Import Models Jenny Chu and Helen Su in Singapore!!

[crustacea]

it will be good if u can explain clearly to all CSers who have asked questions in this thread as it is... ... ...


TaaaaaDaaaaaaaaa!


the first time ever in CS where an organised paid-shoot participation is subjected to portfolio review!


and also explain on how the shoot will be carried out... etc. this might clear alot of misunderstanding later on in the shoot shud it happen.


thank you.

Hi everyone, there's quite a lot of comments here, some good, some bad. Guess I can't please everyone.

Let me try to explain the rationale for the portfolio. These models are not freelance models. They do this for a living and have a certain standard and fame where they come from. And like cheeseme commented, what if a rich pervert pays for a shoot and takes a bunch of undesirable pictures that are spread on the internet? It might affect the models' reputation and career negatively.
It is only natural that they want to protect themselves and their career. Try to put yourselves in the ladies' shoes

As for the "soliciting" comment, I think its uncalled for and unfair. They have plenty of events around the world (different parts of the states, Japan, etc). They do not need to "solicit" any photoshoots.

OK, now for the question about how the shoot is conducted, the theme, location, etc. I could force a theme on you. Easy and no hassle for me. I left it open-ended because you, as a photographer, can let your creative juices flow. Isn't this what being a photographer is all about? Don't you want to do your own theme once in a while? YOU are in control of where you want the shoot to be done; YOU are in control of how to pose the model; YOU control the elements of the shoot. I don't know about you, but I personally feel its a good idea

 

[Cheesecake]

Hi everyone, there's quite a lot of comments here, some good, some bad. Guess I can't please everyone.

Let me try to explain the rationale for the portfolio. These models are not freelance models. They do this for a living and have a certain standard and fame where they come from. And like cheeseme commented, what if a rich pervert pays for a shoot and takes a bunch of undesirable pictures that are spread on the internet? It might affect the models' reputation and career negatively.
It is only natural that they want to protect themselves and their career. Try to put yourselves in the ladies' shoes

As for the "soliciting" comment, I think its uncalled for and unfair. They have plenty of events around the world (different parts of the states, Japan, etc). They do not need to "solicit" any photoshoots.

OK, now for the question about how the shoot is conducted, the theme, location, etc. I could force a theme on you. Easy and no hassle for me. I left it open-ended because you, as a photographer, can let your creative juices flow. Isn't this what being a photographer is all about? Don't you want to do your own theme once in a while? YOU are in control of where you want the shoot to be done; YOU are in control of how to pose the model; YOU control the elements of the shoot. I don't know about you, but I personally feel its a good idea

:thumbsup:

so CSers who are confident of their works... and are interested to join in the shoot, pls contact Organiser crustacea.

 

[sprewell]

Let me try to explain the rationale for the portfolio. These models are not freelance models. They do this for a living and have a certain standard and fame where they come from. And like cheeseme commented, what if a rich pervert pays for a shoot and takes a bunch of undesirable pictures that are spread on the internet? It might affect the models' reputation and career negatively.

It is only natural that they want to protect themselves and their career. Try to put yourselves in the ladies' shoes

OK im going to risk getting flamed but i need to get this out of my head.

Have you personally seen the models' website? As far as i am concerned, the nature of their shoots is nothing short of undesirable.

Which is why i do not understand why only people with a good portfolio are qualified to shoot them.

I hope this incident does not kickstart a future trend where good photogs are qualified to shoot this and lousy photogs are not qualified to shoot that. There is an air of arrogance by labeling someone as qualified to participate in a photoshoot.

Photography is first and foremost supposed to be a fun thing. I certainly do not need to be told i am qualified or not, to shoot a particular subject.

 

[kitfox-sg]

I believe that even if the content on their sites are undesirable (if we were to be judgemental) , they were still taken by qualified photographers, who were themselves subjected to 'qualification' criterias.

photography can be a fun thing, but to others it's a professional pursuit for both shooter and model. its is thus natural for professional models to want qualified photographers to shoot them esp. if they're reputation is concerned. This is a profession that requires a certain skill level, and this skill level includes or excludes individuals.

 

[waileong]

First and foremost, fun only applies for photography as a hobby. It appears these models look upon photography as more than that. With this in mind, there is nothing wrong with selection.

OK im going to risk getting flamed but i need to get this out of my head.

Have you personally seen the models' website? As far as i am concerned, the nature of their shoots is nothing short of undesirable.

Which is why i do not understand why only people with a good portfolio are qualified to shoot them.

I hope this incident does not kickstart a future trend where good photogs are qualified to shoot this and lousy photogs are not qualified to shoot that. There is an air of arrogance by labeling someone as qualified to participate in a photoshoot.

Photography is first and foremost supposed to be a fun thing. I certainly do not need to be told i am qualified or not, to shoot a particular subject.

 

[XiaoYang]

Hi everyone, there's quite a lot of comments here, some good, some bad. Guess I can't please everyone.

Let me try to explain the rationale for the portfolio. These models are not freelance models. They do this for a living and have a certain standard and fame where they come from. And like cheeseme commented, what if a rich pervert pays for a shoot and takes a bunch of undesirable pictures that are spread on the internet? It might affect the models' reputation and career negatively.
It is only natural that they want to protect themselves and their career. Try to put yourselves in the ladies' shoes

As for the "soliciting" comment, I think its uncalled for and unfair. They have plenty of events around the world (different parts of the states, Japan, etc). They do not need to "solicit" any photoshoots.

OK, now for the question about how the shoot is conducted, the theme, location, etc. I could force a theme on you. Easy and no hassle for me. I left it open-ended because you, as a photographer, can let your creative juices flow. Isn't this what being a photographer is all about? Don't you want to do your own theme once in a while? YOU are in control of where you want the shoot to be done; YOU are in control of how to pose the model; YOU control the elements of the shoot. I don't know about you, but I personally feel its a good idea

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:Larry..

 

[Zenten]

I believe that even if the content on their sites are undesirable (if we were to be judgemental) , they were still taken by qualified photographers, who were themselves subjected to 'qualification' criterias.

photography can be a fun thing, but to others it's a professional pursuit for both shooter and model. its is thus natural for professional models to want qualified photographers to shoot them esp. if they're reputation is concerned. This is a profession that requires a certain skill level, and this skill level includes or excludes individuals.

Then again, are overly-qualified photographers entitled to discounts, rebates or TFCD? :bsmilie: Btw, I am not speaking for myself ............... :sweatsm:

 

[kitfox-sg]

Then again, are overly-qualified photographers entitled to discounts, rebates or TFCD? :bsmilie: Btw, I am not speaking for myself ............... :sweatsm:

no,its not about price discrimination, they are entitled to overlook these models who's portfolios do not match up to their expectations and look for qualified ones

 

[Deadpoet]

To beat the dead horse, I found it totally unacceptable that the photographer, who is the paying party, must submit his/hers portfolio to someone whom we have no idea who, so that the portfolio will be judge and deemed worthy of them paying $250 an hour to shoot the models, who in this equation are the receiving party of the monies. Totally backwards in logic.

However, if that is the parameters/business model Helen, Jenny and Crustacea choose to use, so be it. After all, a model can set her ground rules, such as no nudes, no lingerie, no bikini ... and so on and so forth. Only in this case, the parameters are very subjective, not as clear cut as the no this and no that we see often here.

This is their choice. They want to throw in a very subjective element in this business transaction, it's their right and it's their shoot.

Then as the photographer, we can also be very critical. Not only will we have to pay $250/hour, we have to subject our portfolio to someone, who may or may not be qualified, for judgments. On the flip side, the degree of scrutiny and subjective evaluation, of the models involved, have and will be raise to a much higher level. It is only fair, things goes both ways.

Cheers.

Oh, one more thing. Will the model signs full releases?

 

[XiaoYang]

To beat the dead horse, I found it totally unacceptable that the photographer, who is the paying party, must submit his/hers portfolio to someone whom we have no idea who, so that the portfolio will be judge and deemed worthy of them paying $250 an hour to shoot the models, who in this equation are the receiving party of the monies. Totally backwards in logic.

However, if that is the parameters/business model Helen, Jenny and Crustacea choose to use, so be it. After all, a model can set her ground rules, such as no nudes, no lingerie, no bikini ... and so on and so forth. Only in this case, the parameters are very subjective, not as clear cut as the no this and no that we see often here.

This is their choice. They want to throw in a very subjective element in this business transaction, it's their right and it's their shoot.

Then as the photographer, we can also be very critical. Not only will we have to pay $250/hour, we have to subject our portfolio to someone, who may or may not be qualified, for judgments. On the flip side, the degree of scrutiny and subjective evaluation, of the models involved, have and will be raise to a much higher level. It is only fair, things goes both ways.

Cheers.

Oh, one more thing. Will the model signs full releases?

As in like American Idols??

 

[PyeeL]

strongly agree, im tired of seeing the same face ''typical'' female models here on cs like again and again the same face only shot by different photographers. like seriously, is there not enough girls in singapore anymore? LOL its like one photographer shot this girl and post it on cs and then the other photographer wants to shoot her too and soo does the others...... are we running out of female models?

NO offence tho to all the female models here on cs, im just getting bored of it. some of you are ok but some are just OMG speechlessly doesnt make sense.

Hey Nec. You haven't seen their websites have you. Talk about make up.
Your argument regarding this thread is totally worthless and of zero value, and upon seeing your post I just have to raise this. The lack of female models in Singapore is one thing, and it just might be because of this that we see the same faces. But what's wrong. You're a model too, I know. Don't you do TFCDs as well for different photographers too? Isn't your position contradicting what you're saying. You get bored of seeing the female models' faces, there's a simple and straightforward solution to it. Stop visiting the Portraits and Poses section. Otherwise I'm sure CS members mostly have the models' names as their title. Recognise those you have seen before and get bored of and don't enter the thread.

 

[soeypixels]

Hey Nec. You haven't seen their websites have you. Talk about make up.
Your argument regarding this thread is totally worthless and of zero value, and upon seeing your post I just have to raise this. The lack of female models in Singapore is one thing, and it just might be because of this that we see the same faces. But what's wrong. You're a model too, I know. Don't you do TFCDs as well for different photographers too? Isn't your position contradicting what you're saying. You get bored of seeing the female models' faces, there's a simple and straightforward solution to it. Stop visiting the Portraits and Poses section. Otherwise I'm sure CS members mostly have the models' names as their title. Recognise those you have seen before and get bored of and don't enter the thread.

HAHAhhaha
we have lesser male model .. we are gg to get sick of him soon?

 

[Long Thai Bean]

Personally I feel there is a serious logic flaw in the TS argument for seeing the photographers' portfolio ... But that would be a long discussion and argument that I think it is only courteous to him not to start here ....

Afterall he is trying to run a business ....

But after 3 pages ... numerous discussions and ONE clarification post by the TS .... there are still certain nagging questions that have not been answered ... I would like to formally ask for a clarification on these points if it is possible ....

For $250 per hour per model ..... What am I (the photographer) getting ?
1) Does it include studio or a particular location (hotel or otherwise)?
2) What level is the models working up to ... (incase you are not familiar...)
i) fashion / galmour
ii) implied nude
iii) artistic nude
iv) glamour nude / full frontal
v) erotic nude
vi) or higher
3) Is there a limitation to the theme if they are within the models' work limit ... or does the theme have to be subjected to an approval panel as well?
4) Who will be looking and judging / approving my portfolio once it is submitted?
5) What about model release ... Will the models sign a full release?
6) Are the rates base on per photographer or per session ... Can I share the $250 per hour?
7) Can I bring my creative them on set with me ... (meaning there may be an extra / additional 2-4 person)?

I hope the above can be answered (in this thread) so that it is easier for everyone to make a decision.

Thanks.

 

[PyeeL]

HAHAhhaha
we have lesser male model .. we are gg to get sick of him soon?

Yes, we are. This actually supports his own theory.

 

[Zeisser]

Yeah in agreement with Long Thai Bean's take on Model Release forms.Being Americans
if anything goes awry they will certainly be sueing the photogs until pants drop..

 

[aselley]

Ok...really this thread has moved far from what it should be. If you are that worried about getting sued for misuse of photos because the Model is not Singaporean then I think you better not ever shoot a photo of anyone who is not of here.

The question of whether the Models will sign a full release is a valid one. Speculation that you may be sued if they don't or even do, is more a sign of either your intent to miss-use the photos or rather the lack of faith you have in the Model release you use. If its the later then I suggest you find a better example to copy (look at Nat Geo for example). If its the former, then maybe photography is not the hobby for you.

Yes, this is costly, compared to what you are used to here on CS, but seriously hire Fiona Xie or even Jamie Yeo for an hours photo shoot and you will see its really quite resonable for the quality of Model you are getting. These women are professionals...they are not someone's girlfriend or someone trying to pad a portfolio while starting out. If this is something you are interested in this is a chance to work WITH a model, one who will take instruction, be automatically relaxed, professional, and above all probably collaborate with you since she knows what and how she looks best...also think on this...if you think the price is resonable this is a chance to add to your portfolio a higher level of model and open the corresponding door to more of the same.

If it's too expensive for you, so be it? If you can't think of a theme, or need someone to guide your shoot, so be it? The offer and chance is being made, take it, or leave it? But speculation on the possibility of being sued is just flaming for the sake of flaming.

Ohhh, and if you really want to know if they will sign a release, to what level they are willing to go, and what themes would be considered...I would suggest you just PM the TS.

 

[Zeisser]

Ok...really this thread has moved far from what it should be. If you are that worried about getting sued for misuse of photos because the Model is not Singaporean then I think you better not ever shoot a photo of anyone who is not of here.

The question of whether the Models will sign a full release is a valid one. Speculation that you may be sued if they don't or even do, is more a sign of either your intent to miss-use the photos or rather the lack of faith you have in the Model release you use. If its the later then I suggest you find a better example to copy (look at Nat Geo for example). If its the former, then maybe photography is not the hobby for you.

Yes, this is costly, compared to what you are used to here on CS, but seriously hire Fiona Xie or even Jamie Yeo for an hours photo shoot and you will see its really quite resonable for the quality of Model you are getting. These women are professionals...they are not someone's girlfriend or someone trying to pad a portfolio while starting out. If this is something you are interested in this is a chance to work WITH a model, one who will take instruction, be automatically relaxed, professional, and above all probably collaborate with you since she knows what and how she looks best...also think on this...if you think the price is resonable this is a chance to add to your portfolio a higher level of model and open the corresponding door to more of the same.

If it's too expensive for you, so be it? If you can't think of a theme, or need someone to guide your shoot, so be it? The offer and chance is being made, take it, or leave it? But speculation on the possibility of being sued is just flaming for the sake of flaming.

Ohhh, and if you really want to know if they will sign a release, to what level they are willing to go, and what themes would be considered...I would suggest you just PM the TS.

I am only agreeing with Long Thai Bean's take on the Model Release form thing and had no
intention to flame for THE sake of flaming.Since it's a forum am just giving my 2cts.

It's not my forte to blow $250.00/hr for such crap shoots anyway and for your info
have never sign up to participate in any of the organized photoshoots advertised in CS
not now not ever... period !

 

[Zeisser]

If its the former, then maybe photography is not the hobby for you.

One more thing photography has been my hobby since the Eighties and it's a no brainer.

 

[crustacea]

OK, let me answer Long Thai Bean's questions first.

1) Does it include studio or a particular location (hotel or otherwise)?
No. The $250 is just for the model. I'm doing this out of goodwill for the models and I'm not getting any $$ out of it. You can pass e $$ to e girls straight, I don't mind. I would just like to hang out behind the scenes and try to learn something from the shoot.

2) What level is the models working up to ... (incase you are not familiar...)
i) fashion / glamour
ii) implied nude

3) Is there a limitation to the theme if they are within the models' work limit ... or does the theme have to be subjected to an approval panel as well?
As long as its within the limits of question 2, and that the model is comfortable with the pose.

4) Who will be looking and judging / approving my portfolio once it is submitted?
I will be e 1st to look through the portfolios. I admit, I'm not an expert, so I just weed out the really bad ones and let e girls judge the rest

5) What about model release ... Will the models sign a full release?
You need to provide it

6) Are the rates base on per photographer or per session ... Can I share the $250 per hour?
This isn't exactly a group shoot. I can discuss with them if its just 1 other photographer, but definitely not a crowd

7) Can I bring my creative them on set with me ... (meaning there may be an extra / additional 2-4 person)?
Yes, you can bring your team along. Its pretty common to have helpers and assistants during a professional shoot, so the girls are used to it

 

[crustacea]

OK, Ladies and Gentlemen, I think that this thread has become more than the original intention of looking for interested and enthusiastic photographers for a shoot. I do not intend to start an internal war here.

In any case, the girls' schedules are kinda packed for the next few and and I thank everyone that has responded to me.

I will be closing this thread soon. So as not to end things too abruptly, I will only close this at the end of the day (13 Nov). Those of you who wish to have any grievances answered after that, do feel free to drop me a pm.