Need help with my 1st DSLR


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Sep 16, 2008
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#1
Hi everyone,

I'm planning on getting a DSLR this X'Mas.. And I'm choosing between EOS 450D and Nikon D90. I've been playing with Photography for a year now with my Canon S5IS.. Have been able to take pretty decent shots with my camera, but I feel it's time for a DSLR.

I mainly take pictures of my fishes.. And this occurs mainly in low light conditions, so I need a DSLR with CMOS sensor thus I have narrowed down to these two. It's either I get the EOS 450D Kit with an extra 3rd Party Lense or D90 Body with maybe a 3rd Party Lense.

However, what I would like to enquire is, for 3rd party lenses, how much cheaper are they with comparison to originals for both brands and which Brand offers a wider variety with better quality lenses ?

For now I am more keen on 450D due to budget restraints, but I am trying to find a reason for me to pay the extra money to get the D90 too :)

Hope to get some response from fellow Forumers !

Regards,
Ben
 

felixcat8888

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May 8, 2005
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#2
Sigma, Tamron and tokina all have reasonably priced lenses. Depends on what you really need

Low light can go for the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8, Tamron 17-50mm F2.8 and I believe a Tokina 16-50mm F2.8
 

Sep 16, 2008
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#3
Sigma, Tamron and tokina all have reasonably priced lenses. Depends on what you really need

Low light can go for the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8, Tamron 17-50mm F2.8 and I believe a Tokina 16-50mm F2.8
Ok thanks for these recommendations ! Sorry for asking this, but what's the difference between a 18-50mm and say a 18-100mm lense ? If I were to take pictures from a closer perspective (say within 0.5m) from the object, would the former allow me to capture sharper images than the latter ?

Also, does the F-number of the lense(s) make any difference ?

Thanks a million for the help !
 

felixcat8888

Senior Member
May 8, 2005
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#4
Ok thanks for these recommendations ! Sorry for asking this, but what's the difference between a 18-50mm and say a 18-100mm lense ? If I were to take pictures from a closer perspective (say within 0.5m) from the object, would the former allow me to capture sharper images than the latter ?

Also, does the F-number of the lense(s) make any difference ?

Thanks a million for the help !
The ones I quoted in the earlier post allow for maximum light to enter the lens as they are constant apertures.

!8-50mm and 18-100mm are 2 different ranges of lenses. One is wide short zoom the other is wide to telezoom. You can take a photo a further distance from where you are standing.

What do you want to take? For people normally use primes or in a group use a wide angle lens.
 

#5
However, what I would like to enquire is, for 3rd party lenses, how much cheaper are they with comparison to originals for both brands and which Brand offers a wider variety with better quality lenses ?
For example, Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 cost around $600 while the Canon 17-55mm f2.8 IS cost $1.2k. Canon's image and build quality may be (im not sure) better and you get IS.

Anyway, here's a few set-ups.

- 450D ($980) + Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 ($650) = $1630
- 450D + Canon 17-55mm f2.8 IS ($1200) = $2180
- 450D + Canon 18-200mm f3.5-5.6 IS (1k) = $1980
- 450D + 18-55mm f3.5-f5.6IS(kit 1) = $1.15k

The last option is totally not recommended unless 1.15k is the most you can spend because now, when I want to replace it with a faster lens, I have to get rid of it which I have no idea how.
 

elijah81

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Sep 4, 2006
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#6
Ok thanks for these recommendations ! Sorry for asking this, but what's the difference between a 18-50mm and say a 18-100mm lense ? If I were to take pictures from a closer perspective (say within 0.5m) from the object, would the former allow me to capture sharper images than the latter ?

Also, does the F-number of the lense(s) make any difference ?

Thanks a million for the help !
The F number (f-stop) represents the size of the aperture. The smaller the number the bigger the aperture will open when you release the shutter. Also, the smaller the number the smaller the depth of field.

Because of the bigger aperture opening, the lens will tend to be bigger in width then compared to say a similar zoom range with f-stop of 4.
Also the lens will tend to be pricier.
 

Sep 16, 2008
49
0
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#7
The ones I quoted in the earlier post allow for maximum light to enter the lens as they are constant apertures.

!8-50mm and 18-100mm are 2 different ranges of lenses. One is wide short zoom the other is wide to telezoom. You can take a photo a further distance from where you are standing.

What do you want to take? For people normally use primes or in a group use a wide angle lens.
Mainly is for Aquatic Photography (Taking pictures of fishes in tanks or ponds). Distance from object to the camera is definitely within 1 metre, and normally in low light conditions (Aquarium FL Lights not strong enough).

I'm more inclined towards E450D now because I'm more familiar with Canon cameras and I think it suits my budget and usage. :)
 

Sep 16, 2008
49
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#8
For example, Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 cost around $600 while the Canon 17-55mm f2.8 IS cost $1.2k. Canon's image and build quality may be (im not sure) better and you get IS.

Anyway, here's a few set-ups.

- 450D ($980) + Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 ($650) = $1630
- 450D + Canon 17-55mm f2.8 IS ($1200) = $2180
- 450D + Canon 18-200mm f3.5-5.6 IS (1k) = $1980
- 450D + 18-55mm f3.5-f5.6IS(kit 1) = $1.15k

The last option is totally not recommended unless 1.15k is the most you can spend because now, when I want to replace it with a faster lens, I have to get rid of it which I have no idea how.
The F number (f-stop) represents the size of the aperture. The smaller the number the bigger the aperture will open when you release the shutter. Also, the smaller the number the smaller the depth of field.

Because of the bigger aperture opening, the lens will tend to be bigger in width then compared to say a similar zoom range with f-stop of 4.
Also the lens will tend to be pricier.
Thanks for the inputs ! I think I roughly get what you guys are explaining.. I'm thinknig of E450D Body + any other lense which I will decide on as I already know what my usage is for. However, do you guys think I should get the Kit with Kit Lense so that I can also use my camera for normal picture taking ?
 

lastboltnut

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Mar 23, 2006
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#10
Hi,

You mentioned you mostly shoot fish. Not that I do that, but I think if you need flash, you have to fire off-shoe and D90 has wireless flash commander built in where you can command the external flash to fire on the side of the tank to avoid reflection on the tank...just a thought as I don't usually shoot fish... people who shoot fish may want to commend on this for TS's consideration.:)
 

Sep 16, 2008
49
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#11
Yes, Kit lens is also good lens
Ok. :) For my extra lense.. Can I know what's the difference between a lense fixed at f/2.8 and another with range of f/2.8-4.5?

And what does the term 'DC Macro' stand for and how does it affect the lense ?

Sorry to ask so many questions. :embrass:
 

Sep 16, 2008
49
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8
#12
Hi,

You mentioned you mostly shoot fish. Not that I do that, but I think if you need flash, you have to fire off-shoe and D90 has wireless flash commander built in where you can command the external flash to fire on the side of the tank to avoid reflection on the tank...just a thought as I don't usually shoot fish... people who shoot fish may want to commend on this for TS's consideration.:)
Hi bro,

Using my S5IS with 2 sets of FL Aquarium Lights, I can capture decent images at f/2.8 - 3.5, ISO 200 - 400, Shutter Speed at around 1/100 - 1/200. Haven't really gone to the extreme levels of having to setup wireless flash, etc, but I am planning on that.

For me now, my plan would be just FL / T5HO lights overhead and 2 Light stands with FL Lights shininga t the tank for my shoot, without flash.
 

lastboltnut

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Mar 23, 2006
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#13
For f2.8 lens, it means at any focal length, the maxi aperture is always at f2.8. For 2.8-4.5 lens, it means at the widest end, the max aperture is f2.8 while at the tele end, its max aperture is f4.5.

For Sigma's terminology, DC=Digital lens, only for DSLR with crop factor cannot be used with SLR or Full Frame DSLR.

Macro means its able to shoot at a larger reproduction ratio.

Ok. :) For my extra lense.. Can I know what's the difference between a lense fixed at f/2.8 and another with range of f/2.8-4.5?

And what does the term 'DC Macro' stand for and how does it affect the lense ?

Sorry to ask so many questions. :embrass:
 

lastboltnut

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Mar 23, 2006
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#14
Yah, the urge for off shoe flash will come soon, so if you can, why not a D90?

I am sure a year ago when you bought S5IS, you did not think of DSLR too......its a BBB virus.:) If you can, buy right for the 1st time, save some $. Buying twice means loosing $ when selling the 1st buy...but all said, it must be affordable....;)


Hi bro,

Using my S5IS with 2 sets of FL Aquarium Lights, I can capture decent images at f/2.8 - 3.5, ISO 200 - 400, Shutter Speed at around 1/100 - 1/200. Haven't really gone to the extreme levels of having to setup wireless flash, etc, but I am planning on that.

For me now, my plan would be just FL / T5HO lights overhead and 2 Light stands with FL Lights shininga t the tank for my shoot, without flash.
 

Sep 16, 2008
49
0
8
#15
Yah, the urge for off shoe flash will come soon, so if you can, why not a D90?

I am sure a year ago when you bought S5IS, you did not think of DSLR too......its a BBB virus.:) If you can, buy right for the 1st time, save some $. Buying twice means loosing $ when selling the 1st buy...but all said, it must be affordable....;)
Yeah true man.. Will do a serious consideration. Off shoe flash will only be my luxury at home.. When going out to photograph cannot possible set up all these Haha. Other than that, is there any other significant difference between the 2 models ? I heard there was a difference in camera speed.

Anyway, here's a random picture taken with my S5IS..



I was wondering that if for the same conditions taken with this photo (just 2X FL Lights above my aquarium tank) and without Flash, what difference would the CMOS sensor in the DSLR make ?

Thanks again !!
 

Last edited:

lastboltnut

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2006
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#18
I think any DSLR should have better noise control over the S5IS's photo as the sensor size of an DSLR is much larger than the S5IS's.

With external off shoe flash (in Nikon's term Creative Lighting System or CLS), you can place the flash at desired angle to give you different photo effect rather than the usual top lit lighting. Like ArcticFox mentioned, you can fill up the shadow areas of the fish. With multiple flash, it will be even more interesting.:D

I was wondering that if for the same conditions taken with this photo (just 2X FL Lights above my aquarium tank) and without Flash, what difference would the CMOS sensor in the DSLR make ?

Thanks again !!
 

Sep 16, 2008
49
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#19
Ok yes for the inputs !

Yes the FL Lights are fish tank aquarium lights. :) But if say I have a budget restraint and can only get the E450D, could I still do something similar with a D90 ?

The main problem about fish phototaking (that I personally feel when using my S5IS), is that under low light conditions, the shutter speed and aperture is greatly limited so I am really unable to capture really sharp shots. Mainly is the shutter speed is capped at a best of 1/200 with f2.7 or f3.5 and I cannot go anywhere better than that. Secondly, as lastboltnut has mentioned, the sensor isn't as good as when using a DSLR.

There's a famous fish photographer (ashdavid), and here's an example of his shot. Wonder if with some practice and proper knowledge I could do something like this with a E450D?

 

lastboltnut

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2006
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#20
Why not? From your shot, I can see your tank is quite well lit, so with 450D, no problem.:)

There's a famous fish photographer (ashdavid), and here's an example of his shot. Wonder if with some practice and proper knowledge I could do something like this with a E450D?
 

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