**Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

[leejay]

I have been here for a total of 5 months, during this time I have worked with over 60 photographers and am sad to say that only a handful of them have been “professional”, when I say professional I mean by their working ethics and not the quality of the pictures. Being a photographer is all about passion, it is a form of art and with this comes future works that blow minds.

I came here to visit the home I grew up in, having lived here for 21 years, I realised why I had moved away in the first place. People here always complain that the world does not give them a chance to show their works, that Malaysians are ‘left behind’ in a world, which is moving forward. Now I can see why this is.

I’m writing this so that the flakes (adjective: a flaky person; foolish, silly, frivolous, flighty, spacey.) out there will understand what they are doing to the professionals in the industry.

When a professional Art Nude model like myself comes to Malaysia you would think that they will be overjoyed at the chance to further themselves/skills/portfolio so that they may have a chance to be professional in the art of photography and move overseas, but yet that is not the outcome. Instead I have received mostly flaky bookings, cancellations and constant bargaining of my rates (sometimes asking for a down price of RM50 per hour) like as if I am a piece of meet on sale at a flee market. For this I am gravely disappointed.

Put it this way, if you want quality then you have to pay for quality and my rates of RM350 per hour are below the average price. If anyone would have taken the time to look up online then they would have seen that I’m undercharging for my work, and I know I am good at what I do.

This is why models from overseas don’t come here, they don’t see the point of being underpaid for their talent whether it is nude or not, the industry here does not respect the worldwide market nor does it take care of its models.

What makes it worse is those who are not even half way to the professional level in their works have the cheek to think they are so good that Id do free shoots with them, and when I turn them down they then say I am not good at what I do anyway. What right does anyone have to say that to a model, especially one who has worked with world renown published photographers? If I was not good at my works then well known photogs would have not asked me to work with them on a regular basis.

I get irritated with the things that come out of photographers mouths, i.e., “I am a hobbyist so could u give me half price” (I work with hobbyists in US and they are very very good at what they do, it doesn’t make a difference to me) or “I think your works are not that good, I can do better for a TFCD” (and their works are well below my view of good) or “I will give you the same rate if you will let me have sex with you while I take your picture”…. It disgusts me on levels, which I can’t even begin to explain. Flirting and dirty talk is more common in this country then any other one I have visited.

You may think that I get this because I’m a nude model in an Asian country but then why don’t I get it in other counties in Asia?

Its simple, this happens because the photographers are not exposed to the worldwide market (taking into consideration the fact that the law does not help as it is a Muslim country), they do not wish to move forward, they stay in their comfort zone when all they have to do is go to Spore to find good models and pay to get good talents. But no, they wont bother because they don’t have the passion enough to spend out to get quality, instead they rather use a first timer model that is scared of showing their body and pictures don’t turn out good just because they wish to save a few bucks.

I have stressed my concerns to all the photographers I have worked with here and they all do agree that Malaysian’s have to somehow buck up or there will be no recognitios for their works in the worldwide market. The world spins and doesn’t wait for you, it will leave you behind. The unprofessional photographers are killing what chance the professionals have to succeed and move overseas to become well known.

I do know that I will get many who will defend against what I am saying here and chances are they will hate me for it because the truth does get to people but I am only writing this in what spare time I have to make Malaysians realise what they are doing to their reputation.

I think overall I have had some great experiences, especially with the crew from Picture Elements, Sun from Penang and Ted Adnan’s groups, many should learn from them, as they are what I call up to par and prosessional in all sense of the word. They will go far as they are humble, kind, fun, and put all passion in to what they wish the result to be. I have great respect for those who are professional but to those and only those who are flaky with cancellations, flirtatiousness, with bargain and take for grated an opportunity of a lifetime I have no respect for.

I do hope and pray that whomever reads this will take it and use it to better themselves, I am not putting down those who are good at what they do, I have no intentions to do so. I am only stressing the fact that the photography society in Malaysia has to change.

At the end of the day we all have to better ourselves to achieve our dreams and just because you may have the best pictures doesn’t mean you are good because professionalism is all about ATTITUDE & RESPECT as well.

Thank you for reading my long post, take care and good luck in your future works ☺

Relax dearie, I'm sure you can make it! It's real pleasure to work with you. Thanks for giving me half of your chicken rice that time. Best wishes!

 

[Big Kahuna]

So sorry to hear that....unfortunately that's the reality in our market :sweat:

One close example...my bro is a freelancer and work with his team in production....they depend a lot on contacts in a relatively small market to get business.....unfortunately due to their small outfit and relatively low profile...they tends to gets 2nd or 3rd liner job....but also because of that....those celebrities wannabe actually lining up in engaging them to do MTVs....张栋梁, 梁静如 etcs....you name it...they done it.....but all these were long before they shoot to fame....and mind you....these talents also bargain and press hard for the charges because of budget constraint....so it's a chicken and eggs thing.....however when they are famous now.....all their job will be handled by some bigger studio which charges so much more....and yet they never bulge.....all because they are able to recoup easily from consumer.....IMHO...the quality of videos are actually about the same :dunno:

 

[Deadpoet]

You dont know what i'm working as, you are dealing with RM350 , I am dealing with 5 digits deal. I have worked with all kind of skins ; yellow, white, brown, black....

I am dealing in IT services. You are dealing with modeling services. My point is :

buying an item and buying a service is the same !!!! It is a deal ! When money is concern, people will ask for cheaper price. They dont give a damn if you are an artist or you are a professional, if you dont agree on the term, then the deal is broken, you customer will source for another option.

Period.

ps: need not reply.

I did not want to get involved in this but you are just riped to be slammed.

Tara was only correct to a point after your first post. However, after your 2nd post, which I quoted, your tail is show in it's full glory. Your original post was meant to be disrespectful, and you further confirmed it with your second post.

Btw, dealing in 5 figures, does that makes you feel you are very important? To many, 5 figures is pocket change. Don't look down on others becasue you charge a bit more. Very bad form.

I have some very choiced words for you, but then, if I utter them, I will become you ...

 

[Tarachin8]

I did not want to get involved in this but you are just riped to be slammed.

Tara was only correct to a point after your first post. However, after your 2nd post, which I quoted, your tail is show in it's full glory. Your original post was meant to be disrespectful, and you further confirmed it with your second post.

Btw, dealing in 5 figures, does that makes you feel you are very important? To many, 5 figures is pocket change. Don't look down on others becasue you charge a bit more. Very bad form.

I have some very choiced words for you, but then, if I utter them, I will become you ...

Well said dear, thank you

 

[JamesW]

You dont know what i'm working as, you are dealing with RM350 , I am dealing with 5 digits deal. I have worked with all kind of skins ; yellow, white, brown, black....

I am dealing in IT services. You are dealing with modeling services. My point is :


buying an item and buying a service is the same !!!! It is a deal ! When money is concern, people will ask for cheaper price. They dont give a damn if you are an artist or you are a professional, if you dont agree on the term, then the deal is broken, you customer will source for another option.

Period.

ps: need not reply.

I've been to some countries and what you said is certainly not true. It is ridiculous to suggest that a service is solely valued based on the pricing.

Dealing with 5 digit figures does not necessarily make you an expert. I have friends and relatives who have big businesses and I can most certainly assure you that their success would definitely conflict with your beliefs.

 

[maddyks]

You dont know what i'm working as, you are dealing with RM350 , I am dealing with 5 digits deal. I have worked with all kind of skins ; yellow, white, brown, black....

I am dealing in IT services. You are dealing with modeling services. My point is :


buying an item and buying a service is the same !!!! It is a deal ! When money is concern, people will ask for cheaper price. They dont give a damn if you are an artist or you are a professional, if you dont agree on the term, then the deal is broken, you customer will source for another option.

Period.

ps: need not reply.

Err a Senior Member trolling? Doesn't look nice leh :sweat:

Anyway with regards to an artist, I am quite sure that bargaining is only done with smaller artists. If she was a Naomi Campbell or a Cindy Crawford (don't take me wrongly dear, you'll get there someday), then the photographers won't be bargaining right. So, I do not think that it is in any way a common thing. It is hypocrisy.

As for the propositioning, it is very unprofessional. She is doing her job, the photographer should do his. Just because he/she paid her to model doesn't mean he/she owns her time for doing whatever he/she wants.

@Tarachin: Don't worry about the bad apples you have come across. I am quite sure you have many good experiences as well. Share those too.

 

[Leong23]

You dont know what i'm working as, you are dealing with RM350 , I am dealing with 5 digits deal. I have worked with all kind of skins ; yellow, white, brown, black....

I am dealing in IT services. You are dealing with modeling services. My point is :


buying an item and buying a service is the same !!!! It is a deal ! When money is concern, people will ask for cheaper price. They dont give a damn if you are an artist or you are a professional, if you dont agree on the term, then the deal is broken, you customer will source for another option.

Period.

ps: need not reply.

Wah liao, 5 digits only.

All my project are 7-8 digits (Sing Dollars), and i have some influence in who will get the project. I never asked for a lower price, but who can deliver my project on time.

Now the world is surfing on Blue Ocean and you are still swimming in the Red Sea. :bsmilie:

 

[Sion]

Wah liao, 5 digits only.

All my project are 7-8 digits (Sing Dollars), and i have some influence in who will get the project. I never asked for a lower price, but who can deliver my project on time.

Now the world is surfing on Blue Ocean and you are still swimming in the Red Sea. :bsmilie:

Wah! 7-8 Digits got also include those digits behind "." or not? :bsmilie:

 

[agentmonkey]

how does the mentioning of the number of digits in this thread help the TS in anyway than to boost your own ego? why are people in this thread even mentioning it...advice/rebuttal can be given in more tactful, less "i'm holier than thou" methods, no?

 

[canturn]

buying an item and buying a service is the same !!!! It is a deal ! When money is concern, people will ask for cheaper price. They dont give a damn if you are an artist or you are a professional, if you dont agree on the term, then the deal is broken, you customer will source for another option.

Period.

ps: need not reply.

I can't help but to comment on this. There's a difference between people who are affluent but spend their entire lives bargaining and treat everything like pasar malam; and there are those who not only have the money to spend, but the power to spend.

You just can't treat Art as some pasar malam or fish market thingy.

I'm a full time wedding photographer and there are many things that I don't compromise and one of which is, I never let clients bargain with me. Price is fixed, take it or leave it, or go find someone else who is willing to go lower/ compromise because you'll end up killing yourselves and others. Having just read today's Straits Times about $2.80 hair cut, in the midst of all the rental hike, something is very wrong somewhere.

Over the past 8 months since my fees were raised quite significantly by about almost 80%, I haven't encountered clients who haggles (they already know my fees prior to the meeting and wouldn't even reply or call me after they get my rates card).

End of the day, everyone has own way of doing business and one of things I love about my job is that people dont' bargain because they respect my work and treat me as a professional. One of my couple just said this last week, it's an insult to both themselves and me if they ever bargain. Don't you love to have more of such clients?

To the TS, stand by your own principles, and if you know that you have something to offer to be able to command a certain price, stick to it because I'm sure you respect your work enough to even make this post. Good luck!

 

[Leong23]

Wah! 7-8 Digits got also include those digits behind "." or not? :bsmilie:

I just bought my lunch for S$3.5000000. and l choose which store to buy. :bsmilie:

 

[Sion]

I just bought my lunch for S$3.5000000. and l choose which store to buy. :bsmilie:

So you also pay your model in 8 digits? :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

 

[night86mare]

Wah! 7-8 Digits got also include those digits behind "." or not? :bsmilie:

i frequently travel to indonesia to make sure that i can tell people about my digits. :bsmilie:

 

[Sion]

i frequently travel to indonesia to make sure that i can tell people about my digits. :bsmilie:

One of these days a nice sweet Indon model is going to fall for "your digits". :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

 

[night86mare]

One of these days a nice sweet Indon model is going to fall for "your digits". :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

i think most nice sweet indon models have more digits than me

 

[Will03]

I can't help but to comment on this. There's a difference between people who are affluent but spend their entire lives bargaining and treat everything like pasar malam; and there are those who not only have the money to spend, but the power to spend.

You just can't treat Art as some pasar malam or fish market thingy.

I'm a full time wedding photographer and there are many things that I don't compromise and one of which is, I never let clients bargain with me. Price is fixed, take it or leave it, or go find someone else who is willing to go lower/ compromise because you'll end up killing yourselves and others. Having just read today's Straits Times about $2.80 hair cut, in the midst of all the rental hike, something is very wrong somewhere.

Over the past 8 months since my fees were raised quite significantly by about almost 80%, I haven't encountered clients who haggles (they already know my fees prior to the meeting and wouldn't even reply or call me after they get my rates card).

End of the day, everyone has own way of doing business and one of things I love about my job is that people dont' bargain because they respect my work and treat me as a professional. One of my couple just said this last week, it's an insult to both themselves and me if they ever bargain. Don't you love to have more of such clients?

To the TS, stand by your own principles, and if you know that you have something to offer to be able to command a certain price, stick to it because I'm sure you respect your work enough to even make this post. Good luck!

ooooooo........ i love the 'insut statement thingy' hahaa...........

 

[ricohflex]

there are flaky photogs in all countries.