Newbie needing advice, please

[Cokiee]

for 1-1.5 he can get a decent body and a decent normal zoom lens. It may not be top of the line but it will rather good Starting setup.

Following are merely my two cents and not meant to offend anyone.


I too started with a proconsumer camera - Canon G3 which cost more then 1k then. But price of mirrorless camera has comedown so much that I could buy a mirrorless camera with a body and two lens for less then what I spend on a compact camera. In December 2014 I bought the OMD EM10 new for 780. It comes with the body, 14-42 kit lens 45mm 1.8 prime 50 dollar ntuc voucher. So my effective cost of the camera body and kit lens is less then 550 as I sold the prime lens. Great pc fair deals at funan.

This at a time where people are selling the second hand em10 body alone for 600 in bns.

Personally, I would not spend money on an advance compact (e.g. Sony rx100 M4)which could cost up to 900 sgd new unless I want it for size and for a special function .

Em10 wasn't that big to begin with. It is rather petite imho.

Camera is a very personal item buy something u like. Photography can be an expensive hobby so buy wisely.work with what you have and work around the limitations.

The relatively smaller cost differential between a compact and an ICL system vis-a-vis the option to expand with the latter is actually one of my key considerations actually.

Agree also on the limitations part - end of the day I suppose it can become a bit of an addiction. I'm sure for some it already has, in fact, always chasing the next better piece of equipment.

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[one eye jack]

So now there's sorta the option among: Fuji XT10, 2nd hand EM-5 MK1 or (as I discovered visiting Best Denki yesterday that it's out on our shores) EM-10 MK2.

In taking into consideration the reviews I've read and the pieces of advice from seniors here, the XT10 has much to love, with good kit lens and pleasing SOOC images, which is what I *think* I like. However this busts my budget, and I'm not sure its worth the difference in price when compared to the other two.

Reading about the EM10 II it does seem like its promising, with a (stepped down?) 5 axis in body stabilisation, improved EVF (though still lower than the EM5 MII, but not like I can tell since I have no comparison), AF targeting pad and electronic shutter. Most importantly it fits my budget, even with both kit lenses.

Your views please? Sorry if I'm extremely long winded here ...

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XT10 is a APSC sensor and therefore bigger than M4/3.Size and weight is bigger and heavier too.
Not sure you are aware of the sensor difference.What's going for it is it's sensor and image quality
being higher resolution and having fuji film emulation.You can buy software that emulate fuji and other brand films so not a deal clincher although others rave about its build quality etc.No weather sealing for this model unlike XT1.

EM10 mk2 has innovative features like simulated ovf (optical view finder), it lets you see actual
scene colour before pressing shutter button a sort of real world preview.Of course with the improved 5 axis stabilisation vs 3 axis mk1.Read Robin Wong's review although it may be biased as he works for Olympus malaysia.The pictures by kit lens seem to indicate that it is a capable lens.Best to read review for other features in em10 mk2.Looks like a winner in all aspects for a M4/3 camera.

Stepped down you say? Well, Robin comments that handling is very similar to EM5 mk2.The obvious step down is no weather sealing and a slight "crippling" of the 5 axis stabilisation in EM10 Mk2 of 4 ev stops vs 5 EV for EM1 and EM5 Mk2.There have to be some differentiation between models.

 

[Cokiee]

XT10 is a APSC sensor and therefore bigger than M4/3.Size and weight is bigger and heavier too.
Not sure you are aware of the sensor difference.What's going for it is it's sensor and image quality
being higher resolution and having fuji film emulation.You can buy software that emulate fuji and other brand films so not a deal clincher although others rave about its build quality etc.No weather sealing for this model unlike XT1.

EM10 mk2 has innovative features like simulated ovf (optical view finder), it lets you see actual
scene colour before pressing shutter button a sort of real world preview.Of course with the improved 5 axis stabilisation vs 3 axis mk1.Read Robin Wong's review although it may be biased as he works for Olympus malaysia.The pictures by kit lens seem to indicate that it is a capable lens.Best to read review for other features in em10 mk2.Looks like a winner in all aspects for a M4/3 camera.

Stepped down you say? Well, Robin comments that handling is very similar to EM5 mk2.The obvious step down is no weather sealing and a slight "crippling" of the 5 axis stabilisation in EM10 Mk2 of 4 ev stops vs 5 EV for EM1 and EM5 Mk2.There have to be some differentiation between models.

That's quite an early timing to be posting!

I have a brief appreciation of the difference in sensor sizes, though I'm sure the technical details elude me. Peeking at it in the stores I have also found like you have mentioned, that it is bigger - thicker really - in build.

I'll go read the review that Robin Wong has posted - this is on the blogspot post, right?

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[one eye jack]

That's quite an early timing to be posting!

I have a brief appreciation of the difference in sensor sizes, though I'm sure the technical details elude me. Peeking at it in the stores I have also found like you have mentioned, that it is bigger - thicker really - in build.

I'll go read the review that Robin Wong has posted - this is on the blogspot post, right?

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Blogspot...yes.


I don't want to post a link because I will be labeled a fan boy.
To put matters in perspective,EM10 Mk2 is not perfect nothing ever is.One review said
view finder is "lackluster" now what is that? Battery life is only 300 shots that's true
but that's users do not understand electronic technology.Let me illustrate with a few
examples and people will understand real engineering. During US and Russia cold war ,russia is
lagging behind in materials technology.In order to intercept high flying US aircraft the
russians used critical and expensive materials only at important parts of the aircraft.It
gets the job done by getting to the altitude and engaging enemy but engine life is short.
Another example is US mars explorer vehicle.The engineer said it does not have to be
perfect just good enough.Engineering is all about compromises to get the job done,mission
accomplished period.

Robin Wong gives honest description of product warts and all.Pros and cons so to not
over hype. He posts real life pictures which is more realistic and easily appreciated
than the same old controlled test scenes of some reviewers.Effective marketing I say.
You want long battery life..would you want to be tethered to a heavy battery and restrict
your mobility and portability? Cars have petrol stations along the roads..haha so
what's new? Video people complain there's no external microphone jack and say it's
only $1..can't they put it in? The truth is there is no space for it when the body is so
small."Ai chee ai pee" human nature.. never ending story.

When you are a small company trying to compete and survive the catch phrase is "creativity,
innovation and now "disrupter".KOdak film was a disrupter when it killed off professional
photographers by putting mobility and price in hands of consumers, back then only the rich
can afford to hire photographers.Kodak's marketing slogan was "YOu press the button,
we do the rest".

Fuji has since diversified their business to include cosmetics and medical.Imaging is not their
core business.How much resourcesc and talent can they concentrate there? Still I respect Fuji's
accomplishments. Their Fujinon lens coatings is good.

 

[Cokiee]

I finally read the whole blogpost. It's quite a human-friendly review I feel, but like he has also said is slightly biased, which cannot be avoided.

Looks like he's got some love for the system.

And I agree with you and what has been posted on the blog :- these things are mechanical after all, and there is a limitation to it.

Haven't heard the term disruptive technology in a while - are you a marketer? Heh.

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[one eye jack]

I finally read the whole blogpost. It's quite a human-friendly review I feel, but like he has also said is slightly biased, which cannot be avoided.

Looks like he's got some love for the system.

And I agree with you and what has been posted on the blog :- these things are mechanical after all, and there is a limitation to it.

Haven't heard the term disruptive technology in a while - are you a marketer? Heh.

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Heard the term used in business programs on tv ansd recently on "In the storm" where it featured
the failure of Kodak Film..they invented the first digital camera way back in the 1970s and subsequently developed it secretly by one of it's vice-presidents without the knowledge of Kodak's founder in one of their Japan RnD labs in Yokohama. By coincidence another vice president stumble upon this secret project and reported it to the boss.During questioning this man could not predict the number of units that can be sold.Eventually he left Kodak and worked for Apple which then bought over the rights and introduced the first digital camera named Appletake100.The manufacturing was done by Kodak.It chose to ignore the potential of digital still believing that since it got 80% of market share that film will continue to be business as usual.By the time kodak's sales began to shrink it was too late.It now is split into two small companies serving industrial imaging.

 

[daredevil123]

Totally respect that - thank you for your insights!

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No problem. remember to budget in other necessary things for your new purchase, like a camera bag, a dry cabinate, filters, blowers etc etc... especially a dry cab, in hot and humid weather like singapore, your camera can get mouldy in a matter of weeks without controlling the humidity when storing.

 

[Cokiee]

Thanks for the reminder! I do intend to pick up a dry cab from the get go, together with the requisite for cleaning.

Just wondering, do people use dry boxes + silica gel anymore? I sorta remember my dad and brother frying / roasting the blue gel bits to make them pink asgain heh.

 

[daredevil123]

Thanks for the reminder! I do intend to pick up a dry cab from the get go, together with the requisite for cleaning.

Just wondering, do people use dry boxes + silica gel anymore? I sorta remember my dad and brother frying / roasting the blue gel bits to make them pink asgain heh.

Some people do. But you really have to be very religious about it. Once you forget to check, replace or recharge the silica gel, it will cost you dearly. Dry cab we just leave it plugged in and the humidity is controlled well and remains very stable.

 

[donut88]

Heard the term used in business programs on tv ansd recently on "In the storm" where it featured
the failure of Kodak Film..they invented the first digital camera way back in the 1970s and subsequently developed it secretly by one of it's vice-presidents without the knowledge of Kodak's founder in one of their Japan RnD labs in Yokohama. By coincidence another vice president stumble upon this secret project and reported it to the boss.During questioning this man could not predict the number of units that can be sold.Eventually he left Kodak and worked for Apple which then bought over the rights and introduced the first digital camera named Appletake100.The manufacturing was done by Kodak.It chose to ignore the potential of digital still believing that since it got 80% of market share that film will continue to be business as usual.By the time kodak's sales began to shrink it was too late.It now is split into two small companies serving industrial imaging.

Thanks for the insight of Kodak failure.

I rem one quote from Steve Jobs

"We hire smart people, not to tell them what to do. They should be telling us what to do."

Obviously many once-successful companies never get this meaning, and hence their failure in the end

 

[one eye jack]

Thanks for the insight of Kodak failure.

I rem one quote from Steve Jobs

"We hire smart people, not to tell them what to do. They should be telling us what to do."

Obviously many once-successful companies never get this meaning, and hence their failure in the end

According to this same vice president Kodak spent nearly US$25 billion over 30 years and had not one single hit product.Our government is now spending 1% of our gdp on reasearch just like developed
countries but this is out of topic already.Please do not comment!

 

[ziggy]

Just wondering, do people use dry boxes + silica gel anymore? I sorta remember my dad and brother frying / roasting the blue gel bits to make them pink asgain heh.

I think so but it is very troublesome though cheap way. I kept my Nikkor 50mm this way fungus free for 30 years, sealed in a ziploc bag with a silica gel pack. Frying the silica gel every 2-3 weeks is no fun. I think it was more the nightly aircon in the room than the silica gel.

 

[sammy888]

I think so but it is very troublesome though cheap way. I kept my Nikkor 50mm this way fungus free for 30 years, sealed in a ziploc bag with a silica gel pack. Frying the silica gel every 2-3 weeks is no fun. I think it was more the nightly aircon in the room than the silica gel.

My bread toaster does the job for me heh. I hve like 4 jam jar load of silicon which I rotate their use in my dry boxes.

 

[e69087]

In the past, i tried frying the silica gel. But before it cool down & put into the container for use, they started to turn pink.
Now i just use the dry cabinet.

 

[donut88]

According to this same vice president Kodak spent nearly US$25 billion over 30 years and had not one single hit product.Our government is now spending 1% of our gdp on reasearch just like developed
countries but this is out of topic already.Please do not comment!

Companies v often forget that money doesn't solve everything.

Their stupid investment of US$25 billion over 30 years reminds me of what NASA did to solve the writing issue in space.

NASA spent US$ millions or billions into inventing a pen for astronauts to use in space.

What did the Russians use? A simple pencil. No need to spend money. Just use a bloody 10 cents pencil and it works perfectly in space

U see, too many act smart ppl in an organisation, trying to justify their existence in their jobs.

 

[Nikonzen]

Yeah and stupid space pen is a piece of crap too!:bsmilie:

 

[jjlimjohn]

Companies v often forget that money doesn't solve everything. Their stupid investment of US$25 billion over 30 years reminds me of what NASA did to solve the writing issue in space. NASA spent US$ millions or billions into inventing a pen for astronauts to use in space. What did the Russians use? A simple pencil. No need to spend money. Just use a bloody 10 cents pencil and it works perfectly in space U see, too many act smart ppl in an organisation, trying to justify their existence in their jobs.

Wood and lead shavings in a zero-gravity, oxygen-rich environment can be incredibly dangerous, liable to interfere with instruments or catch on fire. Pls get the facts right.

 

[donut88]

Wood and lead shavings in a zero-gravity, oxygen-rich environment can be incredibly dangerous, liable to interfere with instruments or catch on fire. Pls get the facts right.

Tell that to the Russians lah

 

[Nikonzen]

Before John Glenn orbited the Earth he dropped by the local drugstore and bought a small fixed lens rangefinder...they modified it and he used it and a Leica on that mission...

 

[Cokiee]

In the past, i tried frying the silica gel. But before it cool down & put into the container for use, they started to turn pink.
Now i just use the dry cabinet.

That's incredibly fast! How long does one batch last typically anyway?

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