because it is not wrong..
if i were the TS, i will just ask the guard to take me to the management, show all my photos, and ask whether there is any specific rule(s) that dictate photography is not allowed on the public road in the vicinity, and/or call the police to clarify.. of course, if proven wrong, then stop.. but even then, they still have no right to ask you to delete your photos.. first, because it is your intellectual property, second, it was made before you know any of those rule exist.. best thing is by your own initiative, you delete the photos, but if you don't want, you have no obligation to do so.. if they insist, it is a breach of intellectual property.. if they take your camera/push you/force you.. then you can file complain of physical/property abuse..

that's the general, i maybe wrong (and please correct me if i'm wrong).. but tis is what i read from a recent article about photographer's right in singapore..

 

[kei1309]

Sometimes I get quite tickled when people reply "Read up such and such ... ... before you ask/do something something."

Also, why assume that Jews are sensitive to photographer because of wars in middle east? ?

i didn't say the Jews are sensitive to photographers in the area. i didn't even call her a Jew. i just mentioned that it's near a Synagogue and Jews worship there. and there's unrest in the middle east. i just said in a different way that it's a possibility.

in that sense, i didn't assume. you did.

let's put it this way. i hate taking sides, and i'd rather debate. but if you're putting words in my mouth... then... mind your words.

besides. this is TS' side of the story. and this is TS' "recollection" of what he did. he might have modified his story so he's the victim, or might have inadvertently pointed his camera and snapped in the direction of some sensitive building.

unless you saw TS that day, saw what he did, why are you all believing that TS is really not at fault?

innocent until proven guilty my dear friend. it's only TS' side of the story. even i can create an account blasting some random Caucasian lady for shouting at me, and even more, to a greater extent, i can exaggerate because there are no witnesses, only her, and a security guard.

rather than just sympathize with with TS, does anyone have any proof that what TS said is true? or true to the extent he has typed here?
has anyone gone down there to verify?

it's very easy to vilify someone. all you need is to say something damning, even if it doesn't hold any water.

and it's very easy to look at things from one side, without first considering what's going on on the other.

 

[kei1309]

but i don't think that can make the case to chase people off.. TS said he's photographing old buildings and not the private properties.. in that case all the malays would be angry if RWC took his photographs at sultan mosque, because the muslim countries in the middle east are fighting wars right now..

i think she's just being irritating, la.. if we keep on following what the guard said, i think in less than 5 years, we can't take any photograph in singapore.. because the tenants in MBS will say they are angmohs and would not want their room to be photographed..

when in doubt, just clarify.. if proven wrong, then stop, but if not, just continue what you are doing, because it is not wrong..
if i were the TS, i will just ask the guard to take me to the management, show all my photos, and ask whether there is any specific rule(s) that dictate photography is not allowed on the public road in the vicinity, and/or call the police to clarify.. of course, if proven wrong, then stop.. but even then, they still have no right to ask you to delete your photos.. first, because it is your intellectual property, second, it was made before you know any of those rule exist.. best thing is by your own initiative, you delete the photos, but if you don't want, you have no obligation to do so.. if they insist, it is a breach of intellectual property.. if they take your camera/push you/force you.. then you can file complain of physical/property abuse..

that's the general, i maybe wrong (and please correct me if i'm wrong).. but tis is what i read from a recent article about photographer's right in singapore..

i go past Oxley Rise and Oxley Road on an almost daily basis. the only old buildings along the road are the houses and shop houses on one side, and newer buildings like offices on the other.
anyways, TS mentioned "shooting" into the Jewish Communal hall. this isn't about right to shoot.. if people have been asked to leave before, then there is an issue with them. Jews are private people, treasure their privacy and are quite an exclusive community.

this is more on respect of religion and race. what other religions and races practice, might not be what another practices. Mosques, Churches and Temples might allow photography within and without the premises, but other religions might frown upon it.

just because you believe that papayas, mangoes and apples taste nice, doesn't mean that oranges will taste nice to you as well

by the way, i didn't say white people are at fault neither did i say white people are like that.. i said:

but also, think. White doesn't mean just American or British.

by the way, this is what TS said that really could rile people into attacking foreigners (physically or verbally), which i don't think is right:

When online check.... they were Jewish. Now then i know, Jewish life is more important than Singapoean life. Cheap life we are....

if TS wants to bring race and religion issues into this thread, inciting tension, by all means.. i'm cautioning him that's all

only shallow people will look on the surface and declare "hey where are my rights to photograph" but not the implications of their actions.

are you one of them? or are you someone who's more broad-minded and able to think about others and not selfishly care only about your own needs and wants.

 

[kei1309]

YA LOH. Tsk Tsk Tsk...TS how can you NOT read up if you go photo shooting there? Before you do a shoot, make sure you must:
- Do a demographic search on how many % of what type of race stays there. If can't find on internet, please do your own survey.
- Then read up on the top 30 majority groups who stay there - are they : White or Blue Collar workers? Which particular Industry? Are they Chinese, Indian, Malay, Jews, Anglo Saxon, Philippinos, Mongolians, Singaporean Chinese, Singapore Indians?
- For each group, make sure you READ UP what they are sensitive to. Make sure you don't miss out anything, in case any particular group is sensitive to Orange color and you happened to wear Orange! Otherwise they may have a RIGHT to panic when they see Orange.
- Make sure you know what these people are sensitive to before you step NEAR any roads they reside near to.

That's what people overseas do!! They are very sensitive!
Before they go shooting, they check who are in that vicinity. If they are Singaporeans, they will NEVER chew a chew gum within a 20km radius. Just in case the Singaporeans panic!

if that's the case, can i assume that...you would do that? how interesting. all that sarcasm for a guy telling TS to be more sensitive to other races and religion.

bravo. absolutely bravo.

shows what kind of low-life you are

 

[deadlytoad]

Kei1309 are u a jew or u are staying in that area? Sry mean no harm as it seen to me u alway side them. What i said is what it happened. If u want, we can meet & i will bring u down there to meet the guard to prove my story is turth as it fall on 06/04/2011. So the 2 chinese guard should remember me. How?

 

[deadlytoad]

i go past Oxley Rise and Oxley Road on an almost daily basis. the only old buildings along the road are the houses and shop houses on one side, and newer buildings like offices on the other.
anyways, TS mentioned "shooting" into the Jewish Communal hall. this isn't about right to shoot.. if people have been asked to leave before, then there is an issue with them. Jews are private people, treasure their privacy and are quite an exclusive community.

this is more on respect of religion and race. what other religions and races practice, might not be what another practices. Mosques, Churches and Temples might allow photography within and without the premises, but other religions might frown upon it.

just because you believe that papayas, mangoes and apples taste nice, doesn't mean that oranges will taste nice to you as well

by the way, i didn't say white people are at fault neither did i say white people are like that.. i said:



by the way, this is what TS said that really could rile people into attacking foreigners (physically or verbally), which i don't think is right:



if TS wants to bring race and religion issues into this thread, inciting tension, by all means.. i'm cautioning him that's all

only shallow people will look on the surface and declare "hey where are my rights to photograph" but not the implications of their actions.

are you one of them? or are you someone who's more broad-minded and able to think about others and not selfishly care only about your own needs and wants.

I was not shooting INTO the Jewish Communal hall, just outside shoot the word on the main door (Since u go past almost daily basic. take a 1 min look. u cant see inside as the door n window are lock)

Sry if i bring in religion or race into this issues. but if u were me that day, the guard told u they think u might be a TERRORIST, How u feel?

Only after that, i went online to search & found there is other been chase off by them.

 

[kei1309]

Kei1309 are u a jew or u are staying in that area? Sry mean no harm as it seen to me u alway side them. What i said is what it happened. If u want, we can meet & i will bring u down there to meet the guard to prove my story is turth as it fall on 06/04/2011. So the 2 chinese guard should remember me. How?

i'm not doubting you bro. i'm cautioning you before you end up making a remark that you shouldn't. singapore is a multi-racial society and remarks about race an religion are taboo here, and in this forum. especially if one is making light of racial and religion issues like what Pacificslite is with his sarcasm and tone. i did not ask you to read up on anything every time you shoot, but rather to be more sensitive especially towards race and religion.

your words back there can stir up anti-semitic sentiments. be careful with your words. read up on the holocaust and understand what weight your words carry.

those that mock this advice, and the one i told you in the first page... you can be sure that they are irresponsible and ignorant people who make light of serious issues and are not people who are sensitive. this is Ethics. those that fling casual comments at serious issues... they are not people you can trust to back you up.

by the way. i'm not a Jew.

how the heck can a guy called Keitaro be a Jew? :bsmilie: it's not even a Jewish name.

 

[kei1309]

I was not shooting INTO the Jewish Communal hall, just outside shoot the word on the main door (Since u go past almost daily basic. take a 1 min look. u cant see inside as the door n window are lock)

Sry if i bring in religion or race into this issues. but if u were me that day, the guard told u they think u might be a TERRORIST, How u feel?

Only after that, i went online to search & found there is other been chase off by them.

they have a right to suspect. the Americans were morons to actually put a certain type of dressing, face-type and behavior and then stereotype terrorists. terrorists can come in any skin tone or race or anything. hence the caution. They can say what they want, but best advice is not to provoke them by countering them with sarcasm.

i had a friend. who has a beard, long curly hair and fits the stereotypical terrorist look and behavior. he complained about being stopped by security many times because of his look till one day, he blasted the security, walked past him and said "YES. i'm a terrorist heading to bomb a target".

i told him off. i warned him that the security personnel can actually detain him for saying that. but still he continues to shoot his mouth off. what to do? don't be foolish and say things in a fit of anger or sarcasm. you might regret it in the future.

 

[deadlytoad]

i'm not doubting you bro. i'm cautioning you before you end up making a remark that you shouldn't. singapore is a multi-racial society and remarks about race an religion are taboo here, and in this forum. especially if one is making light of racial and religion issues like what Pacificslite is with his sarcasm and tone. i did not ask you to read up on anything every time you shoot, but rather to be more sensitive especially towards race and religion.

your words back there can stir up anti-semitic sentiments. be careful with your words. read up on the holocaust and understand what weight your words carry.

those that mock this advice, and the one i told you in the first page... you can be sure that they are irresponsible and ignorant people who make light of serious issues and are not people who are sensitive. this is Ethics. those that fling casual comments at serious issues... they are not people you can trust to back you up.

by the way. i'm not a Jew.

how the heck can a guy called Keitaro be a Jew? :bsmilie: it's not even a Jewish name.

sry bro for a Jew.:sweat: but was very angry that day ;( becos she was shouting at me to stop taking photo n call the guard for back up & end up just walk away. Leaving the guard to talk to me.

 

[Sion]

how the heck can a guy called Keitaro be a Jew? :bsmilie: it's not even a Jewish name.

What about Keitaro Soros? :bsmilie:

 

[Sion]

i go past Oxley Rise and Oxley Road on an almost daily basis.

Be careful.

Now that everybody knows it your fanboys will be there waiting to ambush you. :bsmilie:

 

[Virgo]

sry bro for a Jew.:sweat: but was very angry that day ;( becos she was shouting at me to stop taking photo n call the guard for back up & end up just walk away. Leaving the guard to talk to me.

Bro, you have every right to be angry. You can stop shooting if the guard respected you and tell you nicely to observe their privacy and if you can stop shooting in front of their building. If there isn't any mutual respect, why should you be giving them 'face'? In actual fact, he didn't have the right to stop you from shooting anyway. Sometimes, it's a 2-way thing. You tell me nicely, I will oblige. If you yell and shout like an animal, people will not follow what you say since they have every right to shoot in a public property!

 

[A Media Luz]

@TS before thinking that you're wronged, or that we're being marginalized....

you're shooting next to places where the Jewish Community gather.

please do a little read up on the middle-east and you'll have a better understanding. current world affairs and issues dude.

they have a right to panic. i do travel down that road quite often, and have never seen people taking photos around that area.

but do remember that you also have a right to shoot. just be responsible and sensitive to the area you're shooting in, even if singapore is a "free" country.

put yourself in the shoes of these people and try to understand why they might be jittery instead of condemning them.

Sounds like cannot bring camera when travelling in the Middle East at all?

 

[hmjt]

Kei1309 are u a jew or u are staying in that area? Sry mean no harm as it seen to me u alway side them. What i said is what it happened. If u want, we can meet & i will bring u down there to meet the guard to prove my story is turth as it fall on 06/04/2011. So the 2 chinese guard should remember me. How?

You know what, if you feel that you are not in the wrong, why did you leave? Did you leave because you are intimidated and decided not to stand up for your own rights? And you are angry because of that? Tell you what if you won't stand up for yourself no one would. Hope you don't take this the wrong way but this is how i see it. No point complaining online when you decided to leave the place yourself.

 

[deadlytoad]

To hmjt, sry, don't understand a single words from u. U are nut or what? Have u read the whole thing yet?, having I said the guard talk to me nicely? Becos of that, I don't want them get into trouble or worse, lost their jobs. As they are Singaporean. Pls read all first before u type. My two cent.

 

[deadlytoad]

People down there are trying to calming down problem here n you at another side try to set up fire. What on ur mind?

 

[hmjt]

To hmjt, sry, don't understand a single words from u. U are nut or what? Have u read the whole thing yet?, having I said the guard talk to me nicely? Becos of that, I don't want them get into trouble or worse, lost their jobs. As they are Singaporean. Pls read all first before u type. My two cent.

So you left becos u are considerate, that is good, so what is the problem? U yourself choose to stop taking photos right so what are u angry about? If you want to want to resolve the issue shouldn't you resolve it with the lady?!

 

[hmjt]

People down there are trying to calming down problem here n you at another side try to set up fire. What on ur mind?

Calm what problem? You said you choose to stop taking the photos so what is the problem? Na I can't figure out what is the issue in the first place. I don't think the people involve tried to manhandle you or threaten you in any way?!

 

[sbs99]

Personally, i have walked past Mr.MM's home, the gurkha guards will nicely hand signal you to walk on the path opposite to the house and not along it. I did retrace my steps back to walk past again, no issues. But if you wanna stick a camera in the house's direction, basically you are inviting people to question your motives.

TS's issue is about taking photos in other parts of Oxley Rise. Maybe the neighbours have certain issues about people taking photos in the area. As Singaporeans, most will know what's "Oxley Rise" would mean and why the people there are sensitive about people walking past or loitering. They may have other issues which we may not know about, but we are too, in no position to 'test water' and see what happens or make public what should be the measures and so on, which i believe isn't appropriate to have a major debate here.

And there's no issue about a person's race, in relation to Oxley Rise area. If TS's a foreigner, maybe he doesn't know of such, perhaps he would like clarify in proper forums or sites or even on his personal blog if he has one. This might perhaps be a good experience to learn something. And Clubsnap's kopitiam is not the suitable platform to discuss such, no answers but plenty of opinions. Perhaps those keen, would like to private msg TS to further discuss his topic.

I'm closing this thread for now. So no politics talk, let's keep the kopitiam friendly. Cheers!