Decreasing Exp Comp forLower ISO, Any Drawbacks?

[Mustank]

the real pros has spoken
just wondering if there was another fill light from below or reflector below? (from what I understand, butterfly lighting need light from above and fill from below?)


As Ed and Unagidon has said the image is a bit flat. Can still boost the contrast in post-processing.

Just illustrating, let me know to remove the image if needed:

In DPP, from the Tool Palette under 'RGB' tab, I moved the ends of the curve to match the tone curve, then created a 'S' curve. Should also be achievable under 'RAW' tab if you're working on the RAW file.

Happy shooting and experimenting with lights!

I am so glad that i took the step to post my picture.....i will do the light box thing.....i think if the light box is big enough, the light in the boy's eyes will also be bigger.....not so small.....

 

[Mustank]

the lighting looks a little flat ..... I looked at your image in PS and the profile in Levels and seems to have some excesses on both ends ....a little adjustment should do it

just MHO

Thanks for telling me....appreciate it!

 

[daredevil123]

Whoa!!! you are spot on!!! I was justing ramming up the flash power and blasting them to the ceiling. i read Neil VN's website but i couldnt figure out the directional light thing. I guess a softbox will help me out. errr......sorry to ask......got any recomendations for a foldable softbox? i don want to fo umbrella route because too many things to carry. if a foldable box, no prob

Actually umbrealla is a lot easier to carry around than a softbox. And umbrellas are cheaper too.

Anyway, you can find umbrella setups and softboxes in mass sales section and most camera shops that sells accessories.

For softboxes, there are many sizes, but most people start with the 60cmx60cm softbox kit.

Here is a good video on budget off camera flash kit:
[video=youtube;-LE2KR5veEU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LE2KR5veEU[/video]

 

[avsquare]

Actually umbrealla is a lot easier to carry around than a softbox. And umbrellas are cheaper too.

Anyway, you can find umbrella setups and softboxes in mass sales section and most camera shops that sells accessories.

For softboxes, there are many sizes, but most people start with the 60cmx60cm softbox kit.

Here is a good video on budget off camera flash kit:
[video=youtube;-LE2KR5veEU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LE2KR5veEU[/video]

agreed that umbrella is better off for outdoor use for portability.

with regards to the budget kit.. I've personally tried 2x budget kit - 1x light stand 1x holder 1x umbrella for $50 before..

personal experience is - again, cheap things no good; good things to cheap. The light stand is about the same as shown in daredevil bro's video. The weakness is that the legs doesn't spread out enough to lower the center of gravity compared to the height, and it's really lightweight. When you have an umbrella and flash on top, it's going to "eat" alot of wind and it is very very very prone to fall. If you are operating the shoot yourself without any helpers, you'd probably want a weight to hold the stand.

Also, the $10 umbrella is very susceptible to damages. The metal support breaks easily. You just need one crash from the wind blowing, and your umbrella is gone as the metal supports all go out of shape from the weight of your flash and break.

Of course, better build stands comes at a cost.. up to the user to decide.

 

[Mustank]

Dear Daredevil, thanks alot! I went online to read more. I decided to dump the softbox idea in place for the silver beaded reflective umbrella. I now know why you suggested shoot in manual. I tried that video guy idea to put manual then try the settings for ambient light until complete darkness. Then use flash. great stuff. i use one flash to light the subject, the other main gun to light the behind curtain and the other sub gun for hair light.

 

[Mustank]

Dear avsquare, actually I will only need the umbrella and the holder. I already got 2 cheapo tripods which I am not using...

 

[Unagidon]

Dear Daredevil, thanks alot! I went online to read more. I decided to dump the softbox idea in place for the silver beaded reflective umbrella. I now know why you suggested shoot in manual. I tried that video guy idea to put manual then try the settings for ambient light until complete darkness. Then use flash. great stuff. i use one flash to light the subject, the other main gun to light the behind curtain and the other sub gun for hair light.

If you are looking for cheap trigger, look for pt-04 trigger which cost $10+ per trigger and $10+ per remote in ebay. If you want it fast, go artworkfoto or tago tech from mass sale. Light stand get it from either artworkfoto or sgcamera their quality is better than tago tech. Soft box try asking monster camera they are bringing pixco (from china i think) they got one that folds like an umbrella but still difficult to set up.

Difference between the cheap set up to pro set up is that most pro strobe they got a modelling light which able you to position your strobe easier , has a better power control, faster refresh rate. If you can live without it go and get the cheap setup.

cheap and good, not easy to use
Good and easy, to use not cheap
Cheap and easy to use, expensive

 

[Unagidon]

Dear avsquare, actually I will only need the umbrella and the holder. I already got 2 cheapo tripods which I am not using...

For your info Tripod average usable height is 0.8m to 1.8m high
Light stand can go up to 2.5m high which is a height use for most lighting set up

 

[daredevil123]

agreed that umbrella is better off for outdoor use for portability.

with regards to the budget kit.. I've personally tried 2x budget kit - 1x light stand 1x holder 1x umbrella for $50 before..

personal experience is - again, cheap things no good; good things to cheap. The light stand is about the same as shown in daredevil bro's video. The weakness is that the legs doesn't spread out enough to lower the center of gravity compared to the height, and it's really lightweight. When you have an umbrella and flash on top, it's going to "eat" alot of wind and it is very very very prone to fall. If you are operating the shoot yourself without any helpers, you'd probably want a weight to hold the stand.

Also, the $10 umbrella is very susceptible to damages. The metal support breaks easily. You just need one crash from the wind blowing, and your umbrella is gone as the metal supports all go out of shape from the weight of your flash and break.

Of course, better build stands comes at a cost.. up to the user to decide.

There is always a better and more expensive lightstand. You can also get those with ground pins that you stake into the ground. BTW, I have used heavy duty lightstands before too, the big ones that go up to 3m. Even those will topple with umbrella in the wind. In the end, you still need to weigh your setup down with sandbags, or have an assistant hold it.

But for the beginner, a cheaper lightstand will work. Just buy a couple of cheap sandbags (or make your own) and weight them down at the bottom. bricks will work too! If wind is too strong, keep the umbrellas, and shoot bare flash, spread the angle of the light as much as possible using the diffuser panel of the flash, and set flash head zoom to the widest angle.

As for umbrellas, I use the cheapest available. The spokes will bend when the lightstand topple, but which umbrella wouldn't? And for the prices I paid for my umbrellas, I don't really care that much... I have a couple umbrellas that got damaged during topples, but I sort of bend them back and I am still using them till this day... and my umbrellas cost less than $8 a piece.

 

[Mustank]

Dear Unagidon, thanks alot! my friend got tell me about those remotes from yongnuo but he told me they sync at 1/60. i need 1/200 at least so i am using the onboard flash to trigger off the 2 slaves at 1/200 to 1/250. trouble is need line of sight. there is no way i can afford the new canon radio trigger and flash gun.....i just got to make do with what i have.....

i put the internal flash on 1st curtain (so as to not anyhow triggering the slaves), and -2 flash exp comp (so as to not interfere with the picture, save batt)

yesterday, i learnt something new from the video guy in Daredevil's post. put manual (F4, 1/250, 100iso), picture must be dark dark. then turn on the flash. whoa!! good stuff!!!

 

[Mustank]

Dear Daredevil, i was experimenting the manual put dark dark method, then turn on flash. i realised that the nearer the flash to the subject, the more contrast and shadow. donno whether still need the umbrella or not......

 

[Unagidon]

Dear Unagidon, thanks alot! my friend got tell me about those remotes from yongnuo but he told me they sync at 1/60. i need 1/200 at least so i am using the onboard flash to trigger off the 2 slaves at 1/200 to 1/250. trouble is need line of sight. there is no way i can afford the new canon radio trigger and flash gun.....i just got to make do with what i have.....

i put the internal flash on 1st curtain (so as to not anyhow triggering the slaves), and -2 flash exp comp (so as to not interfere with the picture, save batt)

yesterday, i learnt something new from the video guy in Daredevil's post. put manual (F4, 1/250, 100iso), picture must be dark dark. then turn on the flash. whoa!! good stuff!!!

Oh not sure about the issue your friend has I been using this a lot myself, so far no problem at 1/200 (olympus e520 flash sync speed). If it go above that you will see a curtain shadow in your image (most slr uses curtain shutter if you has a leaf shutter it can sync at high speed like 1/500) . Own 4 of these bought 1 from artwork 1 from tago and 2 from ebay. I know some camera sync speed is 1/60 to 1/80 (eg mamiya pro tl) but most new digital flash sync is around 1/200 to 1/250 and comes with higher sync speed if u use original speed light by using compensating speed or flickering the strobe.

If you still has doubt go test it once ur self at the store.

 

[daredevil123]

Dear Unagidon, thanks alot! my friend got tell me about those remotes from yongnuo but he told me they sync at 1/60. i need 1/200 at least so i am using the onboard flash to trigger off the 2 slaves at 1/200 to 1/250. trouble is need line of sight. there is no way i can afford the new canon radio trigger and flash gun.....i just got to make do with what i have.....

i put the internal flash on 1st curtain (so as to not anyhow triggering the slaves), and -2 flash exp comp (so as to not interfere with the picture, save batt)

yesterday, i learnt something new from the video guy in Daredevil's post. put manual (F4, 1/250, 100iso), picture must be dark dark. then turn on the flash. whoa!! good stuff!!!

Dear Daredevil, i was experimenting the manual put dark dark method, then turn on flash. i realised that the nearer the flash to the subject, the more contrast and shadow. donno whether still need the umbrella or not......

All triggers can sync at 1/200 or slower. The problem starts when you want to sync faster than 1/250. The limitation is not at the trigger end, but your camera end. For DSLRs, 1/200 and slower will be a safe bet. If you are going to buy triggers for manual flashes, i suggest you go for at least the Yongnuo RF-603, Phottix Strato or Godox Reemix. They are worth the little extra money you pay for them. PT-04s are ok and cheap, but they are not as reliable at times and range is a lot shorter. As for speedlites, get the Yongnuo 560EX verII... those are hella powerful and are quite cheap at $110 a piece brand new.

As for using direct flash or umbrella, if you want harsh light, you use direct flash. If you want to diffuse the light, use umbrella or softboxes.

Light modifiers
[video=youtube;8Ln_oMxm8xQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ln_oMxm8xQ[/video]

 

[daredevil123]

Dear Daredevil, i was experimenting the manual put dark dark method, then turn on flash. i realised that the nearer the flash to the subject, the more contrast and shadow. donno whether still need the umbrella or not......

Also, just to make it clear, the closer the light is to your subject, the stronger the light will be. Everytime you half the distance of the light to the subject, the intensity of the light increases 4 times. So what you are seeing is more intensity.

But the closer a light source is to the subject, the SOFTER the light will be also. I know you are confused by this statement. For something like a bare flash, you probably cannot see the difference much. You see more contrast, because the light is stronger only. But if you put on an umbrella and move closer, you can see the light gets stronger (because it is closer) but it gets more diffused. Why? This is because, the light source is now bigger in relation to the subject, it is able to wrap around the subject more now.

So assuming you have a flash shooting off an umbrella at a subject. Then move the light stand and half the distance between the light and the subject, the light on the subject now is 4 times stronger... so you lower the light by 2 stops, so the intensity of the light on the subject is now the same intensity... you will see the light will be a lot more diffused.

 

[Unagidon]

All triggers can sync at 1/200 or slower. The problem starts when you want to sync faster than 1/250. The limitation is not at the trigger end, but your camera end. For DSLRs, 1/200 and slower will be a safe bet. If you are going to buy triggers for manual flashes, i suggest you go for at least the Yongnuo RF-603, Phottix Strato or Godox Reemix. They are worth the little extra money you pay for them. PT-04s are ok and cheap, but they are not as reliable at times and range is a lot shorter. As for speedlites, get the Yongnuo 560EX verII... those are hella powerful and are quite cheap at $110 a piece brand new.

As for using direct flash or umbrella, if you want harsh light, you use direct flash. If you want to diffuse the light, use umbrella or softboxes.

Light modifiers
YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgq_AReemN4

I prefer vivitar hv 285 for off flash shooting as they don't sleep at the middle of the shoot and very powerful (drain battery though)

 

[daredevil123]

I prefer vivitar hv 285 for off flash shooting as they don't sleep at the middle of the shoot and very powerful (drain battery though)

problem with the hv285 is that power adjustment is in full stops. not a big problem.. but sometimes can get irritating.

 

[avsquare]

There is always a better and more expensive lightstand. You can also get those with ground pins that you stake into the ground. BTW, I have used heavy duty lightstands before too, the big ones that go up to 3m. Even those will topple with umbrella in the wind. In the end, you still need to weigh your setup down with sandbags, or have an assistant hold it.

But for the beginner, a cheaper lightstand will work. Just buy a couple of cheap sandbags (or make your own) and weight them down at the bottom. bricks will work too! If wind is too strong, keep the umbrellas, and shoot bare flash, spread the angle of the light as much as possible using the diffuser panel of the flash, and set flash head zoom to the widest angle.

As for umbrellas, I use the cheapest available. The spokes will bend when the lightstand topple, but which umbrella wouldn't? And for the prices I paid for my umbrellas, I don't really care that much... I have a couple umbrellas that got damaged during topples, but I sort of bend them back and I am still using them till this day... and my umbrellas cost less than $8 a piece.

Yup there's always better made ones in which I've tend to trust. Not due to fear of damaging the stands easily, but the flash itself. I've seen several people had their flash a bad crash and the flash broke which is a big ouch..

I've been using Phottix series light stand and umbrella. Yes they do fall without ground pins/bricks/sandbags but they don't fall that often, and the umbrella was sturdy enough to keep it's shape and protect the flash unit itself. The Phottix umbrella is well built and doesn't go off shape when crashed, I guess it's worth the 30 over bucks which I paid for it to protect the flash unit itself.

Personally I would prefer ground pins than bricks/sandbags.. cos bricks and sandbags defeats the purpose of an umbrella over softbox setup on the portability department.

 

[daredevil123]

Yup there's always better made ones in which I've tend to trust. Not due to fear of damaging the stands easily, but the flash itself. I've seen several people had their flash a bad crash and the flash broke which is a big ouch..

I've been using Phottix series light stand and umbrella. Yes they do fall without ground pins/bricks/sandbags but they don't fall that often, and the umbrella was sturdy enough to keep it's shape and protect the flash unit itself. The Phottix umbrella is well built and doesn't go off shape when crashed, I guess it's worth the 30 over bucks which I paid for it to protect the flash unit itself.

Personally I would prefer ground pins than bricks/sandbags.. cos bricks and sandbags defeats the purpose of an umbrella over softbox setup on the portability department.

hmmm. phottix light stands are OEM by china factories as well.. .same for their umbrellas...

well, my 8 dollar umbrellas held up fine too... and so did my 12 dollar light stands.

 

[Unagidon]

problem with the hv285 is that power adjustment is in full stops. not a big problem.. but sometimes can get irritating.

Yeap agree but sleep irritate me more

 

[daredevil123]

Yeap agree but sleep irritate me more

If you turn off power saving idle sleep, the unit only auto turn off after 30 mins....