More ERP gantries, higher ERP rates to ease congestion!!!

[night86mare]

i am comparing based on current cost of ownership,

eg:
a Lexus LS450 owner can spend $2K on petrol every month and a Chery QQ spend $700 on petrol. This is the lifestyle their current income can afford.
However, because of a change in gov't policy, the rich Lexus owner sees himself saving $800+ a year. While the Chery QQ (road tax $418) will have to pay $57.3 more every year (based on earlier $0.5 per day).

I'm not comparing FC or how much a Lexus cost compared to a QQ. If you think it rationaly instead of replying for the sake of replying. Why should a rich Lexus owner save $834 while a not as rich man who needs a Chery QQ to ferry this son to the in-laws in the morning and wife to work pay $57.3 more every year? Is there no logic in my calculation?

...got, you unhappy very easy, just up petrol tax lor

then the big big cars all pay a lot more

let's see, will always have gst rebates and all that what, your poor qq owner definitely going to get more than $57 no?

you take the ceteris paribus argument to your advantage, putting sunken costs as "out of the loop of calculation" - do you think that is fair?

i am wondering - why no one wishes to acknowledge that the income gap will widen as the economy progresses. that is a fact. you can't just all go from a range of $200 to $900 for example, to $5200 to $5900. there will be more differentiation, it will only be more like $900 to $7200. and it is ONLY the natural course of things that the rich can get richer, and the poor can get poorer. a compression of incomes will only spell bad, not good. if you're wondering why i'm dragging this in, it's because i think that's what all this complaining is about. the best part is, most of the people complaining are probably the sort who move from $300 to $4000 or so, but they all want to be $7200, so they are always complaining.

like it or not, most people don't get rich because money dropped down from the sky for them. most people don't stay poor because the sky sucks money from them. there are reasons, there are always, always reasons, and because of that, to be honest there is no onus on any government to make sure that there is a compression of incomes - because it's absolutely silly unless you are thinking emotionally. all they have an obligation to do is to make sure that the lower tiers get enough to get by. whoever said life would be easy? this all comes out of people wanting a smooth sailing, spoon in your mouth life.

i can appreciate the need to vent your frustrations some what. you experience a rise of prices of perhaps 2% and you're jumping. but there is nothing that can't be solved - merely an adjustment in attitudes and lifestyle. has life in singapore improved? there are only 2 situations where a lot of people are unhappy - when they have time and a full belly to think about things to amuse themselves, or when they have an empty belly and all they can think about is the empty belly. in between, normally people will try to fill their bellies. now - i see a rise of forum letters in the st forums saying that oh, we should all migrate, blah.. good! come, come to europe and get a straight-off 100% price increase, or 200% price increase, depending on your country you choose. it is the land of the brave, it is the rewarding land of liberation and freedom. you can come. as i always say, it is easy to see that the glass is half-empty. it is also easy to see that the glass is half-full. but seeing BOTH is what's more important, and we should think about the things that matter, like finding a niche area so that the economy remains viable, instead of sitting around on the ground picking at things to be unhappy about in life. least of all - things that are a bloody given, look at the below and you'll see what i mean.

you know, if you look at the kopitiam section ar, got one thread ar, titled "is singapore losing its competitiveness". it is an interesting topic that is honestly, in some way, possibly more fruitful than all these "xxx go up" threads, or "clubsnap under maintenance" threads. but then, it has less views than all of these, and less replies. truly, truly sad. it speaks VOLUMES about our mentality today - i.e. one determined to be unhappy and negative and unrealistically pessimistic.

 

[StreetShooter]

i am wondering - why no one wishes to acknowledge that the income gap will widen as the economy progresses. that is a fact. you can't just all go from a range of $200 to $900 for example, to $5200 to $5900. there will be more differentiation, it will only be more like $900 to $7200. and it is ONLY the natural course of things that the rich can get richer, and the poor can get poorer. a compression of incomes will only spell bad, not good. if you're wondering why i'm dragging this in, it's because i think that's what all this complaining is about. the best part is, most of the people complaining are probably the sort who move from $300 to $4000 or so, but they all want to be $7200, so they are always complaining.

like it or not, most people don't get rich because money dropped down from the sky for them. most people don't stay poor because the sky sucks money from them. there are reasons, there are always, always reasons, and because of that, to be honest there is no onus on any government to make sure that there is a compression of incomes - because it's absolutely silly unless you are thinking emotionally. all they have an obligation to do is to make sure that the lower tiers get enough to get by. whoever said life would be easy? this all comes out of people wanting a smooth sailing, spoon in your mouth life.

i can appreciate the need to vent your frustrations some what. you experience a rise of prices of perhaps 2% and you're jumping. but there is nothing that can't be solved - merely an adjustment in attitudes and lifestyle. has life in singapore improved? there are only 2 situations where a lot of people are unhappy - when they have time and a full belly to think about things to amuse themselves, or when they have an empty belly and all they can think about is the empty belly. in between, normally people will try to fill their bellies. now - i see a rise of forum letters in the st forums saying that oh, we should all migrate, blah.. good! come, come to europe and get a straight-off 100% price increase, or 200% price increase, depending on your country you choose. it is the land of the brave, it is the rewarding land of liberation and freedom. you can come. as i always say, it is easy to see that the glass is half-empty. it is also easy to see that the glass is half-full. but seeing BOTH is what's more important, and we should think about the things that matter, like finding a niche area so that the economy remains viable, instead of sitting around on the ground picking at things to be unhappy about in life. least of all - things that are a bloody given, look at the below and you'll see what i mean.

you know, if you look at the kopitiam section ar, got one thread ar, titled "is singapore losing its competitiveness". it is an interesting topic that is honestly, in some way, possibly more fruitful than all these "xxx go up" threads, or "clubsnap under maintenance" threads. but then, it has less views than all of these, and less replies. truly, truly sad. it speaks VOLUMES about our mentality today - i.e. one determined to be unhappy and negative and unrealistically pessimistic.

*clap clap clap* well said.

 

[raincool2005]

they should ERP-ed geylang at night.. so much cars and pple.:bsmilie:

 

[yanyewkay]

...got, you unhappy very easy, just up petrol tax lor

then the big big cars all pay a lot more

let's see, will always have gst rebates and all that what, your poor qq owner definitely going to get more than $57 no?

you take the ceteris paribus argument to your advantage, putting sunken costs as "out of the loop of calculation" - do you think that is fair?

i am wondering - why no one wishes to acknowledge that the income gap will widen as the economy progresses. that is a fact. you can't just all go from a range of $200 to $900 for example, to $5200 to $5900. there will be more differentiation, it will only be more like $900 to $7200. and it is ONLY the natural course of things that the rich can get richer, and the poor can get poorer. a compression of incomes will only spell bad, not good. if you're wondering why i'm dragging this in, it's because i think that's what all this complaining is about. the best part is, most of the people complaining are probably the sort who move from $300 to $4000 or so, but they all want to be $7200, so they are always complaining.

like it or not, most people don't get rich because money dropped down from the sky for them. most people don't stay poor because the sky sucks money from them. there are reasons, there are always, always reasons, and because of that, to be honest there is no onus on any government to make sure that there is a compression of incomes - because it's absolutely silly unless you are thinking emotionally. all they have an obligation to do is to make sure that the lower tiers get enough to get by. whoever said life would be easy? this all comes out of people wanting a smooth sailing, spoon in your mouth life.

i can appreciate the need to vent your frustrations some what. you experience a rise of prices of perhaps 2% and you're jumping. but there is nothing that can't be solved - merely an adjustment in attitudes and lifestyle. has life in singapore improved? there are only 2 situations where a lot of people are unhappy - when they have time and a full belly to think about things to amuse themselves, or when they have an empty belly and all they can think about is the empty belly. in between, normally people will try to fill their bellies. now - i see a rise of forum letters in the st forums saying that oh, we should all migrate, blah.. good! come, come to europe and get a straight-off 100% price increase, or 200% price increase, depending on your country you choose. it is the land of the brave, it is the rewarding land of liberation and freedom. you can come. as i always say, it is easy to see that the glass is half-empty. it is also easy to see that the glass is half-full. but seeing BOTH is what's more important, and we should think about the things that matter, like finding a niche area so that the economy remains viable, instead of sitting around on the ground picking at things to be unhappy about in life. least of all - things that are a bloody given, look at the below and you'll see what i mean.

you know, if you look at the kopitiam section ar, got one thread ar, titled "is singapore losing its competitiveness". it is an interesting topic that is honestly, in some way, possibly more fruitful than all these "xxx go up" threads, or "clubsnap under maintenance" threads. but then, it has less views than all of these, and less replies. truly, truly sad. it speaks VOLUMES about our mentality today - i.e. one determined to be unhappy and negative and unrealistically pessimistic.

I've typed a long list of points for you but in the end I agree to disagree, since you are going off topic from ERP I see no point in continuing to bring this topic away from ERP or your whining about not earning $300, $4000 or $7200. This will just invite trolls to whine about how bad their lives already are. This thread isn't about the widening of income gaps if you look at the title, it says "More ERP gantries, higher ERP rates to ease congestion!!!" Even a mod agrees to your OT.

But please, do leave your textbooks in the classrooms, the real world usually operates with a twist unless you're in the medical line where I was told most cases have been well documented with a ready remedy for each case documented.

 

[jsbn]

Having licked and tasted nightmares taking subways at Osaka and Yamanote Circle line in Tokyo, I returned to heave a sigh of relief only to find myself in a bigger nightmare where the horror of our MRT system is not really so much the frequency or the so-called 'squeeze' (maybe I'm too used to Tokyo's squeeze) but the Dua Peh Gongs and Door Gods that plant themselves in front of doors and do the twist instead of going out and giving way to alighting passengers.

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

shiok... i got 3 gantry to beat... all of a sudden...

and 1 right before entering my place... wat a nice way to tell me to work OT.

 

[sammy888]

Having licked and tasted nightmares taking subways at Osaka and Yamanote Circle line in Tokyo, I returned to heave a sigh of relief only to find myself in a bigger nightmare where the horror of our MRT system is not really so much the frequency or the so-called 'squeeze' (maybe I'm too used to Tokyo's squeeze) but the Dua Peh Gongs and Door Gods that plant themselves in front of doors and do the twist instead of going out and giving way to alighting passengers.

You forgot those that love to pick the time they are about to get out of the door way of the train or getting in ...who then choose to slowing waltzing in or out (since they made it in or out while those behind them...be damn if they get cut off by the door closing) and then they start to read or play with their phones ( it got worst in recent times...PSP!!!! )

We should have ERP in the train..only at the door area. If you move in..no extra charge..but if you stay near the door...pay more heheh.... Use the same "tap and go" sensor but extend the range abit so each time it just ZAP a deduction from their MRT card in their wallet or bag! heheh...

 

[mohgui]

Having licked and tasted nightmares taking subways at Osaka and Yamanote Circle line in Tokyo, I returned to heave a sigh of relief only to find myself in a bigger nightmare where the horror of our MRT system is not really so much the frequency or the so-called 'squeeze' (maybe I'm too used to Tokyo's squeeze) but the Dua Peh Gongs and Door Gods that plant themselves in front of doors and do the twist instead of going out and giving way to alighting passengers.

totally agree with the Dua Peh Gongs thingy. damn pissed off when you got idiots who would just stand there and not budge. it's like they expect you to walk through them. the worst thing is, these people do not get off in the next station. they probably get off somewhere towards the end of the ride (where most others do too).

 

[mohgui]

You forgot those that love to pick the time they are about to get out of the door way of the train or getting in ...who then choose to slowing waltzing in or out (since they made it in or out while those behind them...be damn if they get cut off by the door closing) and then they start to read or play with their phones ( it got worst in recent times...PSP!!!! )

this kinda slow waltzing can be seen when people are coming off the downriding escalators. wah lau, there are a bus load of people behind and the slow coaches are still taking their time getting off.

i think singapore is getting too small for its people liao. congestions are everywhere... even in the toilet :bsmilie:

 

[night86mare]

I've typed a long list of points for you but in the end I agree to disagree, since you are going off topic from ERP I see no point in continuing to bring this topic away from ERP or your whining about not earning $300, $4000 or $7200. This will just invite trolls to whine about how bad their lives already are. This thread isn't about the widening of income gaps if you look at the title, it says "More ERP gantries, higher ERP rates to ease congestion!!!" Even a mod agrees to your OT.

But please, do leave your textbooks in the classrooms, the real world usually operates with a twist unless you're in the medical line where I was told most cases have been well documented with a ready remedy for each case documented.

delusion is a great tool by the mind

have a great day, you have reached new heights, especially with that last sentence in the first paragraph, since i do not see any mod doing that. i rest my case, there are few here who can accept dissenting views and give and take.

it is amazing what the people of today think - in the past i was told that when people had a problem with life they would think of a solution to overcome it, making use of whatever they had learnt as they went through life.

today, everytime someone complains, the natural reaction is not just to avoid facing the perceived problem and examining it to see whether it is even a problem at all, and then moving on to see if there is any solution - the natural reaction today is to join them in ranting like the world is coming to an end. singapore not being competitive? oh, i can see why.

 

[yanyewkay]

delusion is a great tool by the mind

have a great day, you have reached new heights, especially with that last sentence in the first paragraph, since i do not see any mod doing that. i rest my case, there are few here who can accept dissenting views and give and take.

it is amazing what the people of today think - in the past i was told that when people had a problem with life they would think of a solution to overcome it, making use of whatever they had learnt as they went through life.

today, everytime someone complains, the natural reaction is not just to avoid facing the perceived problem and examining it to see whether it is even a problem at all, and then moving on to see if there is any solution - the natural reaction today is to join them in ranting like the world is coming to an end. singapore not being competitive? oh, i can see why.

*clap clap clap* well said.

 

[night86mare]

*clap clap clap* well said.

= Even a mod agrees to your OT?

:bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie: well yes, he does seem to be agreeing WITH my ot, not TO my ot. :bsmilie: as to whether it IS ot, well, i already stated that it was, so i wish you'd bring up something new, he with the harp and strings.

p.s. i apologise if you really meant that a mod was agreeing with my ot when you said that he was agreeing to my ot. word play is not a pastime of mine. unfortunately, the meaning and connotation changes drastically with the switching of a simple word , so if you'll pardon me then. otherwise, if you meant what you meant, then please refer to delusion point once again.

 

[spindoctor]

i recently did a personal survey of most of the overseas students that i know, from various parts of the world

ALL of them grudgingly admitted that the world's best transport IS the world's best transport :bsmilie: ok, except maybe hong kong's system on par. so maybe second best. maybe, we all need to go to hell to appreciate what heaven is.

Did these overseas students come from highly stressed societies like the one we have here? If not then the comparison is unfair.

 

[hongsien]

Did these overseas students come from highly stressed societies like the one we have here? If not then the comparison is unfair.

You have not been/lived to/in HK to see how relaxed live actually is in Singapore

And yes, due to the small size of Singapore the transport here is pretty good, but off course there can be many improvements made, nothing is perfect lah! I did find that on certain lines and on slow times the trains take longer to come (compared to 10 years ago when the trains DID come faster when strangely enough there were less passengers), perhaps to get more passengers into the trains?

Perhaps this is due to their commitment to make more profit for what/whoever hehehehe

HS

 

[spindoctor]

You have not been/lived to/in HK to see how relaxed live actually is in Singapore

Care to explain why you think I have not been to HK? And how does this relate to the question I asked?

 

[night86mare]

Did these overseas students come from highly stressed societies like the one we have here? If not then the comparison is unfair.

london is the most relaxed place you could ever go to, really. that is why all the cab drivers are so friendly and all the people on the streets in the morning always walk very fast. :thumbsup: if you want me to list down all the problems with the tube system here, i could wax lyrical. i can't speak for the rest because i have not been there, "highly stressed" is subjective. i see a lot of stressed people in singapore, at the same time i see people who are very busy, but they have no stress. stress is a state of mind. of course there are places where people tend to be more stressed than not. is singapore really very stressed? we have no worry where our next meal is coming from, for most of us, like it or not there is still a certain level of basic respect.

my friend's friend in new york, he went for lunch break, come back office pass cannot work. security guard brought down his belongings and told him he had been fired over lunch. go figure. there is always compromise, you win some, you will lose some - complaining about the inadequacies is all fine and dandy, but acknowledging the virtues is just as important.

besides - come on, whether a transportation system is world-class has no link with how stressed a society is. that's like saying that whether the public toilets are world-class is linked to how stressed a society is. so if society more stressed, the public toilets will be dirtier cos everyone anyhow do business?

 

[vince123123]

Not sure why the Fullerton gantry is put up also, considering that the speeds there are higher than the targetted 20-30km/h publicised.

 

[compro_1975]

Not sure why the Fullerton gantry is put up also, considering that the speeds there are higher than the targetted 20-30km/h publicised.

fulerton meanin infront of the hotel???

mayb is cos of F1 bah:bsmilie:

 

[raincool2005]

london is the most relaxed place you could ever go to, really. that is why all the cab drivers are so friendly and all the people on the streets in the morning always walk very fast. :thumbsup: if you want me to list down all the problems with the tube system here, i could wax lyrical. i can't speak for the rest because i have not been there, "highly stressed" is subjective. i see a lot of stressed people in singapore, at the same time i see people who are very busy, but they have no stress. stress is a state of mind. of course there are places where people tend to be more stressed than not. is singapore really very stressed? we have no worry where our next meal is coming from, for most of us, like it or not there is still a certain level of basic respect.

my friend's friend in new york, he went for lunch break, come back office pass cannot work. security guard brought down his belongings and told him he had been fired over lunch. go figure. there is always compromise, you win some, you will lose some - complaining about the inadequacies is all fine and dandy, but acknowledging the virtues is just as important.

besides - come on, whether a transportation system is world-class has no link with how stressed a society is. that's like saying that whether the public toilets are world-class is linked to how stressed a society is. so if society more stressed, the public toilets will be dirtier cos everyone anyhow do business?

to be frank, SG is still a better place to live compare to other places.. people somehow got money to buy car and condo and yet complain stress due to lack high cost of living.

 

[wind30]

i am comparing based on current cost of ownership,

eg:
a Lexus LS450 owner can spend $2K on petrol every month and a Chery QQ spend $700 on petrol. This is the lifestyle their current income can afford.
However, because of a change in gov't policy, the rich Lexus owner sees himself saving $800+ a year. While the Chery QQ (road tax $418) will have to pay $57.3 more every year (based on earlier $0.5 per day).

I'm not comparing FC or how much a Lexus cost compared to a QQ. If you think it rationaly instead of replying for the sake of replying. Why should a rich Lexus owner save $834 while a not as rich man who needs a Chery QQ to ferry this son to the in-laws in the morning and wife to work pay $57.3 more every year? Is there no logic in my calculation?

Personally, I don't see what is wrong with the Lexus owner saving more than the cherry QQ owner. Common sense what since the Lexus owner is paying much more in the first place.

Seriously, I think the government do not have to concern about "cherry QQ" owners as since they can afford a car, they not too badly off. I think government help should only be rendered to those who are REALLY poor and unable to get out of the poverty trap, ie so poor that they cannot afford education to their kids, etc.

I REALLY REALLY don't want to see my taxes going to subsidies my fellow singaporean in buying "cherry QQ" ... As some of them have said, public transport should be the focus of the government as if I cannot afford a car, I can take bus/mrt. If I cannot afford bus/mrt, there is REALLY a problem.

As to living in other places, I feel there are better places to LIVE provided you have the money. I have worked in California for 2 months, my brother has been there working for 2 years and I think that place is great. Frankly, if I have earned enough and want to retire, Singapore will be near the bottom of the list.

But if I want to work and live, I think singapore is still a good place, partly because of the inertia involved in migrating and looking for a job in a foreign place. I have my parents in-laws all here. The money is not too bad. The weather sucks and the country is small but life here is stable and peaceful.