need faster AF than a K20D..

[orlyandico]

i'm not blown away by the performance in canikon land..

and more importantly, i'm not blown away by the pricing either. :bsmilie:

The funny thing is, the non-L ring drive lenses cost less than Pentax equivalents.

I'm amazed that my humble 16-45 zoom now cost over $400 USD new. I don't know what it is with Pentax, the lenses keep getting more and more expensive.

DDElectronics currently lists the 100mm Macro USM (non-L) for $739. How much is a used D-FA 100mm on B&S? ;p

We don't have a decent 85mm either.. (the 85/1.4 FA* is hideously, and I mean hideously expensive, and discontinued) while you can get the 85/1.8 Ultrasonic for $400 on B&S.

I must admit, part of the lure of Canon-land is the much wider availability of just about everything. I'm not really sold on the Limiteds (they cost way too much, although admittedly are mechanically gorgeous).

 

[pinholecam]

K5 does have far better AF than a K7 and a K7 is supposed to have better AF than K20

Don't forget that you will also trade away SR for that 60D. I suppose that is impt for macros and 100mm lenses?

The 7D is the supposed 'APS-C sports camera body' back in its time (1yr back). But macro hardly can count reliably on AF and it certainly does not need lightning fast AF. You may actually be wanting more decisive AF which the K5 does offer.

Such thin DOF and human shake for macros really screws up AF since that point of focus is shifting about.

A K5 is worth its price point over the 60D. SR is already worth at least around $200 imo.

 

[orlyandico]

1) Focusing Rail: it's pretty hard to get accurate focus when moving the whole camera back and forth. I've always thought a focusing rail would be handy (and it's cheap compared to jumping ship)

2) SR of the type Pentax has (and present in all Canon IS lenses prior to the 100/2.8 Macro L IS) doesn't really help at macro distances... besides I always use flash

3) Ok, the K5 has really far better AF than K20D.. but what if I don't wanna spend $1700? would a K-r give me enough improvement?

K5 does have far better AF than a K7 and a K7 is supposed to have better AF than K20

Don't forget that you will also trade away SR for that 60D. I suppose that is impt for macros and 100mm lenses?

The 7D is the supposed 'APS-C sports camera body' back in its time (1yr back). But macro hardly can count reliably on AF and it certainly does not need lightning fast AF. You may actually be wanting more decisive AF which the K5 does offer.

Such thin DOF and human shake for macros really screws up AF since that point of focus is shifting about.

A K5 is worth its price point over the 60D. SR is already worth at least around $200 imo.

 

[detritus]

butterflies come in many sizes leh...

the lesser? or is it common? grass blue, and the branded imperial, for example, are very small butterflies. the first i have mentioned is the really small butterfly that flits around, looks greyish. very cute close up!

and butterflies are better shot with MF... if you keep AF and miss, you can say bye bye, they are very, very jumpy subjects.

i'll take your word for it ;p my preferred subjects are bugs, flies and spiders.

i only have 1 decent shot of a butterfly and i still don't know if its a butterfly or moth ;p

 

[night86mare]

The funny thing is, the non-L ring drive lenses cost less than Pentax equivalents.

I'm amazed that my humble 16-45 zoom now cost over $400 USD new. I don't know what it is with Pentax, the lenses keep getting more and more expensive.

DDElectronics currently lists the 100mm Macro USM (non-L) for $739. How much is a used D-FA 100mm on B&S? ;p

We don't have a decent 85mm either.. (the 85/1.4 FA* is hideously, and I mean hideously expensive, and discontinued) while you can get the 85/1.8 Ultrasonic for $400 on B&S.

I must admit, part of the lure of Canon-land is the much wider availability of just about everything. I'm not really sold on the Limiteds (they cost way too much, although admittedly are mechanically gorgeous).

lol, i think we have a 85mm f/1.8? i don't really care for all the portrait lenses though.

well, like i always say, if you're not satisfied (as you haven't been with canon previously before switching to pentax), then chances are, you'll never be satisfied.

happy ping-ponging between brands for the rest of your life... i wager it'd get worse when you start earning more. i know i'll stick to pentax until things really change for it. for now, they are getting better for me. prices are going up, yes, but happily enough, i've bought everything i need and merely have to replace them.

 

[night86mare]

i'll take your word for it ;p my preferred subjects are bugs, flies and spiders.

i only have 1 decent shot of a butterfly and i still don't know if its a butterfly or moth ;p

i love butterflies and dragons and damsels. haven't had the chance to shoot much damsels though.

not really sure about the species, but that's definitely a butterfly. other than the skippers, butterflies fold up their wings this way, while moths tend to spread. also, butterflies have clubbed antennae, moths have horned antennae.

 

[pinholecam]

The funny thing is, the non-L ring drive lenses cost less than Pentax equivalents.

I'm amazed that my humble 16-45 zoom now cost over $400 USD new. I don't know what it is with Pentax, the lenses keep getting more and more expensive.

DDElectronics currently lists the 100mm Macro USM (non-L) for $739. How much is a used D-FA 100mm on B&S? ;p

We don't have a decent 85mm either.. (the 85/1.4 FA* is hideously, and I mean hideously expensive, and discontinued) while you can get the 85/1.8 Ultrasonic for $400 on B&S.

I must admit, part of the lure of Canon-land is the much wider availability of just about everything. I'm not really sold on the Limiteds (they cost way too much, although admittedly are mechanically gorgeous).

The FA*85 is ~$1600 to ~$1800 even if 2nd hand. Proven performance, build quality and bokeh and having SR to boot. Just try comparing that to the Canikon equivalents. (those can only dream on about having SR)

You have to use the FA* and FA ltd lenses to really get to know how good they are.

Frankly, right now, I think you are pretty far down the road to the dark side to be persuaded

 

[detritus]

1) Focusing Rail: it's pretty hard to get accurate focus when moving the whole camera back and forth. I've always thought a focusing rail would be handy (and it's cheap compared to jumping ship)

no it doesn't.

mounting the camera on a tripod with focusing rail greatly reduces your mobility and makes it worse when u're dealing with jumpy subjects. by the time you're ready to take the shot and fine tune with the focusing rail, subject jump / fly away already.

my preferred method is to use a monopod and gently rock it forward / backward until i get sharp focus.

 

[pinholecam]

1) Focusing Rail: it's pretty hard to get accurate focus when moving the whole camera back and forth. I've always thought a focusing rail would be handy (and it's cheap compared to jumping ship)

2) SR of the type Pentax has (and present in all Canon IS lenses prior to the 100/2.8 Macro L IS) doesn't really help at macro distances... besides I always use flash

3) Ok, the K5 has really far better AF than K20D.. but what if I don't wanna spend $1700? would a K-r give me enough improvement?

So you only need the 60D+100mm macro as a one trick horse?
Its also about overall versatility unless you really only do macros with AF.

 

[night86mare]

Frankly, right now, I think you are pretty far down the road to the dark side to be persuaded

i think when people start comparing FA*85mm f/1.4 to a 85mm f/1.8.. we can make that conclusion. it's not fair to do that, the closest comparison should be a 85mm f/1.2 L. what's the price of that? should be quite cheap la, L lens only mar. :bsmilie:

next up, comparison of the FA 50mm f/1.4 to canikons 50mm f/1.8. :bsmilie:

 

[orlyandico]

well.. a bit off-tangent already.. but (correct me if I'm wrong) the K10D / K20D were considered very good value-for-money, if not absolutely the best in class.

back then.. i didn't have any canon L lenses due to lack of purchasing power :bheart: and a K10D cost almost 1/2 of an EOS 30D so it was a no-brainer for me. K10D basically cost as much as a 400D but was a class above. did it AF better than a 30D? I think, no. but I didn't have the moolah for ultrasonic lenses anyway so I didn't care..

i could go out and buy a D700 or 5d Mk 2 today if I cared to.. but old habits die hard, i'm still a cheapskate

i realize that this whole brand-switching thing can get emotional. i don't mean to bash Pentax (i am still hoarding my Takumars...) but my question is quite simple. I want to get much-better-than-K20D AF, and not at 1D prices. If i can get that from a newer Pentax body, that'd be great, so I don't have to get rid of my current lenses at a loss.

so anyone with hands-on experience with the 40D/50D/60D and a recent Pentax body, could provide valuable insight.

 

[orlyandico]

So you only need the 60D+100mm macro as a one trick horse?
Its also about overall versatility unless you really only do macros with AF.

I am thinking of a 40D + 100mm Macro as a one-trick horse, actually...

And yes, the 85 FA* isn't comparable with the 85/1.8 -- but my point is, if I wanted an 85mm Pentax lens, there aren't any options. Not everyone needs an L lens.

And also yes, if I jumped ship, I'd have to sell off my FA 50 and settle for the plastic fantastic 50/1.8 -- because 1:1 equivalency between my current Pentax kit and potential Canon would cost too much.

 

[pinholecam]

i think when people start comparing FA*85mm f/1.4 to a 85mm f/1.8.. we can make that conclusion. it's not fair to do that, the closest comparison should be a 85mm f/1.2 L. what's the price of that? should be quite cheap la, L lens only mar. :bsmilie:

next up, comparison of the FA 50mm f/1.4 to canikons 50mm f/1.8. :bsmilie:

Not only that.
I have a friend who at the suggestion of Pentax as his first camera, just dinged me off
"I only want quality camera"

Few months down the road with Nikon and he's found that
a. Every camera brand can take 'quality' photos (esp. that unheard off Pentax brand)

b. The nicey nicey lenses (85/1.4; 50/1.4; 135/2; Fast zooms) all cost a lot (like ~$2K+$600+$2K)

c. Of course there is a "good" BnS market due to more users - but wait - there are as many ppl looking out for good deals out there, so its hard to get hold of the lens you want since they disappear as fast
and there are lots of 'test water' sellers who try selling lenses at high prices to see which is the next desperado who will help relieve them of the lens so as to fuel their need for the next better thing. :bsmilie:


The grass just looks greener on the other side.....

 

[detritus]

no worries... its not really very emotional... for the most part, i think esp regarding your macro problem, pple are just trying to help you get the best out of your equipment by sharing their technique, so u don't have to splurge on a new C body that may not help.

i've toyed with the idea of a 2nd canon body before too... but it was so that i could use the MPE-65. but i figured i could probably save tons of money by just rigging a reverse lens setup instead.

like u, i'm also not in the mood to spend more money than i have to.

 

[orlyandico]

Not only that.
I have a friend who at the suggestion of Pentax as his first camera, just dinged me off
"I only want quality camera"

..
The grass just looks greener on the other side.....

I'm not one of those guys. I have a Pentax P3N!

And have been using K10D and K20D for over three years now. So this "dark side" talk sounds much like those folks over on PentaxForums who heap scorn on everyone who dares question Pentax.

But I guess nobody will disagree when I say that the K20D AF performance leaves (much) to be desired. So what do I do?


detritus: you're right that MPE-65 is really drool-worthy, and it's MF so even an ancient EOS 10D or 300D would do! but the working distance is tiny.

A problem with a reversed lens (I do have the reversing adapter as well..) is that you can't stop down!!!

(some German company makes an adapter for... GASP! Canon! that allows the EOS body to stop down the lens even if it's reversed, since Canon uses electronic aperture stopdown)

That guy with the K200D and those great macro photos... he uses a reversed lens. But the DOF is so shallow because you can't stop down a reversed lens easily, so he takes a lot of photos and stacks them, changing the focus point slightly between each shot. Too much work for me, I'm afraid..

 

[liveevil]

I disagree. :bsmilie: The K20D's AF speed is fast enough for me . I sold it only because it's a little too heavy for me.

 

[pinholecam]

I am thinking of a 40D + 100mm Macro as a one-trick horse, actually...

And yes, the 85 FA* isn't comparable with the 85/1.8 -- but my point is, if I wanted an 85mm Pentax lens, there aren't any options. Not everyone needs an L lens.

And also yes, if I jumped ship, I'd have to sell off my FA 50 and settle for the plastic fantastic 50/1.8 -- because 1:1 equivalency between my current Pentax kit and potential Canon would cost too much.

No offense, but if you have decided to spend money on a one trick horse irregardless, I think its more a want than need.

When I referred to the FA*85, its with response to the comment that Canikon equivalents are cheaper.
Admittedly the Pentax lens lineup can be missing or at the least "quirky". A DA70ltd is Pentax's answer to some sort of short tele portrait lens. Its very hard to compare directly on some focal lengths. The DA70ltd for example is very small, light, well built and great performance.
If you based buying into a camera brand because of the cheap AF primes (50/1.8 and 85/1.8), then yes, pls go buy a Canikon. Don't forget you need to cough out a lot more to fill up the other gaps from 12mm all the way to 300mm.
Just note that a MF M85/2 cost half that of the Canikon 85/1.8 and performs from f2. No auto of course, but if you only consider that a photographer only needs a good loptics and takes care of the rest, then its a deal that can't be beaten.


Think it over. Jumping ship will cost you a lot more for not much benefit.
Unless money is no issue or you need those 300/2.8; 400/4 lenses.

 

[orlyandico]

well AF speed depends a lot on the lens. My K20D focuses quickly enough with the 16-45, which benefits from (1) a short focal length, so DOF is deeper and more forgiving of focus errors; (2) short focusing throw.

AF speed with the D-FA 100 is, however, execrable.

I've also had bad luck with the FA 50 indoors. I guess I gotta go to Cathay Photo and try out the K-r and K-5..


I did have an 85/2 prime (a Jupiter-9 actually). What can I say.. I'm not good enough a photographer to use those MF primes for things like portraits wide-open, because subject movement (or shooter movement) throws off the focus. And I already have a split-screen and eyepiece magnifier... I have tried to use the D-FA as a portrait lens, but its overly long throw and slow AF makes it cumbersome at best.

 

[pinholecam]

I'm not one of those guys. I have a Pentax P3N!

And have been using K10D and K20D for over three years now. So this "dark side" talk sounds much like those folks over on PentaxForums who heap scorn on everyone who dares question Pentax.

But I guess nobody will disagree when I say that the K20D AF performance leaves (much) to be desired. So what do I do?


detritus: you're right that MPE-65 is really drool-worthy, and it's MF so even an ancient EOS 10D or 300D would do! but the working distance is tiny.

A problem with a reversed lens (I do have the reversing adapter as well..) is that you can't stop down!!!

(some German company makes an adapter for... GASP! Canon! that allows the EOS body to stop down the lens even if it's reversed, since Canon uses electronic aperture stopdown)

That guy with the K200D and those great macro photos... he uses a reversed lens. But the DOF is so shallow because you can't stop down a reversed lens easily, so he takes a lot of photos and stacks them, changing the focus point slightly between each shot. Too much work for me, I'm afraid..

Cool..... its all in jest.
What I want to say is that you are probably convinced with your decision to jump ATM.
Just like LBA, the compulsion will be very strong.

Just give yourself some time to think it through.

 

[ricsal]

Just jump la. hehe.

From there now we can compare 60D & K-5 AF speed when Macro. XD

Just kidding.

But seriously, for macro I dun really care much on the AF speed. Unless u wanna take those high speed Macros of bees etc. So far with Kx and K-5, the K-5 Macro AF I feel is faster. But not sure abt Kr.