EOS M: M for Mirrorless

[chicklit]

Heard and read many reviews about people ranting M's af performance. However it just gives me an impression that M may not designed primarily for us photo and gear enthusiasts but maybe for beginners and casual shooters who just want to snap photos. I may be wrong but it gives me an impression that the design is more catered to female customers (I am not saying females are casual shooters). Probably that's why they decide to omit the af part rather than they don't have the technology to do so, to sell it at a more reasonable price (yet earning huge profits).

The reason is very simple, Canon want the piece of cake of mirrorless market, and they rushing for it. Release it first, any problem... wait for next release (which also translated to more sales).
As per design, if the rumor is true, Canon already has the "blueprint" of their competitor's design. They just need to follow it and twist a bit to make it Canon-like.

 

[ageha]

The reason is very simple, Canon want the piece of cake of mirrorless market, and they rushing for it. Release it first, any problem... wait for next release (which also translated to more sales).
As per design, if the rumor is true, Canon already has the "blueprint" of their competitor's design. They just need to follow it and twist a bit to make it Canon-like.

Exactly, it's always as easy as that. ;-)

 

[rhino123]

As per design, if the rumor is true, Canon already has the "blueprint" of their competitor's design. They just need to follow it and twist a bit to make it Canon-like.

Not as simple as that bro. First off... there is the patent issue, every company would have some or alot of patent on their design, so by following those design (although with certain twists and tweating) it will still be infringement of patentship.) Canon would not want that to happen.

Secondly, it really is not that easy, even with the blueprint, hardware and casing design would defer hugely, plus different component usuage, firmware etc would make the entire thing a totally new design which Canon would have to do from scratch.

Thirdly, from what we can see of current Canon products - G1X, G15 etc etc, contrast autofocus is still not Canon's strong point, one of the main complains (at least from what I have heard thus far) of 650D was that their liveview AF is not really excellent despite the much hailed hybrid sensor.

So Canon still has some way to go... but they did have the advantage of starting late in the race, because they could look at what their competitors had done, what is the good and what is the bad. follow the good and side step the bad.

 

[doodah]

Thirdly, from what we can see of current Canon products - G1X, G15 etc etc, contrast autofocus is still not Canon's strong point

Do not know about G1X but G15 AF is VERY, VERY, VERY FAST. In fact, the difference between its AF speed and that of EOS-M is spectacularly different to the extent it's almost hard to believe these come from the same company. My experience with G15 AF speed mirrors DPReview's review:

"Canon says the G15's AF is 53% faster than the (already quite snappy) G12 at wide-angle (CIPA-standard) and while we have no way of precisely measuring the differences we have tried both cameras side by side in varying conditions and can confirm that the G15 is noticeably quicker and one of the fastest focusing compact cameras we have tested."

 

[esoeij]

G1X AF speed same ballpark as the EOS-M n Fuji X100 to me.

 

[ageha]

Do not know about G1X but G15 AF is VERY, VERY, VERY FAST. In fact, the difference between its AF speed and that of EOS-M is spectacularly different to the extent it's almost hard to believe these come from the same company. My experience with G15 AF speed mirrors DPReview's review:

"Canon says the G15's AF is 53% faster than the (already quite snappy) G12 at wide-angle (CIPA-standard) and while we have no way of precisely measuring the differences we have tried both cameras side by side in varying conditions and can confirm that the G15 is noticeably quicker and one of the fastest focusing compact cameras we have tested."

The G15 has a much smaller sensor, less shallow DoF and therefore faster AF. That doesn't translate to a larger sensor at all.

 

[rhino123]

The G15 has a much smaller sensor, less shallow DoF and therefore faster AF. That doesn't translate to a larger sensor at all.

Yes. Tat is so true. Although I admit that I haven't had the chance to test the G15 up yet, but from an review found in Amazon, the G15 AF speed is still cannot match the likes of LX7, which is released at almost the same time... and also not as fast as compared to RX100 which had a much bigger sensor when compared to G15.

Finally... I think it is my fault to bring this thing up causing the derail from the main topic. Let us go back. What I meant is that Canon still had some way to go with their contrast AF... something that was reflected even in the 650D which was a recent release and shared the same hybrid sensor as EOS-M.

 

[ballan]

News from Magic lantern,
ML is working to develop firmware for EOS-M, may be their firmware can solve slow focus issue

MagicLantern.fm - EOS-M says Hello World, Magic Lantern will run

 

[sushibabe]

Hi all,

I've tried using the Samyang 8mm Fisheye lens on the EOS M but it just won't take any shots.

Anyone can help?

 

[ageha]

News from Magic lantern,
ML is working to develop firmware for EOS-M, may be their firmware can solve slow focus issue

MagicLantern.fm - EOS-M says Hello World, Magic Lantern will run

Certainly not. ML doesn't replace the firmware.

 

[esoeij]

Hi all,

I've tried using the Samyang 8mm Fisheye lens on the EOS M but it just won't take any shots.

Anyone can help?

My guess is you have to enable the option to release the shutter without lens attached.

 

[doodah]

Although I admit that I haven't had the chance to test the G15 up yet, but from an review found in Amazon, the G15 AF speed is still cannot match the likes of LX7, which is released at almost the same time... and also not as fast as compared to RX100 which had a much bigger sensor when compared to G15.

Review in Amazon? You mean like fanboy talk?

 

[rhino123]

Review in Amazon? You mean like fanboy talk?

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. Anyway I find the reviewer (S.Vogt) that rated the speed of G15 pretty consistence and tends to trust his review... Until I get my hand on one working unit, then I can fully says whether he bullshits or what.

plus, by just stating that LX7 and RX100 is faster doesn't make the reviewer a fanboy of whatever brand. He might be stating the truth... it was like saying something is excellent and another just come in and wave off that statement as fanboy talks.

 

[eleveninth]

My guess is you have to enable the option to release the shutter without lens attached.

yup most probably this.

 

[Berkins]

Just sic

Changi airport terminal 2 electronic store selling adapter for sgd167.

 

[huatman]

Just bought the EOS M Kit1 today at Click! (Funan). Went some shop don't have demo set for me to test, click offer to let me test without me asking. Now there another shop over in Funan when wanted to buy Camera gear. Pricing best to check with them rather then look at the display price.

When testing on the demo set (18-55 kit lens). Focusing speed isn't very fast, but not as slow as I expected. Using single focusing point is much faster. Feel the face tracking the slowest.

There a online warranty promo (till today 2 Dec), can get a $100 voucher or a EF adapter+battery pack (of cos will choose this)

 

[lightsabre]

The AF speed of EOS-M could be complicated and the complication may lie with the sensor technology. The speed of the sensor readout affects the CDAF speed. Look at this article on the GH2 when Panasonic achieved a huge improvement in the AF speed.

"This sensor is capable of much greater readout speed (120Hz) than its predecessor, bringing a host of benefits. ... The faster readout also means the AF system can more frequently check the accuracy of its focus, which promises faster autofocus (on lenses that can respond quickly enough)."

I remember those days when Olympus released numerous firmware updates for EP1 to speed up the AF but did not really achieve the same speed as Panasonic until they updated the hardware. They also updated the lens motor as well to achieve that.

My guess is that EOS-M will get a speed boost in the next firmware update but may not reach the same level as the other mirrorless until the next hardware upgrade.

Canon's mirrorless strategy seems to be along the line of merging technologies between the Rebel range and the mirrorless. This is apparent in the 650D and EOS M which shares almost everything from sensor to screen technologies.

My feel is that they are not trying to catch up with the others on the CDAF speed but develop a hybrid sensor that can do PDAF well on mirrorless. This is also probably the reason they seem to stagnate in that 18mpx sensor. In truth, their focus is mainly in the hybrid sensor technology which could potentially allow EF/EF-S lens to do AF on the mirrorless. The motors on traditional lenses optimized for PDAF (with large, fewer movements) are very poor at CDAF (which requires lots of minute movements) no matter how fast the body is.

Their recent patents seem to show this.

here
here and
here

 

[doodah]

I remember those days when Olympus released numerous firmware updates for EP1 to speed up the AF but did not really achieve the same speed as Panasonic until they updated the hardware. They also updated the lens motor as well to achieve that.

The motors on traditional lenses optimized for PDAF (with large, fewer movements) are very poor at CDAF (which requires lots of minute movements) no matter how fast the body is.

Their recent patents seem to show this.
here
here and
here

Thanks for sharing this.

While I expected traditional lenses that used USM motors to AF slower on the EOS-M, I did not think I would see the same from the 22 f/2 lens. If Canon had introduced better lens motors, better AF phase sensors and better firmware so that the EOS-M + 22 f/2 lens combo could AF as fast as the OM-D, I would not have bought the latter. Too bad for Canon.

 

[Halfmoon]

EOS-M With Viewfinder Coming Late 2013? [CR]

The Next EOS-M
If you were hoping for a quick update to the EOS-M, apparently we won’t be able to buy one until the second half of 2013. The next model will indeed have an electronic viewfinder, something Canon omitted from the current EOS-M apparently because their EVF technology was not ready for prime time. It’s also mentioned that a viewfinder on the next EOS-M will not be a hybrid ovf/evf like some of the competition.

Looking for a retro EOS-M? Not happening according to the story, the design of the next EOS-M will be in the same style as the current model.

I’ve been told that the announcement will come in late Q1, early Q2 in 2013. A lot can change between now and then though.

Source [CW]

image from DPR forum mockup

cr

 

[Halfmoon]

Hope to see if the New EOS-M AF will be faster.... I think the AF speed was a lot of deal breaker for many........