Filters Filters Filters


montroy

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Feb 24, 2009
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#1
How many filters do you guys owe?

Do you leave the filter permanently on the lens? Or take out after every use?

If using more than one filter, does it make any difference to the configurations of the filters, ie, lens/CPL/UV or lens/UV/CPL, or do you lens/CPL/ND/UV or any other formats you lay out. Is there any difference to which comes first?

Pls share your expert opinions. Thanks.
 

Del_CtrlnoAlt

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Feb 15, 2003
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#2
How many filters do you guys owe?

Do you leave the filter permanently on the lens? Or take out after every use?

If using more than one filter, does it make any difference to the configurations of the filters, ie, lens/CPL/UV or lens/UV/CPL, or do you lens/CPL/ND/UV or any other formats you lay out. Is there any difference to which comes first?

Pls share your expert opinions. Thanks.
one at a time... you should avoid stacking unless necessary.

most people due to constraint or plain bo chup, will stack Cir-Pol on top of UV filter/Skylight filter. cos the UV/Skylight is acting as their front element protector.
 

Numnumball

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Mar 6, 2009
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#3
How many filters do you guys owe?

Do you leave the filter permanently on the lens? Or take out after every use?

If using more than one filter, does it make any difference to the configurations of the filters, ie, lens/CPL/UV or lens/UV/CPL, or do you lens/CPL/ND/UV or any other formats you lay out. Is there any difference to which comes first?

Pls share your expert opinions. Thanks.
I own UVs/CPL/NDs/GNDs(Slot-In)

Personally, i will leave a UV filter on for most of my lens apart from Macro, will remove for UWA when doing long exposure/night photography. It is essential for me, mainly for general protection purposes in the absence of a lens hood but u will have to content with lens flare and ghosting problems if used inappropriately (in direct sunlight etc..). But good Multi-coated ones will reduce internal reflection problems.

Normally to prevent vignetting (even though if u stop down), stacking of filters is strongly not recommended. Take CPL for instance, it's best to use it on its own, removing UV. (bear in mind with additional glass, u might suffer for IQ degration, quality would be heavily impaired).Simply put, as a general rule-of-thumb, you should use as few filters as possible.

But in rare cases, i will stack GND with ND to obtain the effect i want, but that the furthest i will go.. My 2 cents worth :)
 

ttmmfast

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Jul 13, 2009
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#4
one at a time... you should avoid stacking unless necessary.

most people due to constraint or plain bo chup, will stack Cir-Pol on top of UV filter/Skylight filter. cos the UV/Skylight is acting as their front element protector.
But I yet to see advise to NOT use multiple filters! Normally I leave my UV unless it is a wide angle lens. My worry is the screw thread on the lens going bad if keep putting on and off.

Another simple reason why multiple filters can be used is high end filters like B+W has slim filters (so can stack on wide angle) or Wide filters (that is outer threads are wider). Why even bother to have threads in the front if cannot stack? What about Lee filters, They allow you to mount multiple filters.

Haze, UV filters are supposed to give you greater sharpness.
Skylight KR1.5 etc is to get rid of the blue tint and give warmer feel to be used in place of UV or Haze

On top of 1 of the above, you may need a polarized (not just bluer sky but cut out reflections), a B&W filter (if shooting B&W film), a softening (to get specific feel), ND (too bright and wants full open), center ND (to prevent vignetting),.......

If you shooting digital, just use a good UV or Haze and a good circular Polarizer; notice that the Hoya HD range only got 2 filters. Shoot also a copy in RAW. PP after that. All other filter effect can be added as long as you have the right software/plug-ins.

Good filters are expensive because of QC on coating, flatness, construction and glass quality (affecting transmission). So far I have no issues with stacking filters although mentally I will eventually upgrade my B&W filters from Hoya to the rather expensive and hard to come by B+W MRC or Heliopan.
 

montroy

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Feb 24, 2009
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#5
erm, B&M = B+W? hope i got that right.

currently i have the B+W MRC CPL slim which doesnt have a front thread. for most of my lens, i have a UV on them permanently (unless taken off for cleaning). yet i have the impression that the natural config is lens/CPL/UV (since CPL most expensive, makes more sense to risk the UV being scratched, imo).
 

Del_CtrlnoAlt

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Feb 15, 2003
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#6
But I yet to see advise to NOT use multiple filters! Normally I leave my UV unless it is a wide angle lens. My worry is the screw thread on the lens going bad if keep putting on and off.

Another simple reason why multiple filters can be used is high end filters like B+W has slim filters (so can stack on wide angle) or Wide filters (that is outer threads are wider). Why even bother to have threads in the front if cannot stack? What about Lee filters, They allow you to mount multiple filters.

Haze, UV filters are supposed to give you greater sharpness.
Skylight KR1.5 etc is to get rid of the blue tint and give warmer feel to be used in place of UV or Haze

On top of 1 of the above, you may need a polarized (not just bluer sky but cut out reflections), a B&W filter (if shooting B&W film), a softening (to get specific feel), ND (too bright and wants full open), center ND (to prevent vignetting),.......

If you shooting digital, just use a good UV or Haze and a good circular Polarizer; notice that the Hoya HD range only got 2 filters. Shoot also a copy in RAW. PP after that. All other filter effect can be added as long as you have the right software/plug-ins.

Good filters are expensive because of QC on coating, flatness, construction and glass quality (affecting transmission). So far I have no issues with stacking filters although mentally I will eventually upgrade my B&W filters from Hoya to the rather expensive and hard to come by B+W MRC or Heliopan.
something i hate about this forum AGAIN. is people just like to get jumpy... haiz...

did i advise him NOT to use multiple filters? i said, avoid stacking unless necessary... carry on worshipping all the expensive filters and stack all you want... sheesh...
 

ttmmfast

New Member
Jul 13, 2009
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Geylang
#7
How many filters do you guys owe?

Do you leave the filter permanently on the lens? Or take out after every use?

If using more than one filter, does it make any difference to the configurations of the filters, ie, lens/CPL/UV or lens/UV/CPL, or do you lens/CPL/ND/UV or any other formats you lay out. Is there any difference to which comes first?

Pls share your expert opinions. Thanks.
Another advise, buy UV filters "better" than your lens.

If you have kit lens, at least get a multicoated Kenko (same maker as Hoya).

Polarizers, B+W, etc, buy biggest practical if you have many lenses because they are expensive. Like ND400. If you have multi system worse, like my SLR filters are 72mm and up but my RF will be blocked so I need to get another almost complete set @ 58mm (most RF lenses no wider than that). Big headache when I jumped into RF for its size and quality lenses.

Another advise, do not use polarizers on 20mm and below, they do not work, Sky is going to be beautifully blue anyway when you go 20mm and below. Needs red filter for B&W though if you like drama.
 

montroy

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Feb 24, 2009
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#8
chillax guys. we are all here to share. by my research B+W probablly makes the best of filets? when you say, "buy UV filters better than your lens", do you mean kenko (to match kits lens), hoya (to match 3rd party lens), B+T (to match L/FX lens). sounds a lot of elitism to me, but quite true to match a good filter to a good lens otherwise justice is not given for the pictures the lens might produce.

on a side note, when you go to the shops, do you pronounce B+W as 'B and W' or 'B plus W'? i used to go 'BW'. rofl.
 

ttmmfast

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Jul 13, 2009
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#9
something i hate about this forum AGAIN. is people just like to get jumpy... haiz...

did i advise him NOT to use multiple filters? i said, avoid stacking unless necessary... carry on worshipping all the expensive filters and stack all you want... sheesh...
Sorry, not trying to be jumpy la. I happened to recently spend a lot of time searching (on the net) on using more than 1 filter and could not find anything against it. Instead found many that advise removing all filters; must be some hi-fi people:D. But I still think makes sense to have a filter on to protect the lens. There are filters that are just protectors (those I think is waste of money (they are not even coated) unless you remove them and put on another filter every time) but UV has its function.
 

ttmmfast

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Jul 13, 2009
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Geylang
#10
chillax guys. we are all here to share. by my research B+W probablly makes the best of filets? when you say, "buy UV filters better than your lens", do you mean kenko (to match kits lens), hoya (to match 3rd party lens), B+T (to match L/FX lens). sounds a lot of elitism to me, but quite true to match a good filter to a good lens otherwise justice is not given for the pictures the lens might produce.

on a side note, when you go to the shops, do you pronounce B+W as 'B and W' or 'B plus W'? i used to go 'BW'. rofl.
I also say BW. Just to differentiate B+W the brand from B&W for Black and White and not the Speakers;).

Filter-lens logic:think::
No offence to the brands. Would you put $400 per tyre on your Subaru (I drive one too)? You might right. Would you put $180 per tyre on a 911 Turbo? You won't right, even if reviews says they are very good because you will think that their very good is only relative.
 

aspenx

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Aug 10, 2008
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#11
...

Haze, UV filters are supposed to give you greater sharpness.
Skylight KR1.5 etc is to get rid of the blue tint and give warmer feel to be used in place of UV or Haze

...
I believe this is only half-right. Unless you're talking about shooting at higher altitudes that is...

Skylight filters IMO only degrade your image quality even if you go up to the highest point in Singapore with an unobstructed view to take a photo.

We don't NEED these filters for DSLRs for use in Singapore to give us "better sharpness".

Personally, I only use NC filters and a B+W F Pro 010 which I happened to get along with a purchase.
 

giantcanopy

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2007
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#12
How many filters do you guys owe?

Do you leave the filter permanently on the lens? Or take out after every use?
GND / ND / polariser

No stacking. I only put the filter when necessary.
U can get a clear filter to protect front element as well, but even then like what others mentioned, do not stack it with other filters. More glass means more image degradation along with flares etc with more and more reflective surfaces, and it can be pretty visible with poorer filter glasses.

ryan
 

ttmmfast

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Jul 13, 2009
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Geylang
#13
erm, B&M = B+W? hope i got that right.

currently i have the B+W MRC CPL slim which doesnt have a front thread. for most of my lens, i have a UV on them permanently (unless taken off for cleaning). yet i have the impression that the natural config is lens/CPL/UV (since CPL most expensive, makes more sense to risk the UV being scratched, imo).
Sounds like an idea but normally we buy bigger CPL to save cost, so kind of hard to do lens/CPL/UV.

Also you turn your CPL and you end up also turning whatever you have in front of it.

Another reason is CPL cuts out all the lights coming in at 45 deg so it should be at the front I think.

Read somewhere online that the CPL (we alway check to make sure get maximum effect, ie the 1 stop difference) maximum effect is different when taking horizontal and vertical shot for some reason I do not understand. AND it is TRUE. Try it!:bigeyes:
 

montroy

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Feb 24, 2009
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#14
er, cpl got orientation de? i nv know that. why need to turn? any links to which i can read more about the 1 stop difference?
 

Octarine

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Jan 3, 2008
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#15
er, cpl got orientation de? i nv know that. why need to turn? any links to which i can read more about the 1 stop difference?
Google will help. Search for "How does CPL filter work" - read. Basics of Physics. If you search the existing photography guides here in the forum (hint: sticky threads) you'll find plenty of links as well.
 

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night86mare

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Aug 25, 2006
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#16
But I yet to see advise to NOT use multiple filters! Normally I leave my UV unless it is a wide angle lens. My worry is the screw thread on the lens going bad if keep putting on and off.

Another simple reason why multiple filters can be used is high end filters like B+W has slim filters (so can stack on wide angle) or Wide filters (that is outer threads are wider). Why even bother to have threads in the front if cannot stack? What about Lee filters, They allow you to mount multiple filters.

Haze, UV filters are supposed to give you greater sharpness.
Skylight KR1.5 etc is to get rid of the blue tint and give warmer feel to be used in place of UV or Haze
gotta love gearwhores who have paid big money for their B+W or expensive filters spouting all this nonsense.

no, haze and uv filters do not make a picture sharper than it already is. when the glass was designed for your lens, it was not designed to have a $200 B+W expensive filter on top to "improve" it. optical performance is optimal when there are NO FILTERS whatsoever stacked on top of whatever glass is in the lens.

it is very common sense, do not think that spending the $200 per filter for B+W improves the sharpness of your picture, that is nonsense and hogwash.

DCA is right that with every additional filter added, no matter how expensive, it is still additional chance for FLARE, GHOSTING, IMAGE DEGRADATION. and that's assuming the filter is clean. you also have to factor in the fact that filters will be stained, smudged with whatever stuff is floating around, or whatever you contribute.
 

night86mare

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#17
er, cpl got orientation de? i nv know that. why need to turn? any links to which i can read more about the 1 stop difference?
it is physics. you don't have to know.

simplest way is to find a friend with a decent CPL (at least hoya), and then put it on your own lens, or use his camera, look through viewfinder, and turn.

look at the sky, look at nonmetallic surfaces with reflections inherent. that will tell you how the cpl works.

cpl also works well for nature photography where you want the colors of leaves, etc to pop.
 

night86mare

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#18
something i hate about this forum AGAIN. is people just like to get jumpy... haiz...

did i advise him NOT to use multiple filters? i said, avoid stacking unless necessary... carry on worshipping all the expensive filters and stack all you want... sheesh...
you have to love this forum.

next time you buy a $2K L Lens, people will tell you their $200 expensive B+W filter is going to make it better than it already is.....

then now they will tell you kit lens cheap cheap, put $200 expensive filter will improve the kit lens.

like that, buy $2K L lens for what? might as well save the $1800 difference (assuming kit lens is $200) and pay $200 to buy buy buy B+W. :bsmilie:
 

Octarine

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#19
But I yet to see advise to NOT use multiple filters! Normally I leave my UV unless it is a wide angle lens. My worry is the screw thread on the lens going bad if keep putting on and off.
How does "No stacking" not express the advice for not using multiple filters? Google for 'filter vignetting' and you'll find a very good reason why one should not stack filters. Final impact will depend on lens and filter types used, though.

Haze, UV filters are supposed to give you greater sharpness.
Skylight KR1.5 etc is to get rid of the blue tint and give warmer feel to be used in place of UV or Haze
Not really relevant anymore in times of DSLR and digital post processing. Changes in white balance are easily made afterwards. But I'd like to know how a filter can increase sharpness. So far I have only seen plenty of occasions showing the opposite.

I have UV for occasions / locations where the chances for dust/dirt/water splashes are higher. All the rest my lens goes naked. I haven't seen any lens so far with the remark "works best / optimized for filter XYZ". They are built to work best without any filter. Lousy filters will only add problems (flare, ghosting), good filters go unnoticed.
CPL and other filters are best used with intention, not just "always on".
 

Octarine

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#20
Read somewhere online that the CPL (we alway check to make sure get maximum effect, ie the 1 stop difference) maximum effect is different when taking horizontal and vertical shot for some reason I do not understand. AND it is TRUE. Try it!:bigeyes:
How can you determine for a round filter which way is 'horizontal' and which is 'vertical'? Of course, if one adjusts the CPL for maximum effect and then changes camera orientation without readjusting the CPL then the effect is .. erm.. somewhat limited.
 

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