D800 ---- Not Recommended by Thom
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sachien said:
Oops in my mind, you drawn a 3 dark circle point on white paper and paste on the wall.
Follow by put the camera on tripod and manual adjust the left & right AF point for timer capture and done. With zoom in and see the AF will be OOF or not..
That is the simple way for testing AF issue
Thom Hogan more optimistic now .... 
July 26 - Update about New D800 Bodies
Thom Hogan's Nikon Camera, DSLR, Lens, Flash, and Book site
July 26 - Update about New D800 Bodies
Thom Hogan's Nikon Camera, DSLR, Lens, Flash, and Book site
Thom Hogan more optimistic now ....
July 26 - Update about New D800 Bodies
Thom Hogan's Nikon Camera, DSLR, Lens, Flash, and Book site
This is a good sign from Nikon. Hopefully things will get better for the D800/e users
If you read his article, he is not saying D800/e is not a good camera. He himself does not have any problems with his. He just said he has good data that a lot people are affected by it. Of course there is work around but it is still a defective by any standards and with Nikon keeping quiet on the whole issue. How do we then trust Nikon? It is like you look below your D800/e and it says Made In China. What is the typical perception of products made in China?
My shooting style I most likely won't detect it or be affected by it and I will buy a D800 or D800E but not a second hand one without warranty. The perception of Nikon having good QC certainly takes a hit and anyone who ask me for recommendations, I will just tell like it is because Nikon is keeping quiet and there are a lot of noise all over the internet and even IF it is not true, with so many people talking about it, it will seem true. Anyway there are a lot of evidence out there that quite a number are affected. Not asking you to change system, just saying that Nikon's definition of quality doesn't seem to what it used to be. That number who are affected can be like 1% but with Nikon keeping quiet, my perception of the reports I read seemed like 80% or higher that is why I waited and still am waiting to order my D800/e.
My shooting style I most likely won't detect it or be affected by it and I will buy a D800 or D800E but not a second hand one without warranty. The perception of Nikon having good QC certainly takes a hit and anyone who ask me for recommendations, I will just tell like it is because Nikon is keeping quiet and there are a lot of noise all over the internet and even IF it is not true, with so many people talking about it, it will seem true. Anyway there are a lot of evidence out there that quite a number are affected. Not asking you to change system, just saying that Nikon's definition of quality doesn't seem to what it used to be. That number who are affected can be like 1% but with Nikon keeping quiet, my perception of the reports I read seemed like 80% or higher that is why I waited and still am waiting to order my D800/e.
I am still buying, in fact just got the body on Friday, but yet to collect from my bro-in-law (in KL).
i am wanna finding the answer too. if not just pay for money loh, what can do... same as mine now..
Yet another one Anatomy Of A Nikon D800 Repair.
I am now believing that Nikon has serious quality control on their new products and very unreliable after sales support. Maybe Nikon in order to maximize profits or reduce operations cost has decided to cut cost and hence compromise on their QC. Maybe because they outsource too much components to other factories (like those in China) that now "Made In Japan" is no longer a trusted quality. This just confirms my suspicion that Nikon is no longer the same. Think from now onwards, I will wait at least one year for their products to see if it is bug free before buying them.
I am now believing that Nikon has serious quality control on their new products and very unreliable after sales support. Maybe Nikon in order to maximize profits or reduce operations cost has decided to cut cost and hence compromise on their QC. Maybe because they outsource too much components to other factories (like those in China) that now "Made In Japan" is no longer a trusted quality. This just confirms my suspicion that Nikon is no longer the same. Think from now onwards, I will wait at least one year for their products to see if it is bug free before buying them.
What Mansurov blog says in end is pasted below
Quote " My choice(s)? Getting rid of a defective product, not bothering to check the My Nikon website each day for reasonable answers that never come, skipping the robotic conversations full of empathy but no meaningful information, not risking an additional failed attempt by Nikons Service Center to fix my D800, not wasting my time taking photos of test charts, and using the camera I already have. The good news? My doctor also tells me that, with time, the phenomenon of seeing Siemens Stars everywhere will eventually subside. And if Nikon will reimburse me $73 for the scenic, but fruitless trip my D800 took to Melville, I suspect I will feel even better.
So once again, my D7000 is glad the D800 has left our home. And this time so am I." unquote
Does it means that for now stay away from D800 for now ?????
Quote " My choice(s)? Getting rid of a defective product, not bothering to check the My Nikon website each day for reasonable answers that never come, skipping the robotic conversations full of empathy but no meaningful information, not risking an additional failed attempt by Nikons Service Center to fix my D800, not wasting my time taking photos of test charts, and using the camera I already have. The good news? My doctor also tells me that, with time, the phenomenon of seeing Siemens Stars everywhere will eventually subside.
And if Nikon will reimburse me $73 for the scenic, but fruitless trip my D800 took to Melville, I suspect I will feel even better.So once again, my D7000 is glad the D800 has left our home. And this time so am I." unquote
Does it means that for now stay away from D800 for now ?????
The amount of FUD that the internet spreads is astounding. Here's some math.
Nikon makes 30,000 D800s a month as per published reports.
That means there are about 150,000 D800s out in the wild now.
I've been reading all popular forums and blogs for months now and at a stretch, I could find MAYBE 500 UNIQUE cases of the AF issue, which may or may not include false positives generated by user error.
Let's be EXTREMELY generous and say that this is only a tenth of the actual number of people who have an issue with the AF points.
This means there are 5,000 D800s out there that have an issue (And may or may not include user error).
That's 3.4% of the total production. Not 20 or 30, 3.4.
That's probably less than the return rates of the average electronic product at a chain like Best Buy.
Face it, every electronic product ever made has had sample variations and returns, even $80,000 PhaseOne IQ180s. But the manner in which some people act like all D800s are junk is just incredibly sad. I understand that a high profile product would have its most minor and obscure problems amplified by the internet, but it is still very sad.
In a way, it's good that the fence sitters are backing away because those who actually need the camera can buy it now without waiting a year.
Mine's working great, btw. I'd like to thank the fence sitter who backed away, whoever it may be.
Nikon makes 30,000 D800s a month as per published reports.
That means there are about 150,000 D800s out in the wild now.
I've been reading all popular forums and blogs for months now and at a stretch, I could find MAYBE 500 UNIQUE cases of the AF issue, which may or may not include false positives generated by user error.
Let's be EXTREMELY generous and say that this is only a tenth of the actual number of people who have an issue with the AF points.
This means there are 5,000 D800s out there that have an issue (And may or may not include user error).
That's 3.4% of the total production. Not 20 or 30, 3.4.
That's probably less than the return rates of the average electronic product at a chain like Best Buy.
Face it, every electronic product ever made has had sample variations and returns, even $80,000 PhaseOne IQ180s. But the manner in which some people act like all D800s are junk is just incredibly sad. I understand that a high profile product would have its most minor and obscure problems amplified by the internet, but it is still very sad.
In a way, it's good that the fence sitters are backing away because those who actually need the camera can buy it now without waiting a year.
Mine's working great, btw. I'd like to thank the fence sitter who backed away, whoever it may be.
You are missing what Thom and I have been saying. We want Nikon to come out and say something official to stop all these perception (or mis-perception). I mean seriously, what can you do to stop others from arriving at the same perception as myself? A person after reading the articles will most likely share it with another one and the cycle will just continue. How many percent will be like you go do investigative work which it itself is also not conclusive.
You mean a left focus point that back-focus by a lot is not a defective product?
Come on! I myself use center focus point most of the time.
But in events, there are situations I have to use auto-area auto-focus mode and let the camera select a focus point itself. What if it choose the affected left focus point? How will the image turn up? You mean in events, you can always retake? You can always ask your subject to pose and freeze all the time?
Nikon cameras at the moment are not Lytro Light Field Camera that can take first and focus later on software. A bad back focus, most of the time, cannot even fix by post processing.
You don't have a problem but you expect those affected to accept it? If it is one case or 2, and the probability isn't that high, will most people be concern at all? We are seeing more than 2 cases with consistent same problem and even your numbers justified that. How many is this percent, we don't know but the number is of some concern because I really do not know if I will be like you get a D800/e without defects.
There are a lot of other issues that I and others didn't bring up because they are of no great concern. Like green LCD (not an issue because it doesn't affect image and even if it does, can correct at post), oil on mirror (can clean), freeze with using certain SD card (already fixed with firmware upgrade), certain battery batch recalled (not an issue). Do you see a lot of people bring this up? But a bad back focusing left focus point is really bad.
And we are not just taking about manufacturing defects but also extremely poor after sales support. So Mr. Wiseguy, can you calculate what is the percentage of Nikon after sales not able to service a manufacturing defect? First it seemed like Nikon sells defective product and then they can't fix it and made it worse in some cases. How to trust Nikon as a brand anymore? Even if it is 5%. It means 1 out of 20 people who buys Nikon will get this problem. 1 out of 20 is quite high.
Seriously, my trust in Nikon have taken a beating and I really want Nikon to help bring it back up and exceed it (if possible). And what you are saying isn't helping.
You mean a left focus point that back-focus by a lot is not a defective product?
Come on! I myself use center focus point most of the time.
But in events, there are situations I have to use auto-area auto-focus mode and let the camera select a focus point itself. What if it choose the affected left focus point? How will the image turn up? You mean in events, you can always retake? You can always ask your subject to pose and freeze all the time?
Nikon cameras at the moment are not Lytro Light Field Camera that can take first and focus later on software. A bad back focus, most of the time, cannot even fix by post processing.
You don't have a problem but you expect those affected to accept it? If it is one case or 2, and the probability isn't that high, will most people be concern at all? We are seeing more than 2 cases with consistent same problem and even your numbers justified that. How many is this percent, we don't know but the number is of some concern because I really do not know if I will be like you get a D800/e without defects.
There are a lot of other issues that I and others didn't bring up because they are of no great concern. Like green LCD (not an issue because it doesn't affect image and even if it does, can correct at post), oil on mirror (can clean), freeze with using certain SD card (already fixed with firmware upgrade), certain battery batch recalled (not an issue). Do you see a lot of people bring this up? But a bad back focusing left focus point is really bad.
And we are not just taking about manufacturing defects but also extremely poor after sales support. So Mr. Wiseguy, can you calculate what is the percentage of Nikon after sales not able to service a manufacturing defect? First it seemed like Nikon sells defective product and then they can't fix it and made it worse in some cases. How to trust Nikon as a brand anymore? Even if it is 5%. It means 1 out of 20 people who buys Nikon will get this problem. 1 out of 20 is quite high.
Seriously, my trust in Nikon have taken a beating and I really want Nikon to help bring it back up and exceed it (if possible). And what you are saying isn't helping.
err... I don't think you work in the electronics industry.
3.4% is huge actually. And for this AF point issue, it should be caught by screening, ie the chance of this happening should be close to zero.
It all depends on what sort of tests nikon runs on every D800 before it leaves the factory and how easily the problem is caught. Does it problem shows up on every lens on the D800 or you need a specific kind of lens/body combi.
Ultimately, I think nikon should improve their screening process to screen out these issues.
Having said that I did a quick check to see how good my Left AF point is on my 35mm f1.4 focusing on an object 2m away... looks good. I don't think I shoot anything closer than that often so no worries.
The point of all that is, as Thom himself said, is that the numbers are probably below what is required to issue a service advisory (Which is probably why they are handling these on a case by case basis).
You have a right to test your camera before you buy. You have a right to choose a competing product if you are less than satisfied with the D800. And yes, some of those of who bought the camera and had the defect got them recalibrated at Nikon Service, as per reports in this forum and many others.
I bought mine knowing fully well that I MAY get one with an AF issue. Good that I didn't, but if I did get one with an issue, I'd simply have taken it to Nikon service and not run around crying that the sky is falling. It wouldn't have been the first iece of electronics I have taken in after purchase and it certainly won't be the last.
I said no such thing. In fact, I fully well said that this is a real issue. Read again.
You have a right to test your camera before you buy. You have a right to choose a competing product if you are less than satisfied with the D800. And yes, some of those of who bought the camera and had the defect got them recalibrated at Nikon Service, as per reports in this forum and many others.
I bought mine knowing fully well that I MAY get one with an AF issue. Good that I didn't, but if I did get one with an issue, I'd simply have taken it to Nikon service and not run around crying that the sky is falling. It wouldn't have been the first iece of electronics I have taken in after purchase and it certainly won't be the last.
I said no such thing. In fact, I fully well said that this is a real issue. Read again.
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